(last ever) turbo wash- Carbon not Clearing

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VitaMan
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(last ever) turbo wash- Carbon not Clearing

Post by VitaMan » Thu Nov 12, 2020 1:41 pm

OK, this is the last of the turbo, never again. I picked up some Kale and champagne yeast for the next run.

This time I fermented with carbon in the tub, after it was done I used Super-Kleer (kieselsol and chitosan). Same stuff and volume as Turbo Clear but half the price.

So I degassed thoroughly, added the kieselsol as directed, waited about 4 hours, then added the chitosan.

40 hours later, it is still not clear! Well only the top inch is clear.

I just carried it out to the patio. It is around 3 degrees C lately, so I am hoping the wash clears by tomorrow.

Anything else I can do? Rack it into jugs and wait for it to clear? I really want my fermenter to be available before the kale I bought goes bad.

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Re: (last ever) turbo wash- Carbon not Clearing

Post by jonnys_spirit » Thu Nov 12, 2020 1:45 pm

You can freeze the kale. I don't think it takes much. Super-Kleer usually works great on my wines if I even use it but I also sometimes start the ferment with a bentonite slurry.

Time is the best clearing agent.

Glad you're moving on from the turbo and charcoal dance. Better sooner than later.

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Re: (last ever) turbo wash- Carbon not Clearing

Post by VitaMan » Thu Nov 12, 2020 4:06 pm

jonnys_spirit wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 1:45 pm
You can freeze the kale. Glad you're moving on from the turbo and charcoal dance.
I don't eat kale, didn't know it could be frozen! Thanks!

Yeah, it has proven to be an expensive way to add extra steps in making low quality booze. Should have ditched it in the first place, but I am cheap enough that I wanted to use what came with the kit.

Lesson learned. High hopes for the kale wash :)

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Re: (last ever) turbo wash- Carbon not Clearing

Post by kimbodious » Thu Nov 12, 2020 5:40 pm

I freeze kale for use later on, You won’t even use that much kale 👍🏽 I use 50-80 grams per 24 litre wash. I vitamize the kale into a slurry before adding it to the fermenter
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Re: (last ever) turbo wash- Carbon not Clearing

Post by VitaMan » Thu Nov 12, 2020 6:59 pm

Into the freezer it goes, then.

Wow, that little will be enough yeast nutrition? I am only fermenting 10 litres. At 25-40 grams I could have enough kale to keep me going a long long time.

Funny story..I bought a big bag of "dorito" style corn chips at the same time. Cashier gave me quite a look.

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Re: (last ever) turbo wash- Carbon not Clearing

Post by VitaMan » Fri Nov 13, 2020 10:12 pm

It's hard to be patient when I want to start a *non-turbo* wash. Waiting for the one to clear, I started looking at carboys and buckets so I could start again.

Nope, not gonna spend any more money. I got reading, surfing, found a couple of quick 1-2 gallon IPA recipes which look like fun. That led me to some small wine recipes too. I recently saw organic apple juice on sale in heavy glass jugs. Spiced brandy during the winter festivities? Too soon in the hobby to try?

Hopefully not getting too far ahead of myself, I thought of:

Brewing 1 gal of sugar wash at a time, alternating weeks. The middle weeks would be distilling, cutting, and making beverages. This way I have time to think about what I did, read here, smell, taste, and begin the processes again more often.

Obviously this will be more work, but the frequent feedback loop might be worth it. Besides. I'm a newbie. When I screw up, it'll only be a gallon :lol: .

Once I figure I have a basis I can move on to bigger brews or small brandies while dreaming of someday having a still worthy of malt whisky.

Who am I kidding. Of course I got ahead of myself!

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Re: (last ever) turbo wash- Carbon not Clearing

Post by kimbodious » Sat Nov 14, 2020 12:30 am

you can never have too many fermenters, as long as the airlocks are sealed, you are good to go!
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Re: (last ever) turbo wash- Carbon not Clearing

Post by CopperFiend » Sat Nov 14, 2020 3:34 am

I never clear my washes, they all go in the pot soon after fermentation finishes. Sometimes I leave them for a few days in a cool spot to sediment out a little. I find it makes little difference to the finished spirit. I prefer to add as little unnatural stuff to my washes as possible.

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Re: (last ever) turbo wash- Carbon not Clearing

Post by Thebigbrewbowski » Sat Nov 14, 2020 4:58 pm

CopperFiend wrote:I never clear my washes, they all go in the pot soon after fermentation finishes. Sometimes I leave them for a few days in a cool spot to sediment out a little. I find it makes little difference to the finished spirit. I prefer to add as little unnatural stuff to my washes as possible.
I stopped clearing my wash a while back and it doesn't make a lick of difference if its being distilled, at least from my opinion.

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Re: (last ever) turbo wash- Carbon not Clearing

Post by CopperFiend » Sun Nov 15, 2020 1:29 am

Yep, I think it's a bad habit newbies get from George. I havent heard of any commercial Distilleries using any clearing agents (though I may be wrong).

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Re: (last ever) turbo wash- Carbon not Clearing

Post by VitaMan » Sun Nov 15, 2020 2:22 pm

Thanks everyone, this will be the last time I have to deal with such a mess.

One lady at the brew shop has an airstill and uses a turbo yeast. She said that sometimes after a few days of kieselsol/chitin she has to follow with polyclar. It was pretty cheap so I picked up enough for 23L, but I would rather save them for wine or beer.

I also picked up a used 23L wine juice pail with lid and a spigot that I will attach for beer or wine-making. Total $7 and all I have to do is drill a hole in the lid, add a grommet, drill a hole in the bucket, and add a spigot. Now I have more choice as to the size of brew I make and can always have one brewing.

It is the weekend and I don't want to sit on my rump so I racked the carbon-turbo wash into 2 smaller containers. There's room in the fridge for 1 at a time. There were a couple inches of sediment at the bottom of my fermenter.

One container is a bit grey, so it went into the fridge first. The other is blacker but light gets through it can sit in the fridge while I cook the first one.

Now it is time to wash/sanitize my gear and get moving on the Kale Wash :) I am aiming for somewhere in the vicinity of 10-12% ABV in my wash so I figure about

25-30g Kale
2 kilos sugar
Water to 10L volume.
5gm packet of champagne yeast, re-hydrated

Do I need an acid? My local water hovers around pH7.5 to pH 7.8
Last edited by VitaMan on Sun Nov 15, 2020 9:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: (last ever) turbo wash- Carbon not Clearing

Post by StillerBoy » Sun Nov 15, 2020 3:27 pm

VitaMan wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 2:22 pm
25-30g Kale
2 kilos sugar
Water to 10L volume.
5gm packet of champagne yeast, re-hydrated

Do I need an acid? My local water hovers around pH7.5 to pH 7.8
2K of sugar is pushing the upper level of a good sugar wash.. anything above 154 gr/l or 1.5K is making it a very unhealthy environment for the yeast.. and you don't mention any ingredients (food for the yeast), so the lack of ingredients will also stress the yeast.. kale will not provide the necessary ingredient on its own, as it provide mainly a flavor, to provide a good fermenting environment as it's mainly a sugar wash.. as to the Ph, yes it will require attention, again, it's a sugar wash, and sugar wash are known for creating an acidic environment..

A stable Ph of 4 - 4.5 within the first 10 and 24 hr. mark along with a stable temp is required.. as to using 5 gr of a champagne yeast, it will be a slow start if only re-hydrated, unless is it pitched at 80 - 85*F temp.. also it would be best to re-hydrated for 15 min then an equal amount of wash added to the re-hydrated yeast to make it into a starter, and allow to work for another 20 - 30 min, will help greatly in starting the fermentation, and pitched at about 80*F and maintained at that temp..

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Re: (last ever) turbo wash- Carbon not Clearing

Post by VitaMan » Sun Nov 15, 2020 3:58 pm

Uh oh- I was under the impression that kale would provide the nitrogen etc, and I started it. So much to learn!

On hand I have epsom salt, oranges, diced tomatoes, that's about it.

I will have to wait until tomorrow to get DAP. Can my wash wait that long?

How long can they go on a big chopped up navel orange?

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Re: (last ever) turbo wash- Carbon not Clearing

Post by kimbodious » Sun Nov 15, 2020 6:04 pm

Googe’s Goo (kale wash) Recipe (for a 24 litre pail)
80 grams kale
5 kg sugar
Yeast

my variation
the sugar used is raw sugar
I use 1/3rd cup Baker’s Yeast
I add 1/4 cup crushed oyster shell for pH buffering

I have made dozens of this recipe

You don’t add DAP with this recipe, the kale provides the micronutrients.
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Re: (last ever) turbo wash- Carbon not Clearing

Post by VitaMan » Sun Nov 15, 2020 8:54 pm

kimbodious wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 6:04 pm
I have made dozens of this recipe.... You don’t add DAP with this recipe, the kale provides the micronutrients.
:) GREAT! My initial understanding was correct after all. And it means that I don't have to go get anything else.

From reading here, this recipe is obviously a favourite among many experienced members for its clean taste. I went back and reread the kale wash discussions and didn't see much mention of additional ingredients. When I read that the kale was "just for flavouring", I thought "It better NOT be!" Not a kale fan LOL

I did end up juicing an orange and throwing that in thinking it would lower the pH slightly. I remember reading that they like it slightly acidic. I also re-hydrated and pitched a second packet of EC1118. Still only 10 grams dry yeast for a 10L wash, so it might be slow. Not in a hurry, I still have the turbo carbon mess clearing, then distill, distill, and distill again. By the time that's all done the kale wash will be close to ready.

Hmm, we have some calcium carbonate pills that were purchased by mistake. I could throw a few in next time. But that yeast does tolerate pretty low ph before getting stressed.

I should compare the cost of baker's yeast. I'm only aiming for 10-12% ABV, so maybe I don't need champagne yeast.

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Re: (last ever) turbo wash- Carbon not Clearing

Post by VitaMan » Sun Nov 15, 2020 9:37 pm

CopperFiend wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 1:29 am
I haven't heard of any commercial Distilleries using any clearing agents (though I may be wrong).
I have seen videos, slideshows, and pdf's from the manufacturers of Polyclar and others which are clearly aimed at large scale brewers and food producers, but I think I heard mention of spirits. Of course that's marketing material trying to extend their reach and might not have anything to do with the actual practice of mass production.

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Re: (last ever) turbo wash- Carbon not Clearing

Post by NZChris » Mon Nov 16, 2020 12:08 am

It'll be clear after you run it twice. I've just finished stripping and spirit running a muddy looking sugar wash with no effort put into clarifying it. It's nice product and tastes like it will make fine gin or vodka.

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Re: (last ever) turbo wash- Carbon not Clearing

Post by Rrmuf » Mon Nov 16, 2020 5:03 am

SOrry: What is the purpose of the kale? Is it just a nutrient?
-- Rrmuf

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Re: (last ever) turbo wash- Carbon not Clearing

Post by still_stirrin » Mon Nov 16, 2020 5:49 am

Rrmuf wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 5:03 am
SOrry: What is the purpose of the kale? Is it just a nutrient?
https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtop ... 2#p7145861
Attention new distillers: Cranky's spoon feed info
My LM/VM & Potstill: My build thread
My Cadco hotplate modification thread: Hotplate Build
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My 5-grain Bourbon recipe: Special K

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Re: (last ever) turbo wash- Carbon not Clearing

Post by Rrmuf » Mon Nov 16, 2020 6:16 am

still_stirrin wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 5:49 am
Rrmuf wrote:
Mon Nov 16, 2020 5:03 am
SOrry: What is the purpose of the kale? Is it just a nutrient?
https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtop ... 2#p7145861
Thanks!
-- Rrmuf

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Re: (last ever) turbo wash- Carbon not Clearing

Post by VitaMan » Mon Nov 16, 2020 11:07 am

Getting just a little activity @ 18 hour, probably because of the small amount of yeast.

I think it will be better to buy yeast in to 500gm bricks and be more generous when I pitch.

Gotta say, I love the colour, very sci-fi / fantasy. Think I might call it "Dr Who Booze" After a few tipples, it might be so...

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Re: (last ever) turbo wash- Carbon not Clearing

Post by VitaMan » Mon Nov 16, 2020 11:15 am

Back to the turbo carbon wash. The first jug has settled enough to run it, but I might wait for the second jug, combine them, just to have a consistent wash to compare the copper and non-copper runs fairly.

Other than learning and experimenting, it would be nice if I end up with something drinkable.

I am going to get in the practice of saving my feints and heads like many others here do, add what I distilled from the first turbo wash, and run again. Less wasteful, for sure, but at 2-3 hours per 4 litres of wash in an air still, don't know if the return will be worth it. Some day if I can fit a reflux system it will probably be worth it.

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Re: (last ever) turbo wash- Carbon not Clearing

Post by VitaMan » Wed Nov 18, 2020 5:51 pm

I ran the wash, distilled it twice. Used copper. The carbon made a big difference, but not enough to do it again unless I am desperate. It turned out to be a lot of work, with extra steps and costly components.

I have a jar of acceptable liquor, diluted and dripping through a carbon filter, another jar of "lets see after filtering" and a jar of "haven't decided if its worth filtering"

I stopped collecting the last jar when it was dripping 35%. Should have stopped earlier. Next time I will be available to swap small jars and begin learning how to cut.

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Re: (last ever) turbo wash- Carbon not Clearing

Post by NZChris » Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:27 pm

Learn how to select a heart cut from a series of jars before you try to learn how to cut 'on the fly'. The hearts are easily identified and don't really need to be collected in small increments to be able to make fine product, but smallish jars should be used at both ends of the distillation to find the cut points.

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Re: (last ever) turbo wash- Carbon not Clearing

Post by VitaMan » Thu Nov 19, 2020 11:33 am

NZChris wrote:
Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:27 pm
Learn how to select a heart cut from a series of jars before you try to learn how to cut 'on the fly'. The hearts are easily identified and don't really need to be collected in small increments to be able to make fine product, but smallish jars should be used at both ends of the distillation to find the cut points.
Thanks NZChris.

When my kale wash is ready to be distilled, I will do that. It seems that the copper made the quality changes much clearer, making me think that the sulphurs are partly to blame for blurring the changes.

Still figuring out how to get a good wash though... looks like my kale wash has stalled. Could be not enough yeast, as you mentioned before. I picked up a few more packets and will make a proper starter before pitching.

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Re: (last ever) turbo wash- Carbon not Clearing

Post by VitaMan » Fri Nov 20, 2020 6:08 pm

I was not expecting this. A family member alerted me that the fermenter spilled all over. When I looked, it appears that it had foamed big time, and there was yeast all over the place. I figured I better leave it alone, so I just rinsed of the lid and made sure that gas can get out and cleaned the general area.

The wash is white, I hope that means that there's lots of activity going on. A few days will tell.

In the meantime I am enjoying gin and vermouth, both from essences. The second jar is getting a second pass through a new carbon filter in hopes that it will be good enough make liqueur with some frozen blackberries. If not, I have still have 500ml of spirit left from the first jar.

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Re: (last ever) turbo wash- Carbon not Clearing

Post by CopperFiend » Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:56 am

If you can do it properly with reflux and make a decent neutral with tight heart cuts, you should never need to filter 'to make it good enough'.

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Re: (last ever) turbo wash- Carbon not Clearing

Post by VitaMan » Sat Nov 21, 2020 11:52 am

CopperFiend wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 2:56 am
If you can do it properly with reflux and make a decent neutral with tight heart cuts, you should never need to filter 'to make it good enough'.
Copper in the basket of my air-still is as close as I can come to reflux at the moment, not very close. Until I can get a better still, I guess I will have to focus on clean washes and learning to make cuts.

It was the second jar, with lots of tails that I filtered twice. Helped, but not enough. It smells better than it did, but I don't really like the taste. Is it worth diluting it and running it through the still again? Or will those nasty elements follow?

Thankfully, the second distillation and filtering rendered 1.5 litres of 40% usable spirits. But considering I started with 10L of wash, did 2 stripping runs and a spirit run just for =2 bottles of booze, the yield was not good. Learned a lot, learned how little I know, so that is all good.

I have read people saying the kale wash gave decent spirits without a second distillation, which means I could get 3+ bottles out of a 10l wash.

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Re: (last ever) turbo wash- Carbon not Clearing

Post by kimbodious » Sat Nov 21, 2020 1:25 pm

64374A56-0B97-416D-8202-963EC9359E84.jpeg
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Re: (last ever) turbo wash- Carbon not Clearing

Post by VitaMan » Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:49 pm

kimbodious wrote:
Sat Nov 21, 2020 1:25 pm
64374A56-0B97-416D-8202-963EC9359E84.jpeg
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Thanks Kimbodious! :D

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