two threads on cuts

[Phathead]

I have read the thread on making better cuts about dilution and makes good sense. I also read a thread about someone asking about making cuts by another method. while some heated discussion ensued there was some resolution to it also. one sentence stood out to me in the whole thread "I don't know what good is".

here is why that stuck out so much to me.

I'm just now getting into this and some sugar runs under my belt shooting for nuterul so hey if it don't taste or smell I'm getting close. easier target to identify.

fast forward and I just completed my first ag run with slow drip and mash in my thumper.i collected and cut per the method on here. I have to say it was difficult and I have probably made to wide of a cut and mix but I'm a learning.

here is where that sentence stuck out. I sniffed and tasted and spit. tasted sniffed and spit. sniffed sipped swirled spit, on and on. while i have read on here or watched on you tube i dont know a -mouthy feel, bite, hint of, etc. while i love and have comsumed my share of bourban, whiskey, ryes etc sipping one called TN waltz as I type. finished a bottle of high rye malt not long ago. I enjoyed four roses and so on. I have never drunk none of it white. always off the shelf out of a barrel from somewhere.

no real questions to this post or life altering wisdom, just a observation from a newbie trying to learn what to oak and make good drinking and I can say I made that.

[SassyFrass]

Good cuts are one of the hardest areas of making likker, for most folks. Everyone is looking for a simplified way to make cuts: temp, abv, etc... Problem is, none of those work. But many people insist on doing it that way. More power to them. They ain't gotta please me. The only one the have to please is themselves.
Cuts, in my mind, are this simple. It's what I like and think taste good. That simple. I'll collect in small jars, usually half pint ( but I have used baby food jars), line them up 1 to 11 (example), let them rest at least 24 hours, then start at the middle. I keep the ones I like (or the ones I think are interesting) and the rest go into the feints jug. It's that simple.
Other folks will talk about notes of this or that, flavors on the front or back end, this, that or the other. I'm just after something that taste good and its usually better than what's in the store. Besides I ain't making likker for other folks, so my tastebuds are the ones I gotta please.
But yes, folks can get wrapped a little tight about cuts, and other things too. But IMO, cuts are completely personal, and each person will experience the taste differently than you or me or anyone else.
As long as you are having fun and being safe, go with it. The only one you gotta please is yourself.
SF

[Saltbush Bill]

It takes practice...the more you do it the easier it gets. Always remember to cut small samples back 50-50 with water.....makes it easier to smell/ taste what is what. Don't be scared to get some on your hands and rub hard as your smelling, different smells come through as your rubbing and the spirit drys.

[n_plains_drifter]

Howdy Phathead,
I'm new and learning cuts too. I've had more luck finding tails with grain based beer. Sugar washes seem to ferment cleaner and the tails aren't as pungent.
I run a pretty basic pot, so I'm bringing lots of flavor forward. If you run your spirit run down to 20% or so, you may get 'islands' of oil on the surface, or some jars may get cloudy. Those will probably smell of tails. Taste those to get a distinct flavor profile. Once you get a couple of experience points, you'll be able to pick them up pretty regular.

Then you can determine if you want that in your finished product.

Best, Drifter

[Bushman]

As mentioned cuts take a lot of practice and development. When I first started I collected a small amount in each vessel and lined them up from left to right in the order I collected them. After airing for several days I started in the middle knowing that it would be in the hearts and that taste was a measuring point. If you taste each jar your senses will be num. So I tasted every other one. From the middle I would go two to the right of center then two to the left. If they tasted good then I knew the ones between them were also good. Continue with this method working your way out. When first starting it is hard not to keep deep into the heads and tails but as soon as you are tighter on your cuts looking for quality and not quantity the better your final product.
Also when sampling for taste, touch, and smell take very small samples again so as not to dull your senses. I also had my wife do it with me when I first started to get a second opinion.

[NZChris]

If I tasted every jar, my taste buds would be buggered before I finished.

The jars with the least aroma can be safely combined without tasting them as they will always make the heart cut, (many do that during the run to save on jars). Identify them and make a sample to taste at roughly 35%. Taste it to check you got that right.

Add to the sample from the jars at each end until you find the jars that definitely should not be included.

I don't go to the trouble of getting every sample to exactly 35%. Using a small ladle made out of a bent spoon, I measure out the liquor and water using a calculator if it's too complicated to do in my head. To make it easier, the abvs are written on the jars as I take them off the still.

[ErnieV]

To make it easier, the abvs are written on the jars as I take them off the still.

Great idea that. I'm going to use that in my next batch.

[Phathead]

As mentioned cuts take a lot of practice and development. When I first started I collected a small amount in each vessel and lined them up from left to right in the order I collected them. After airing for several days I started in the middle knowing that it would be in the hearts and that taste was a measuring point. If you taste each jar your senses will be num. So I tasted every other one. From the middle I would go two to the right of center then two to the left. If they tasted good then I knew the ones between them were also good. Continue with this method working your way out. When first starting it is hard not to keep deep into the heads and tails but as soon as you are tighter on your cuts looking for quality and not quantity the better your final product.
Also when sampling for taste, touch, and smell take very small samples again so as not to dull your senses. I also had my wife do it with me when I first started to get a second opinion.

I did the dilution method and still struggled in the middle and low middle (higher proof). upper jar numbers or lower proof however i tasted more differences and kept more of it tails area.i was down in some cloudy but thought the taste was better.

I found my break point on it. went to put in barrel last night (one of those little Amazon barrels) and the taste while white did nothing exciting for me. just have to wait and see what aging does. I'm going to mash the same recipe this weekend then run a thumper stripping and then spirt run with thumper. while its sorta fresh in memory see if i can find differences in the cuts from previous to the current.

[Phathead]

Howdy Phathead,
I'm new and learning cuts too. I've had more luck finding tails with grain based beer. Sugar washes seem to ferment cleaner and the tails aren't as pungent.
I run a pretty basic pot, so I'm bringing lots of flavor forward. If you run your spirit run down to 20% or so, you may get 'islands' of oil on the surface, or some jars may get cloudy. Those will probably smell of tails. Taste those to get a distinct flavor profile. Once you get a couple of experience points, you'll be able to pick them up pretty regular.

Then you can determine if you want that in your finished product.

Best, Drifter

yep I saw the oil and the start of that and a little above is where I found more of what I think will taste good aged. like others have posted on this thread lot of are new and learning it just stuck out that I like what I like and call it good Brown. I have no idea what is good and will be better with aging while white.
how's the saying " you can't know what you don't know" . I'll just a yet to the end. mash distill and go again, lol.

[Phathead]

If I tasted every jar, my taste buds would be buggered before I finished.

The jars with the least aroma can be safely combined without tasting them as they will always make the heart cut, (many do that during the run to save on jars). Identify them and make a sample to taste at roughly 35%. Taste it to check you got that right.

Add to the sample from the jars at each end until you find the jars that definitely should not be included.

I don't go to the trouble of getting every sample to exactly 35%. Using a small ladle made out of a bent spoon, I measure out the liquor and water using a calculator if it's too complicated to do in my head. To make it easier, the abvs are written on the jars as I take them off the still.

you kindly hit what I'm talking about in a sense. I stayed away from the last cpl jars either end. everything else had some kind of taste, just couldn't decide if it was good or bad and what would it do oaked. but hopefully I get there.

[Bushman]

I did the dilution method and still struggled in the middle and low middle (higher proof). upper jar numbers or lower proof however i tasted more differences and kept more of it tails area.i was down in some cloudy but thought the taste was better.

Sounds like your doing it right it just takes time to develop a taste for it. One suggestion is if your not sure don’t add it but collect all the feints and add them to your next run.

[Phathead]

I did the dilution method and still struggled in the middle and low middle (higher proof). upper jar numbers or lower proof however i tasted more differences and kept more of it tails area.i was down in some cloudy but thought the taste was better.

Sounds like your doing it right it just takes time to develop a taste for it. One suggestion is if your not sure don’t add it but collect all the feints and add them to your next run.

that's where I think I may have made to wide of a cut. I added some on their own was sorta what I thought should be may not have played well in the big pool and should went to feints jar. I barreled any way can't pull it back out now. not afraid to try things and not gonna bitch for my own screw ups. I'll either run it into a netrual, kill weeds, or something with it if comes out rough in few months. or who knows may leave and see if I live long enough for it turn into something drinkable, lol.

[Phathead]

I also had my wife do it with me when I first started to get a second opinion.

funny you mention the wife. I have mine smell the neutrals when I run and that's how I cut it. she had moonshine few times and got real bad hung over from it once. so she sniffs for "shine smell" and I cull any that has it. don't really know what it is she smells cause where she smells it is up and down the whole run. I just keep the no smellers, her words lol, and rerun the rest later.