Can I be milling too fine?

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Justinthunder
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Can I be milling too fine?

Post by Justinthunder »

My first rye is fermented and was waiting to be filtered. My last few corn and barley mashes I feel had more liquid in it. This time I dialed back the corn and added rye, the mash was very thick from top to bottom and hasn’t been touched in a week and a half. It instantly clogged and ruined my cheese cloth then I spent the next half hour pouring it jug by jug into my double mesh strainer and swishing my hand around. My hand are more wrinkly now than an elephants nuts. I am 100% going to be filtering this a second time. Could I be milling my corn and grains too fine, should it be chunked instead of powderized?
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zed255
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Re: Can I be milling too fine?

Post by zed255 »

It's a trade off. A more coarse grind is easier to strain or lauter but will give poorer conversion efficiency. A finer grind will be almost impossible to strain or lauter but will be much more efficient.

Also, rye is a sticky grain and may benefit from using some SebFlo enzyme to break down the glucans.
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Justinthunder
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Re: Can I be milling too fine?

Post by Justinthunder »

Oh okay thanks, my second filter went way better only some particles, I will filter it a third time tomorrow going into the still. My mash is cold now because my wife made me do it on the tile in the cold mud room, I will have to bring it in the house tonight, I’m also on her shit list for smelling the house like a brewery and washing my buckets and garbage can in the tub 😂 I was told this is an outside summer hobby.
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zed255
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Re: Can I be milling too fine?

Post by zed255 »

Make her something using you new hobby she likes and she might warm up to it. My wife was unsure at first, now she helps out.
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Justinthunder
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Re: Can I be milling too fine?

Post by Justinthunder »

She pretty much only drinks jacobs creek moscato and vodka on the rare occasion, you may be on to something there, thanks for the tips Zed, I googled that enzyme and it’s been discussed here a lot and I feel you have definitely put me on the right path, I will be searching all the brew stores around me for that.
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zed255
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Re: Can I be milling too fine?

Post by zed255 »

You can get reasonable amounts from enzymash.biz, no affiliation. They have the trio of enzymes, high temp alpha, Gluco and the sebflo. All are nice to have in your tool kit.
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Justinthunder
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Re: Can I be milling too fine?

Post by Justinthunder »

zed255 wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 5:49 pm You can get reasonable amounts from enzymash.biz, no affiliation. They have the trio of enzymes, high temp alpha, Gluco and the sebflo. All are nice to have in your tool kit.
I checked them out today and they have shut down and it’s a new site, you can only buy 10kg or 25kg and the 10kg is 175$ plus 75 for shipping and I’m assuming that’s American so that’s about 320$ cad, that’s a lot of cash lol
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zed255
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Re: Can I be milling too fine?

Post by zed255 »

Bummer. I bought a quart of each some time ago, I didn't realize it changed.
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Re: Can I be milling too fine?

Post by Demy »

You have to find the right compromise based on your process and equipment. Fine grinding generally helps the enzymes and you are more efficient, the trick I think is to have enough raw peels in the mash. When I make my beer I have an average of 85% efficiency, with peaks of over 90% but you have to grind quite finely otherwise you won't get there. With ingredients other than just barley there are other factors at play.
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Re: Can I be milling too fine?

Post by Justinthunder »

Well after calling around to a ton of home brew stores and distilleries today no one uses or carries that enzyme here in Canada, but I did get some helpful advice from one of my local distilleries. They said they use rice hulls, they said they don’t affect any kind of sugar or starch or ph or anything in your mash. You don’t need to minus any corn or rye or barley either, you just add it on top of what you use for a mash bill. I will definitely be trying this next time and hope this may help any other Canadians out there who have issues with rye and can’t get the kind of stuff Americans can get.
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Re: Can I be milling too fine?

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zed255 wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 4:58 pm It's a trade off. A more coarse grind is easier to strain or lauter but will give poorer conversion efficiency. A finer grind will be almost impossible to strain or lauter but will be much more efficient.

Also, rye is a sticky grain and may benefit from using some SebFlo enzyme to break down the glucans.
Yeah not to be dismissive of the importance of the actual juice, but on the pro side of the world almost everything about running a legal distillery cost more than the actual juice haha.
Notwithstanding the fact that hobby guys don't have to consider labor,,,if you didn't have the best tools for the job, I personally would prefer to keep the processing as labor friendly as possible.
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Re: Can I be milling too fine?

Post by Dancing4dan »

Hey Thunder, did you find a local source for rice hulls?
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Re: Can I be milling too fine?

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Justinthunder wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 11:58 am Well after calling around to a ton of home brew stores and distilleries today no one uses or carries that enzyme here in Canada, but I did get some helpful advice from one of my local distilleries. They said they use rice hulls, they said they don’t affect any kind of sugar or starch or ph or anything in your mash. You don’t need to minus any corn or rye or barley either, you just add it on top of what you use for a mash bill. I will definitely be trying this next time and hope this may help any other Canadians out there who have issues with rye and can’t get the kind of stuff Americans can get.
Company out in BC used to have them. I'll try and dig out the link for you.
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Re: Can I be milling too fine?

Post by Expat »

Dancing4dan wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 4:28 pm Hey Thunder, did you find a local source for rice hulls?
Every HB store i've been to has these, If you're near Toronto I could recommend a place.
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Re: Can I be milling too fine?

Post by Justinthunder »

Expat wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 4:38 pm
Dancing4dan wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 4:28 pm Hey Thunder, did you find a local source for rice hulls?
Every HB store i've been to has these, If you're near Toronto I could recommend a place.
Thanks but like 3 of the closer HB stores here sell the rice hulls, I will have no problem getting them, I just acquired 10 kg of white wheat and 5 kg of Vienna barley and 5kg on Munich barley, I am very excited to start brewing some more in march
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Re: Can I be milling too fine?

Post by Expat »

Expat wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 4:37 pm
Justinthunder wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 11:58 am Well after calling around to a ton of home brew stores and distilleries today no one uses or carries that enzyme here in Canada, but I did get some helpful advice from one of my local distilleries. They said they use rice hulls, they said they don’t affect any kind of sugar or starch or ph or anything in your mash. You don’t need to minus any corn or rye or barley either, you just add it on top of what you use for a mash bill. I will definitely be trying this next time and hope this may help any other Canadians out there who have issues with rye and can’t get the kind of stuff Americans can get.
Company out in BC used to have them. I'll try and dig out the link for you.
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Re: Can I be milling too fine?

Post by Justinthunder »

Thanks expat but that’s from 2018 and after a scan through the site they no longer sell either. I will just try and use rice hulls next time I use rye, I read that wheat tends to do the same so I may throw some in with my next wheat batch.
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Re: Can I be milling too fine?

Post by Expat »

Justinthunder wrote: Tue Jan 12, 2021 5:14 pm Thanks expat but that’s from 2018 and after a scan through the site they no longer sell either. I will just try and use rice hulls next time I use rye, I read that wheat tends to do the same so I may throw some in with my next wheat batch.
They never had the product on their webpage. Just email them, they get back quickly.
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Re: Can I be milling too fine?

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zed255 wrote: Sat Jan 09, 2021 4:58 pm It's a trade off. A more coarse grind is easier to strain or lauter but will give poorer conversion efficiency. A finer grind will be almost impossible to strain or lauter but will be much more efficient.
I used to strip cloudy bourbon ferments but after getting aged yeast notes I now clear my squeezed on-grain ferments in a conical. By enlarging the screen holes in my hammer mill to produce a slightly coarser grind, I still get the same conversion efficiency, but less custard to have to deal with.

With proper corn mash temps along with the use of HTL, even coarse meal will convert fully.
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Re: Can I be milling too fine?

Post by The Baker »

If I remember right we got a medium bale of rice hulls from the garden shop.
Mulched the soil with them and you should have seen the weeds that came up!

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