Vapor escaping from liebig output

[chilimies]

Have struggled for several hours to gather the foreshots of the sacrificial alcohol run. (my first ever alcohol run)

- 17 liter 14% abv sugar wash
- 3000W element with scr controller
- ccvm with a 100cm(40") long 22mm (3/4") over 15mm (1/2") liebig
- coolant water output at 16C / 60F

I'm running at almost lowest possible scr settings at 2A and 230V

not getting drops but vapor:

Is the liebig really this bad? Or should I have had wider inner pipe for the condenser? I know vapor speed increases when the pipe diameter decreases right?

[chilimies]

It actually seems like the vapor output has ended. Now there are actually drops coming without the vapor. Could it have been something to not worry about?

[greggn]

I'm running at almost lowest possible scr settings at 2A and 230V

What's your boiler temperature ? At only 2A, I'm doubtful that you're creating any meaningful volume of vapor. That's why it's taking so long ... the wash isn't boiling.

[ismbardbrunel123]

Your using about 480 watts...your lucky to get what your getting...

[chilimies]

What's your boiler temperature ? At only 2A, I'm doubtful that you're creating any meaningful volume of vapor. That's why it's taking so long ... the wash isn't boiling.

Boiler was somewhere around 60c or 140f

But the point was.. I would not like to have vapors escaping condenser and not liquifying.

Anyway, I am now running at 4 amps without any vapor problems. Somehow the problem only existed while taking fores.

[zed255]

Several hours for foreshots? I might spend up to an hour at drip rate getting to worst crap out, but something is awry. Your heat input seems low for what you show of the rig. My small pot still takes 500W to get fores and early heads to flow, my keg based reflux set-up takes about 1kW to do anything meaningful. You may be approaching the process with sooo much caution you are actually going nowhere. The vapour actually looks like a fine mist to me, vapour would billow out and become visible a short ways off the spout rather than literally pouring out the spout as you show. Does it feel cool / cold?

[shadylane]

It actually seems like the vapor output has ended. Now there are actually drops coming without the vapor. Could it have been something to not worry about?

Don't know exactly what causes it.
but I've seen the same thing before.

[zed255]

What's your boiler temperature ? At only 2A, I'm doubtful that you're creating any meaningful volume of vapor. That's why it's taking so long ... the wash isn't boiling.

Boiler was somewhere around 60c or 140f

But the point was.. I would not like to have vapors escaping condenser and not liquifying.

Anyway, I am now running at 4 amps without any vapor problems. Somehow the problem only existed while taking fores.

Are you trying to run by temperature? If so, you are going at the process the wrong way around. The charge in the boiler must, er, boil or else you will get virtually nowhere.

[Yummyrum]

Think it was Zapata suggested in a recent thread that it was most probably CO2 being released from the wash as it is heated .
I tend to agree with this idea

[chilimies]

Several hours for foreshots? I might spend up to an hour at drip rate getting to worst crap out, but something is awry. Your heat input seems low for what you show of the rig. My small pot still takes 500W to get fores and early heads to flow, my keg based reflux set-up takes about 1kW to do anything meaningful. You may be approaching the process with sooo much caution you are actually going nowhere. The vapour actually looks like a fine mist to me, vapour would billow out and become visible a short ways off the spout rather than literally pouring out the spout as you show. Does it feel cool / cold?

Several hours meaning I was being very cautious as it was my first alcohol run ever. Had to cut out power every time I saw vapor coming out, for safety reasons.

Indeed it seemed like it was more like mist than vapor - couldn't really decide how warm it was.

Think it was Zapata suggested in a recent thread that it was most probably CO2 being released from the wash as it is heated .
I tend to agree with this idea

Interesting...

Also, I couldnt make the vapor condense on a mirror.

Are you trying to run by temperature? If so, you are going at the process the wrong way around. The charge in the boiler must, er, boil or else you will get virtually nowhere.

I'm not really running by temperature, I was just checking boiler (outside) temperature to see where I was going.

[OtisT]

Looks like a scorch to me. Something burning off of the element.

Otis

[kimbodious]

I agree with the CO2 suggestion and in a very cool distilling location

[Dancing4dan]

I see the same thing at times before flow starts. The CO2 thing is a possibility. Hadn’t thought of that.

Once you do a couple slow runs you will have a good idea of how your still will run. Both of mine behave a little differently. Thermometers are frowned on here but I found I learned a lot using a pot thermometer and a column head thermometer initially.

Now it runs without one because I know what to expect.

[shadylane]

Looks like a scorch to me. Something burning off of the element.

Otis

Based on my limited experience
Scorch smoke rises and stinks.
I'd go with the CO2 theory

[Chauncey]

Yea if its vapor its gonna be hot. It could be condenser fog from a cool location while everything was heating up. I get a tonne of condenser fog when its cold out

[cranky]

Do you know what the temperature and humidity were inside the room you were running it in?

I run into that frequently, mostly when the temp is cool and humidity is high.

[Yummyrum]

Think it was Zapata suggested in a recent thread that it was most probably CO2 being released from the wash as it is heated .
I tend to agree with this idea

Sorry Zap , it was setsumi
https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtop ... 0#p7650130

[shadylane]

Somebody hold my beer, while I go fitch a lighter.
If there's still hair on the back of my hand, when I wake up in the morning
it was CO2 not alcohol vapor

[Chauncey]

Do you know what the temperature and humidity were inside the room you were running it in?

I run into that frequently, mostly when the temp is cool and humidity is high.

The worst ive seen it is from my most efficient condensers when it was 39F with 77% humidity right before christmas

Shotgun w cold tap water in high humidity at 68F will condenser fog here even. It always freaks me out but it looks like breath steam floats up and isnt hot.

[Yummyrum]

Somebody hold my beer, while I go fitch a lighter.
If there's still hair on the back of my hand, when I wake up in the morning
it was CO2 not alcohol vapor

Hee Hee shady , was thinking the same . Just light it . LOL

Collect some in a test tube , take it to another room . Does it put the flame out or go pop .

In this case , I’m guessing it gonna put the flame out .... but ... wouldn’t want to get it wrong .

Don’t blame OP for being over cautious . P

[Demy]

I got that effect when I burned some fruit pulp for my brandy .. I don't know if this is the case for you. Did you by any chance notice a burning smell?

[chilimies]

Do you know what the temperature and humidity were inside the room you were running it in?

I run into that frequently, mostly when the temp is cool and humidity is high.

Inside temperature is 23c (73f) and its not very humid.

I got that effect when I burned some fruit pulp for my brandy .. I don't know if this is the case for you. Did you by any chance notice a burning smell?

I was using just plain sugar wash here... Did not notice any burning smells, only acetone or nail polish smell since it was during the fores.

Collect some in a test tube , take it to another room . Does it put the flame out or go pop .

In this case , I’m guessing it gonna put the flame out .... but ... wouldn’t want to get it wrong .

Don’t blame OP for being over cautious . P

This actually sounds interesting to test