Adding still to homebrewing setup

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chapelhouse
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Adding still to homebrewing setup

Post by chapelhouse »

I am excited to get in to this craft! I have been home brewing for 15 years and 10 of those have been all-grain brewing (mashing grains to make wort). I have found a lot of similarities with homebrewing and distilling, but I’m looking for some feedback on the equipment I want to purchase.

I really like modular and flexible systems and am looking to add this on to my current setup. I want to make sure I’m not forgetting anything so I don’t have to pay shipping more than once.

I want to be able to make vodka (for my wife who gave the blessing to buy the equipment), but I really want to make some whiskey. I’m very intrigued by the different techniques of finishing and aging whiskey.


Here is my current equipment:
Spike CF 15 conical fermenter
Glycol chiller/pump to control fermentation temps
Robobrew 65l boil kettle
Various 1.5” and 2” triclover parts with clamps and gaskets

Here is what I would like to purchase:

The lid to add on still- https://www.kegland.com.au/65l-distilla ... -hole.html

This still package from NorCal brewing solutions. (I’ve always been a fan of his awesome brewing gadgets) it comes with Dephlegmator, Lyne Arm, sight glass with perforated disk, 31” x 1.5 condenser, and all needed clamps and gaskets.
Still Spirits Turbo 500 Jaybird Ultimate Reflux Kit, NorCal Brewing Solutions https://www.norcalbrewingsolutions.com/ ... x-Kit.html

And a parrot with alcometer - https://www.kegland.com.au/kegland-dist ... steel.html

Questions:
Do I need to worry about the silicon gaskets for triclover clamps?
Can I use my glycol chiller and re-circulate through the condenser?
Anything else I should consider?
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Re: Adding still to homebrewing setup

Post by greggn »

chapelhouse wrote: Wed Mar 17, 2021 7:42 pm This still package from NorCal brewing solutions. (I’ve always been a fan of his awesome brewing gadgets) it comes with Dephlegmator, Lyne Arm, sight glass with perforated disk, 31” x 1.5 condenser, and all needed clamps and gaskets.
Still Spirits Turbo 500 Jaybird Ultimate Reflux Kit, NorCal Brewing Solutions https://www.norcalbrewingsolutions.com/ ... x-Kit.html

That package is obscenely over-priced. Not only that but the column is far too short to reflux effectively. Go ahead and buy the lid adapter but slow down, do a little more research on column design, and spend a little time comparison shopping.

For example, many of the components (less the condensers) can be found here: https://www.glaciertanks.com/

If the wife wants vodka then you'll want a CCVM head. Starting with that configuration, you can strip out a few pieces and you'll be ready to run for whiskey. Oh yeah, I'd highly suggest you forget the parrot. A test jar and proof-and-tralle hydrometer will do just fine.
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Re: Adding still to homebrewing setup

Post by still_stirrin »

+1 to what greggn said.

And if you could get some copper into the stillhead, you’ll be glad you did. Copper helps reduce sulfurs from the ferments.

Question: did you make any of your brewing equipment, or did you buy it all? Here we’ve found it easy to build much of our equipment, for three reasons:
1) it helps keep your name off of a “distiller list”, and
2) it will keep the marketeers out of your pocketbook. It is much more economical to build (copper is expensive, so it is not “free”). But why pay someone who is in business to capitalize on the new trend of home distillation? And
3) you can build a system that will meet your requirements, beit neutral spirits or brown liquor.

The condenser controlled vapor managed (CCVM) reflux stillhead can be adapted to run neutrals and also be configured as a potstill for stripping and making full flavored spirits. With “modularity, it is very “future-proof”.

Hang around and read for a while to better understand your requirements. Then, make your purchase. In the meantime, start some ferments to get some “distiller’s beer” ready for the still. It sounds like your experience there will have your ahead of that game.
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Re: Adding still to homebrewing setup

Post by howie »

agree with greg, i could buy a better modular system at half that price.
i don't see how it's going to reflux much either, (produce neutral).
the defleg only has 3 tubes, is that enough?
for good reflux on a 2", i think there should be at least 1m of column between boiler and deflag?
have a think before parting with your hard-earned
if you go for a parrot, you can get one that tri-clovers to the bottom of the product condenser. i have one that has a valve on the bottom so i can just let product drip through on spirit runs or close the valve and monitor the abv on strip runs. i find it quite handy (but not essential obv).
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Re: Adding still to homebrewing setup

Post by rubberduck71 »

Completely agree with greggn & ss's comments above, but if you're hell-bent on building upon your current Robobrew pot, check out the pot still & reflux still conversion kits avail for it. Cheapest I've found for them is Williams Brewing out of California. Free shipping over orders of $100. Each of those conversion kits is in the $150 range. You'll want both types, as stripping runs through just the reflux head is very slow in comparison to the pot head. Plus you can use the pot head to make whiskeys.

All that said, I don't see conversion kits for the 65L Robobrew, but they must have them as they sell the 65L DIgiboil unit (basically same as Brewzilla, but less bells & whistles) with both attachments. You can make it modular by using the 2" weldless bulkhead triclamp attachment which fits on the lid hole. Then get some 2" extension tubes (aka sanitary spools) that can be placed between that bulkhead & the still heads. Pack them with copper mesh, marbles, saddles, prismatic packing, etc... for your neutral runs. Copper mesh for whiskey runs always a good thing too...

There are threads on here detailing how to hook up a variable voltage regulator to the higher wattage heating coils on the underside of Brewzilla/Digiboil units. But it IS possible to get a controlled run on the existing equip (I've done it). Heat up with both elements on, then just before take-off switch off the higher one (in my 120V that's the 1000W element, leaving 500W on).

Enjoy, explore, & research.

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Re: Adding still to homebrewing setup

Post by chapelhouse »

Thank you for the feedback! I’ll continue my research before pulling the trigger. One of the reasons I started looking at NorCal is I have used them for some brewing equipment so I trust the product and company and the other is most of my equipment already has triclover fittings with stainless steel. But I have no problem shopping around and finding a good deal.
1) it helps keep your name off of a “distiller list”,
Is there an exact part that puts me on a “distiller list” like the condenser or the defleg? Or is it a combination? Most of the other parts can be used in standard homebrewing equipment.
And if you could get some copper into the stillhead, you’ll be glad you did.
It comes with copper to put on the sight glass.
did you make any of your brewing equipment, or did you buy it all?
Until last year I built or pieced together my own equipment, but I finally pulled the trigger on the upgraded equipment. When I added in the “cost” of my time, the learning curve, and materials of my projects I found there was a negligible difference in price. I also really liked the convenience and ease of the new equipment.
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Re: Adding still to homebrewing setup

Post by howie »

And if you could get some copper into the stillhead, you’ll be glad you did.
It comes with copper to put on the sight glass.
it says 3ft of copper mesh, that probably wouldn't touch the sides.
for example, i have 9m of copper mesh in 400mm of a 2" column.
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Re: Adding still to homebrewing setup

Post by chapelhouse »

I wouldn’t say I’m hellbent on using it, but I’d rather not buy another boiler and take up more space if I don’t have to.
All that said, I don't see conversion kits for the 65L Robobrew,
I was able to find the 65l lid by itself and it fits both the reflux and pot still heads available from Williams brewing/ more beer etc.
Each of those conversion kits is in the $150 range. You'll want both types, as stripping runs through just the reflux head is very slow in comparison to the pot head. Plus you can use the pot head to make whiskeys.
I’ve looked at those, but if I buy 2 different heads I’m already in the $300 range and those don’t seem to be as modular. Plus I’d have to buy the extra connection parts.
There are threads on here detailing how to hook up a variable voltage regulator to the higher wattage heating coils on the underside of Brewzilla/Digiboil units. But it IS possible to get a controlled run on the existing equip (I've done it). Heat up with both elements on, then just before take-off switch off the higher one (in my 120V that's the 1000W element, leaving 500W on).

I’ll definitely check them out, I’m already looking at doing the modification to move the control panel up higher. It frustrates me that they put the damned thing on the bottom. The 65l runs on 220v so it has 3 elements; 2000w,1000w, and 500w. Which is super handy for brewing because I can get 12 gal of wort to a boil in under 30 minutes.

Would it help control the temp of the boil by recirculating the wash in the boil? I recirculate the during mashing and boiling when I’m brewing beer to keep a steady temperature.
Last edited by chapelhouse on Thu Mar 18, 2021 11:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Adding still to homebrewing setup

Post by chapelhouse »

The condenser controlled vapor managed (CCVM) reflux stillhead can be adapted to run neutrals and also be configured as a potstill for stripping and making full flavored spirits. With “modularity, it is very “future-proof”.
I think this design is very close to CCVM. I would just need to make a coil to put in the top of the T instead of the thermometer and add a valve before the condenser. It would also be easy to add length to the column for better reflux.

The current column 2” in diameter. And I understand 21’ is a very short column, but it has a 6.5” sight glass -> 7” Delphegmator (3 x .49 ID tubes) -> 8” lyne arm. Both the sight glass and lyne arm are each stuffed with 3’ of copper mesh and have perforated disks on the bottom to hold the mesh.

I do have a glycol cooling system would allow me to very precisely control the cooling in the delphlegmator and the condenser. It recirculates and is very efficient. Currently I recirculate sub freezing liquid through a coil in my fermenter and can keep 10 gal of beer at 34°F in a stainless steel fermenter, in my garage, in Texas, during the summer(100° temperatures)
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Re: Adding still to homebrewing setup

Post by NormandieStill »

chapelhouse wrote: Thu Mar 18, 2021 9:51 am I do have a glycol cooling system would allow me to very precisely control the cooling in the delphlegmator and the condenser. It recirculates and is very efficient. Currently I recirculate sub freezing liquid through a coil in my fermenter and can keep 10 gal of beer at 34°F in a stainless steel fermenter, in my garage, in Texas, during the summer(100° temperatures)
Keeping already cool beer cool requires relatively low energy, even if you have to cool it from room temperature. In a still you are trying to "overcome" the heating element (or gas burner). Given 1500W input (which is not unreasonable for a 2" column I think) you need to be able to knock down all of it, essentially providing 1500W of cooling (if you're just talking about product condensing, you could get away with a little less possibly if you accept warmish product coming out). I would be terribly surprised if your glycol cooler were up to the job.
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Re: Adding still to homebrewing setup

Post by chapelhouse »

Alrighty, back again after more reading.
I’m leaning towards purchasing a still vs making my own because:
-I’m ok with being on a “distillers list” (especially since I’m only going to be distilling water to brew with :wink:)
-I know it’s more expensive to pay someone, but I feel their expertise in welding and braising is worth the extra cost.
-I know there will be modifications that will need to be made, but with a modular system i can add on.

I’m really vacillating between mile hi and NorCal, it still open to other suggestions.
https://milehidistilling.com/product/2- ... pro-tower/
https://www.norcalbrewingsolutions.com/ ... x-Kit.html

I would have to modify or add on to either system. I would need to extend the tower on both systems, and definitely add more copper to the NorCal system. With NorCal I would easily be able to add a CCVM coil in the top.

While I have found that NorCal is definitely on the high end of prices, I’m having trouble finding comparable parts at half the price.
Especially when I start looking and comparing the individual parts.
howie wrote: Thu Mar 18, 2021 6:29 am i could buy a better modular system at half that price.
For instance:
2” x 24” TC at Glacier is $49.35 https://www.glaciertanks.com/tri-clamp- ... 0-024.html
And the same at NorCal is $58.39 https://www.norcalbrewingsolutions.com/ ... Spool.html
Much higher in price, but much more equal in price when I add in the price of shipping when ordering from several different sites.

2”x7’ dephleg 3 .5” inner tubes $89.99 https://www.norcalbrewingsolutions.com/ ... mator.html pretty sure this one would be more efficient.
2” (I think this is just a jacketed 2” tube) $105 https://milehidistilling.com/product/2- ... condenser/

I have looked at:
Still Dragon, Mile Hi, claw hammer, and brewhaus.

And there any other good places to look?
With the setups listed above would I be able to make a decent product and learn the ropes?
With a shorter tower, is the main drawback lack of efficiency and causing the run to take longer?
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Re: Adding still to homebrewing setup

Post by howie »

image.png
image.png (2.99 KiB) Viewed 3112 times
$60aud/$45usd, 200mm, 8 pipe, 5 spacers, aliexpress.
the Distillex Store stuff i have bought has all been very good quality (so far :) )
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Re: Adding still to homebrewing setup

Post by Saltbush Bill »

Be aware that the mile high pro tower isn't a great reflux design...........home builders stopped making those over 10 years ago because there where more efficient designs.
Mile high and others still make and sell them because they look like a bargain to a newbie.
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Re: Adding still to homebrewing setup

Post by Deplorable »

Why not just buy the lid for your boiler, and make a CCVM? You'll be money ahead and learn something while you build it.
Get you 6 feet of 2", a 2X2X2 T, a 2" 90 elbow, a 2"X1/2 reducer, 7 feet of 1/2" copper, and a 10' roll of soft 1/4 inch copper tubing, 11 ferrules, and 7 tri clamps, and you'll have everything you need to build a solid performing modular still from knowledge laid out here in these forums.

Oh, and dont forget the PTFE gaskets.
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Re: Adding still to homebrewing setup

Post by chapelhouse »

howie wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:04 pm image.png

$60aud/$45usd, 200mm, 8 pipe, 5 spacers, aliexpress.
the Distillex Store stuff i have bought has all been very good quality (so far :) )
I’ve seen very mixed reviews about aliexpress.
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Re: Adding still to homebrewing setup

Post by chapelhouse »

Saltbush Bill wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:20 pm Be aware that the mile high pro tower isn't a great reflux design...........home builders stopped making those over 10 years ago because there where more efficient designs.
Mile high and others still make and sell them because they look like a bargain to a newbie.
Ahh gotcha, then you end up paying more to upgrade or end up scrapping it all together.
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Re: Adding still to homebrewing setup

Post by chapelhouse »

Deplorable wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:47 pm Why not just buy the lid for your boiler, and make a CCVM? You'll be money ahead and learn something while you build it.
Get you 6 feet of 2", a 2X2X2 T, a 2" 90 elbow, a 2"X1/2 reducer, 7 feet of 1/2" copper, and a 10' roll of soft 1/4 inch copper tubing, 11 ferrules, and 7 tri clamps, and you'll have everything you need to build a solid performing modular still from knowledge laid out here in these forums.

Oh, and dont forget the PTFE gaskets.
One thing I liked about NorCal is it comes with ptfe gaskets.

I like this idea, especially learning it from the inside out by building, but I’m worried about braising the Cooper to Stainless Steel. And the cost will significantly rise if I screw up a have to replace/redo the work. The cost of silver solder looks pretty high.

Building most of my homebrewing equipment when I started gave me tremendous understanding of the craft, but 12 years in I was able to afford really nice equipment that added a lot of convenience (and it’s really shiny and pretty).
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Re: Adding still to homebrewing setup

Post by Bushman »

I am 100% in favor of building what you can but if you live in NorCal you have a great brewing supply store that also carries distilling supplies in NorCal Brewing Solutions.
https://www.norcalbrewingsolutions.com/store/index.html
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Re: Adding still to homebrewing setup

Post by rubberduck71 »

Chapel, you could "build modularly" starting with that 65L cap & the 2" weldless bulkhead triclamp attachment which fits on the lid hole. From there, it's just spools, dephlags, sight glasses, & so on...
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Re: Adding still to homebrewing setup

Post by River Rat »

chapelhouse wrote: Thu Mar 18, 2021 7:14 am Is there an exact part that puts me on a “distiller list” like the condenser or the defleg? Or is it a combination? Most of the other parts can be used in standard homebrewing equipment.
My info might be outdated, but at the time I read about this (a few years ago) the TTB could request sales records from vendors for sales of complete stills. There is a thread somewhere here about it. "Complete still" could mean a lot of different things. Build what you can in my opinion.
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Re: Adding still to homebrewing setup

Post by Twisted Brick »

chapelhouse wrote: Thu Mar 18, 2021 7:14 am Is there an exact part that puts me on a “distiller list” like the condenser or the defleg? Or is it a combination? Most of the other parts can be used in standard homebrewing equipment.
It's been a few years, but I called a couple/three big distilling shops and spoke to either the owner or a manager. At that time I was informed that the original TTB requirements to make the list were to purchase a column. I was also told that it had been a year that the TTB had followed up on receiving the list, essentially dropping the exercise, presumably because it was too much work for too little reward.

There's a thread here where I originally reported my discussions. If I search/find it, I'll post a link.
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Re: Adding still to homebrewing setup

Post by opus345 »

Alright, we need an update. What did you buy/build?
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Re: Adding still to homebrewing setup

Post by Deplorable »

opus345 wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 2:37 pm Alright, we need an update. What did you buy/build?
I know the answer, but I'll wait and see if Chapelhouse posts pictures.
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Re: Adding still to homebrewing setup

Post by chapelhouse »

Update:
Huge thanks to this forum and especially Twisted Brick for building this work of art! The lid on my boiler was a little too weak for this amazing hunk of copper, so I had to fashion a support apparatus. Tomorrow is the cleaning run with vinegar, then the sacrificial run.

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Re: Adding still to homebrewing setup

Post by chapelhouse »

C8A44D4C-67D1-4BD0-9403-C0E8916F160D.jpeg
My coil is a little rough, but has good flow through it.
FF6108DA-FEDA-4F8F-928E-458CBE92B3FA.jpeg
I was able to use some of my brewing cam lock fittings for the water connections.
682DD5D9-1D7B-470D-B597-0DFFD08EECB5.jpeg
Until I get a good recirculating system I’ll be using my waste water to clean my other equipment and I also have a hose hooked up to a sprinkler for my yard.
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Re: Adding still to homebrewing setup

Post by chapelhouse »

01305B4B-6139-41DA-8111-60BE63D8F585.jpeg
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I also have all ptfe gaskets on TC fittings. For the boiler I was able to just wrap the top of boiler with ptfe tape. I also wrapped the silicone gaskets in the TC bulkhead for the lid and the re-circulating pump. (I’m not going to use the pump for distilling, but it does have a silicone gasket in the boiler)
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Re: Adding still to homebrewing setup

Post by Twisted Brick »

.
I think your coil will do the job nicely. You might add some scrubbie to aid in condensing, but one other member felt his coil worked better without it.

Looking forward to hearing how she runs!
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Re: Adding still to homebrewing setup

Post by BlueSasquatch »

That's a nice looking shotgun! I am going backwards from you as I am looking to modify a 13.2 gal keg into an electric all-in-one BIAB for beer this fall. Going to be blown away when 5 gallons of wort makes 5 gallons of beer, there is -considerable- reduction in volume through distilling.
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Re: Adding still to homebrewing setup

Post by rubberduck71 »

chapelhouse wrote: Tue Jul 13, 2021 1:02 am The lid on my boiler was a little too weak for this amazing hunk of copper, so I had to fashion a support apparatus.
Yeah, I noticed that also. I added a 36"x2" spool/riser on mine, and when you add in the torque of the water cooling lines at that height, I had to fashion some support via bungee cords onto my basement joists. Works just fine now!

That's a great looking mancave-ish set up in the background! Can I stop by??? :D

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Re: Adding still to homebrewing setup

Post by chapelhouse »

Twisted Brick wrote: Thu Jul 15, 2021 6:46 pm .
I think your coil will do the job nicely. You might add some scrubbie to aid in condensing, but one other member felt his coil worked better without it.

Looking forward to hearing how she runs!
I’ve got a scrubbie for it, just didn’t have it for the picture. I’m going to also try packing the column with scrubbies, but I’ve also got some lavarock coming in that I want to experiment with later.
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