Stream at Liebig Exit

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Re: Stream at Liebig Exit

Post by Yummyrum »

dunluce wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 2:51 pm Isn't this the simplest solution?


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Re: Stream at Liebig Exit

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dunluce wrote: Thu Feb 18, 2021 2:51 pm Isn't this the simplest solution?


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Love it :thumbup:
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Re: Stream at Liebig Exit

Post by fzbwfk9r »

wouldn't using a coon's pecker make your spirit taste like piss?
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Re: Stream at Liebig Exit

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I take a copper scrubby shove it up in the end of the liebig, then pull/stretch the ends down to a taper a d twist them pointing straight toward the jar.

This does 4 things,
A. Helps slow.down vapor velocity moving through the condenser.
B. Directs the stream of distillate exactly where I want it
C. Acts as a buffer that keeps my distillate stream size/speed very consisten. Because the scrubby has like a capillary action, it soaks up excess distillate and releases it too, acting as a sort of muffler or governor.
D. Is puts more copper in my distillate path which I am sure does absolutely nothing, but it makes me feel good.


BTW, I have been off the forum for quite some time. Glad to see all the same faces on here waxing eloquent and such! :lol:
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Re: Stream at Liebig Exit

Post by Hügelwilli »

Hillbilly Popstar wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 4:07 am A. Helps slow.down vapor velocity moving through the condenser.
Sure?
The still is producing 50ml/min distillate and out of the condenser is coming only 25ml/min? :yawn:
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Re: Stream at Liebig Exit

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Hügelwilli wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 4:15 am
Hillbilly Popstar wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 4:07 am A. Helps slow.down vapor velocity moving through the condenser.
Sure?
The still is producing 50ml/min distillate and out of the condenser is coming only 25ml/min? :yawn:
No. The still is producing 50ml/min and 50ml/min is coming out of the condenser, but the extended contact time means that the condenser is running more efficiently.

Vapour speed is only partially related to take-off speed. If I swap out my 2" column for a 4" column but change nothing else, the vapour speed will be around 1/8th, but the take-off speed will remain the same. :D
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Re: Stream at Liebig Exit

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I agree with Hillbilly popstar .

Shuffing a bit if scrubber up the Liebig output does pretty much exactly as he says .

Its a quick fix for Huffing , directs the flow into the jug and evens the flow ( which is probably due to helping with huffing )

Sometimes I do it , sometimes I don’t . If I can control the flow by adjusting coolant flow then thats good enough .

Sometimes a scrubber up the spout helps where nothing else will .

What I don’t like about it , is that it has the potential to create a plug if the boiler has solids and pukes . .
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Re: Stream at Liebig Exit

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Well a copper scrubber densely rolled up to squeeze into a 3/4" pipe ends up being around 6" long.

So my theory is, this creates an ever so small amount of back pressure. And if it does create a small amount of back pressure, then the entire vapor path should not o ly have a lower velocity, but have denser vapor as well.
But what the hell do I know... the fact remains it a damn effective way of making sure the distillate has super consistent laminar flow coming out of the liebig.

But yeah, as Yummy said, if you get a puke, you gotta pull the scrubbie out and clean it. But in the case of puking, that's the least of your problems.
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Re: Stream at Liebig Exit

Post by still_stirrin »

Hillbilly Popstar wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 4:36 am So my theory is, this creates an ever so small amount of back pressure. And if it does create a small amount of back pressure, then the entire vapor path should not o ly have a lower velocity, but have denser vapor as well.

But what the hell do I know...
Well, “back pressure” is NOT what you want to happen. For one thing, it would cause an increase in the boiler temperature, and you know what that does … brings over more water with your alcohol, lowering the “proof at the spout”.

And another thing, a “plugging” of the airway does not slow the vapor down, it causes it to accelerate, because the mass flow will be the same and you’ve reduced the flow area by the space occupied by the plug. Surprisingly, as the velocity increases, the vapor’s density will decrease and this results in a decrease in the static pressure (again, due to the laws of physics, the “Ideal Gas Law”).

But what it does do is increase the conducting surface in the spout into which a hot vapor or a cold air inrush might lose it’s heat (or cold energy) to. This creates a “thermal dampening” such that the temperature is more consistent with the condensate that is trying to drip through the scrubby. This is how a little copper scrubby helps to stabilize huffing or puffing condition in the spout.

So, it is a good idea … just your understanding of “why” it works is wrong.
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Re: Stream at Liebig Exit

Post by Hillbilly Popstar »

still_stirrin wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 5:18 am
Hillbilly Popstar wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 4:36 am So my theory is, this creates an ever so small amount of back pressure. And if it does create a small amount of back pressure, then the entire vapor path should not o ly have a lower velocity, but have denser vapor as well.

But what the hell do I know...
Well, “back pressure” is NOT what you want to happen. For one thing, it would cause an increase in the boiler temperature, and you know what that does … brings over more water with your alcohol, lowering the “proof at the spout”.

And another thing, a “plugging” of the airway does not slow the vapor down, it causes it to accelerate, because the mass flow will be the same and you’ve reduced the flow area by the space occupied by the plug. Surprisingly, as the velocity increases, the vapor’s density will decrease and this results in a decrease in the static pressure (again, due to the laws of physics, the “Ideal Gas Law”).

But what it does do is increase the conducting surface in the spout into which a hot vapor or a cold air inrush might lose it’s heat (or cold energy) to. This creates a “thermal dampening” such that the temperature is more consistent with the condensate that is trying to drip through the scrubby. This is how a little copper scrubby helps to stabilize huffing or puffing condition in the spout.

So, it is a good idea … just your understanding of “why” it works is wrong.
ss
Makes sense. Thanks for clarifying.

All in all, we are probably splitting hairs though, cause the blockage is only at the end of the liebig at a point where most, if not all, of the vapor has already condensed, and the "back pressure" we are talking about is likely all but immeasurable.
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Re: Stream at Liebig Exit

Post by Hügelwilli »

NormandieStill wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 4:20 am
Hügelwilli wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 4:15 am
Hillbilly Popstar wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 4:07 am A. Helps slow.down vapor velocity moving through the condenser.
Sure?
The still is producing 50ml/min distillate and out of the condenser is coming only 25ml/min? :yawn:
No. The still is producing 50ml/min and 50ml/min is coming out of the condenser, but the extended contact time means that the condenser is running more efficiently.

Vapour speed is only partially related to take-off speed. If I swap out my 2" column for a 4" column but change nothing else, the vapour speed will be around 1/8th, but the take-off speed will remain the same. :D
But a scrubber at the end of the condenser doesn't change its diameter. And even if it though would slow down the vapor, this would mean, that more vapor is in the condenser at the same time. And this would mean, that there is less surface area per vapor, and this means less condensing. Half surface area and twice condensing time equals out.
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Re: Stream at Liebig Exit

Post by Dancing4dan »

I roll up a bit of scrubber so it is the size of a piece of copper wire. Works every time.
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Re: Stream at Liebig Exit

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Hillbilly Popstar wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 4:07 am I take a copper scrubby shove it up in the end of the liebig, then pull/stretch the ends down to a taper a d twist them pointing straight toward the jar.

This does 4 things,
A. Helps slow.down vapor velocity moving through the condenser.
It does just the opposite.
The scrubby fills up space and the vapor has to move faster.
The farther it's pushed into the condenser the worst the problem becomes.

Don't believe me. Give it a try :wink:
Just be careful and don't let the still puke while its outlet is already partially blocked with mesh.
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Re: Stream at Liebig Exit

Post by The Baker »

shadylane wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 7:10 pm
Hillbilly Popstar wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 4:07 am I take a copper scrubby shove it up in the end of the liebig, then pull/stretch the ends down to a taper a d twist them pointing straight toward the jar.

This does 4 things,
A. Helps slow down vapor velocity moving through the condenser.
It does just the opposite.
The scrubby fills up space and the vapor has to move faster.
The farther it's pushed into the condenser the worst the problem becomes.

Don't believe me. Give it a try :wink:
The downpipe from my condenser (yes I have a downpipe...)
(it's a Davies condenser not a Liebig, a water tube outside and inside...)
is maybe fifteen inches long. Almost vertical.
Half inch or five eighths, would have to measure it but not narrow.
I guess the twist of copper scrubby makes no difference to vapour speed
or anything else much but it does even out and direct the flow.

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Re: Stream at Liebig Exit

Post by Hillbilly Popstar »

shadylane wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 7:10 pm
Hillbilly Popstar wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 4:07 am I take a copper scrubby shove it up in the end of the liebig, then pull/stretch the ends down to a taper a d twist them pointing straight toward the jar.

This does 4 things,
A. Helps slow.down vapor velocity moving through the condenser.
It does just the opposite.
The scrubby fills up space and the vapor has to move faster.
The farther it's pushed into the condenser the worst the problem becomes.

Don't believe me. Give it a try :wink:
Just be careful and don't let the still puke while its outlet is already partially blocked with mesh.

Yeah... not sure about how to take your suggestion of "try it" cause I don't need to, it the way I have been running my still for years.
But seeing as how I don't have a vapor speedometer, I guess the world will never know.

However, my liebig is less than 24" and I run it at a pretty steep angle, so I'd wager gravity is a factor of the condenser vapor speed just as much as boil rate and internal pressure. Also, considering the scrubby only takes up the last 4" of condenser tube, the vapor is condensed well before it reaches the copper stuffing.

If anything the scrubby is prevent air from sucking into the tube as a result of the vapor collapsing.
I wonder how that plays a role on condenser vapor velocity?
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Re: Stream at Liebig Exit

Post by shadylane »

Hillbilly Popstar wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 7:50 pm
Yeah... not sure about how to take your suggestion of "try it" cause I don't need to, it the way I have been running my still for years.
But seeing as how I don't have a vapor speedometer, I guess the world will never know.
Didn't mean to sound like a smarty pants. :lol:
But I'll stand by my statement that mesh stuffed into a condenser lowers its effectiveness.
The reason I know is because I've tried it.
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Re: Stream at Liebig Exit

Post by Hillbilly Popstar »

shadylane wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 8:01 pm
Hillbilly Popstar wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 7:50 pm
Yeah... not sure about how to take your suggestion of "try it" cause I don't need to, it the way I have been running my still for years.
But seeing as how I don't have a vapor speedometer, I guess the world will never know.
Didn't mean to sound like a smarty pants. :lol:
But I'll stand by my statement that mesh stuffed into a condenser lowers its effectiveness.
The reason I know is because I've tried it.
Where I respect that you have considerably more experience than I do, let's just say our individual attempts seem to have yield different results.

I'm sure there must be some variables we aren't considering here.
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Re: Stream at Liebig Exit

Post by Yummyrum »

I agree Shady that filling a condenser makes it less efficient . It certainly did when I filled the tubes in my shotgun dephagmator .

However , an inch in the end of a 5’ long Liebig is neither here not there , but it does fix erratic output instantly .

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Add piece of scrubber
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Nice stream .
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Re: Stream at Liebig Exit

Post by shadylane »

+1 on a short piece of loose scrubby to dampen out huffing.
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Re: Stream at Liebig Exit

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I use a bit of butchers twine (100% cotton) - works 100%
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Re: Stream at Liebig Exit

Post by NormandieStill »

Hügelwilli wrote: Thu Jan 13, 2022 12:12 pm But a scrubber at the end of the condenser doesn't change its diameter. And even if it though would slow down the vapor, this would mean, that more vapor is in the condenser at the same time. And this would mean, that there is less surface area per vapor, and this means less condensing. Half surface area and twice condensing time equals out.
A scrubber adds more surface area than it does volume. So while it will reduce the volume, it will disproportionately increase the surface area. Vapour condensed to liquid takes less volume, so increasing the surface area will increase the condensation, leaving more space for vapour. I've not done the maths, and I don't intend to, but it's far less simple than you suggest it is. Personal experience and anecdotal experience from other users seems to suggest that there is a benefit. In my case I used a simple length of copper wire which I had bent into a waveform and shoved up the exit of the liebig. It seemed to help enormously with the huffing problem that I was having, although I've since made other modifications to my process and equipment which made it unnecessary.
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Re: Stream at Liebig Exit

Post by Hügelwilli »

Yes, a scrubbie fixes huffing. But it is not because of slowing down the vapor or condensate. And I wrote only against the speed statement not against other things.

Yes, a scrubbie adds surface area, but regarding cooling a useless surface area, because it is not cooled.
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Re: Stream at Liebig Exit

Post by Toxxyc »

I saw a guy just stick a oak stick in the pipe, in the stream, with the distillate running down the stick into the container. Seems to work really well.
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Re: Stream at Liebig Exit

Post by shadylane »

Hügelwilli wrote: Fri Jan 14, 2022 2:42 am
a scrubbie adds surface area, but regarding cooling a useless surface area, because it is not cooled.
+1
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Re: Stream at Liebig Exit

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CoonPeckerAlternative.jpg
Some visual aid.

If using a copper wire, make sure it makes contact with the bottom of the output tube or the liquid won't follow the wire.
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Re: Stream at Liebig Exit

Post by BlueSasquatch »

I take some fresh twine, tie the knot above my exit tube, and lay it vertically, across the opening. This causes the liquid to run down the string, into the vessel of my choice, no matter the flow. For me anyways, suppose if you're really pissing, you're just gonna blow past it.
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Re: Stream at Liebig Exit

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NZChris wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 11:20 am Disease. I probably could get them in if I wanted to jump through the hoops. I use a bit of copper wire.

Not every raccoon don’t have disease they transmit it by what they fed on in the In the Bahamas and some Caribbean countries I’ve lived in raccoons eat livestock, fruits, and vegetables. A lot of people eat raccoon To answer bill soup and fried. however I have a coon pecker mines kind of trophy for distilling. I use copper wires twined together because I don’t want off flavors.
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Re: Stream at Liebig Exit

Post by Ben »

Saltbush Bill wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 2:58 pm Anyone who wants to dangle a dried critters donga in thier booze has gotta be hard up for ideas on how to get booze into a jar if you ask me.
Smart people just make the spout longer or a better shape.
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