needing some help with cuts - reduced sense of taste

[dunluce]

Good afternoon all,
I'm looking to do some blending, and as I have mentioned before, I have a reduced sense of taste due to losing my sense of smell over a decade ago (wish it was Covid, it might come back!). I'm hoping that someone might be able to give me some starting areas on these two spirit runs that I made, listed below with the closest percentage I could measure of ABV.

I have my guesses as to where the heads, hearts, and tails start, but I am hoping here that someone can look at this stats and give me their opinion - so I know if I am on the right track or not. I did NOT track temperature, but it would be helpful to know if that could be another stat I should be collecting at the same time.

Cheers, thanks in advance.

======================
Run 1
1-83
2-82
3-80
4-80
5-79
6-79
7-78
8-76
9-74
10-72
11-70
12-68
13-68
14-63
15-60
16-58
17-48

======================
Run 2
1-86
2-85
3-84
4-83
5-83
6-81
7-80
8-78
9-76
10-74
11-70
12-65
13-55
14-42
15-30
16-25
17-10

[tiramisu]

Time to find a friend.
I suspect you can find volunteer to help you drink

[dunluce]

Time to find a friend.
I suspect you can find volunteer to help you drink

Ha ha, no problem finding volunteers to help me drink.

But I'm not looking for anyone to "share" the blending hobby with right now.

[tiramisu]

Thing is that unless you are making vodka, part of the art is the taste and how far into the tails, heads you want for your aging.
I'm just not clear how you can do that by the numbers.

Once you have a recipe for your still you can likely reproduce it fairly closely but I don't see how you can develop the recipe without having someone taste the cuts... Or you could just target all hearts runs and throw the heads and tail into the feints jar for the next run maybe. That might be good for the kind of Irish whiskey that I like (ala catholic in the green bottle) but most of the guys here would look down on this as a bland/unsubtle whiskey (but I like it).

[dunluce]

Thanks, I totally get that, and I have a reduced taste...just not a refined one. I'm just not confident I can make great cuts myself, butu I know it also takes practice. I read the "Novice Cuts" thread, and there was mention of temperature/ABV changes in regards to some of the cuts, so I was hoping there might be some general guidelines someone more knowledgeable could glean from my stats posted.

[8Ball]

I’ve found that my hearts cut while using a parrot during spirit runs usually winds up being 78%-58%, giving me an aggregate cut percentage of ~ 70%, which I knock down to aging strength with sweet water.

[OtisT]

I’m curious if your sense of taste is totally gone, or if you can possibly detect some things that maybe are not tastes but more like what you feel in your mouth. For example, if you proof down samples from your jars, if you take a sip can you detect a difference between jars 2, 7, and 15? (Be sure to dilute each sample to 40% or lower before sampling.)

In jar 2 I’m hoping you will be able to feel the sharp bite of heads on the tip of your tongue/front of your mouth that is not there or is not as strong in jar 7.

In jar 15 I would hope you can feel an oily coating in your mouth that lingers for a while that is also not present in jar 7.

To me these are more feelings than a taste, but I’m just not sure what your limitations are. Let me know if you can detect any difference in those jars and if so, I’ll expand on how I use those feelings to make cuts.

A few other questions:
Are you doing a strip/spirit run protocol on a pot still?
What spirit are you making?
Do you have any cloudy jars near the end of that collection?

Otis

[NZChris]

Where the cuts come can depend a lot on how far you ran your strips. There is a big difference in heart cut ABVs from low wines of 24% compared to low wines of 40%.

[dunluce]

I’m curious if your sense of taste is totally gone, or if you can possibly detect some things that maybe are not tastes but more like what you feel in your mouth. For example, if you proof down samples from your jars, if you take a sip can you detect a difference between jars 2, 7, and 15? (Be sure to dilute each sample to 40% or lower before sampling.)

In jar 2 I’m hoping you will be able to feel the sharp bite of heads on the tip of your tongue/front of your mouth that is not there or is not as strong in jar 7.

In jar 15 I would hope you can feel an oily coating in your mouth that lingers for a while that is also not present in jar 7.

To me these are more feelings than a taste, but I’m just not sure what your limitations are. Let me know if you can detect any difference in those jars and if so, I’ll expand on how I use those feelings to make cuts.

A few other questions:
Are you doing a strip/spirit run protocol on a pot still?
What spirit are you making?
Do you have any cloudy jars near the end of that collection?

Otis

Hi Otis,

Just getting home from work, but I will give the above a try and get back to you. To answer your questions:
a) Yes, stripping run then a spirit run
b) The first is an all-grain whiskey, the second is a first generation rum with no dunder.
c) On the rum run, yes, there definitely was. I did get a tiny bit of yellow tinge on the whiskey at the end, but could possibly have run it longer I think.

Where the cuts come can depend a lot on how far you ran your strips. There is a big difference in heart cut ABVs from low wines of 24% compared to low wines of 40%.

The low wines for the runs were 40% - I think this is what you were asking?

[NZChris]

I suspected the low wines ABV might have been quite high from the ABVs you got on the spirit run. I have no experience running flavored products with 40% low wines, so I can't help except to suggest that the more info you give when asking a question, the more likely it is that you will get a useful answer.

When I've been in trouble selecting a heart cut, I've recruited a friend to help. I get my wife to read the pH strips because her color vision is better than mine.

[dunluce]

I have no experience running flavored products with 40% low wines, so I can't help except to suggest that the more info you give when asking a question, the more likely it is that you will get a useful answer.

Yes. The unfortunate part is that if you don't know what information is needed, you .... well.....don't know?

[dunluce]

\In jar 2 I’m hoping you will be able to feel the sharp bite of heads on the tip of your tongue/front of your mouth that is not there or is not as strong in jar 7.

In jar 15 I would hope you can feel an oily coating in your mouth that lingers for a while that is also not present in jar 7.

To me these are more feelings than a taste, but I’m just not sure what your limitations are. Let me know if you can detect any difference in those jars and if so, I’ll expand on how I use those feelings to make cuts.

I can tell the differences that you stated above, yes. There is a bit of a bite to #7, but it isn't near as sharp as what is happening with #2. And yes I can feel the oily coating for #15.

[NZChris]

Yes. The unfortunate part is that if you don't know what information is needed, you .... well.....don't know?

That's common for most newbies here, so don't be embarrassed or let that put you off asking questions.

[dunluce]

That's common for most newbies here, so don't be embarrassed or let that put you off asking questions.

Ha ha, I teach. Embarassing...but I also tell my students that the only stupid question is the one that I just finished answering that you weren't listening to.

Definitely won't stop me, everything here is a lesson.

[dunluce]

To me these are more feelings than a taste, but I’m just not sure what your limitations are. Let me know if you can detect any difference in those jars and if so, I’ll expand on how I use those feelings to make cuts.

Don't forget about me - really curious to hear what you have to say.

[OtisT]

OK, I’ll explain how I make cuts to see if it will work for you by feel.

I collect in jars so that each has the same volume and each is 5% or less of the total volume. (20+ jars).

Tails cut
As I sample jars from hearts toward tails, the smell of tails starts feint and gets progressively worse. The taste also gets progressively worse, a bitter taste I sense in the back of my tongue. (Can you can taste Bitter?). The jars also get more oily as you work your way out. (You said you could detect this coating in your mouth.) The normal cut point for me is determined by how long I feel that bitter/oiliness in my mouth. The first jar that lingers in my mouth noticeably longer than the previous jar is cut. I believe that lingering is because of the oils in tails.

[How long is lingering? If I can wash most of the offensive taste from my mouth with some saliva and a single swallow, it is not lingering. When I can’t get most of the bad taste out of my mouth after a couple swallows, that is lingering.]

That tails cut point described above is my cut point for whiskey I plan to age on oak. For rum, I will cut earlier but I can’t help you much here because I find that point by smell. I can say that my rum tails cut point is often two jars earlier (less tails).

Heads cut
When it comes to heads, I feel the bad taste of heads in the front of my mouth, on the tip of my tongue. The bad taste from heads has a sharp sting to it. As I taste proofed down samples from each jar from hearts toward heads, the bad taste gets progressively worse. My cut point is when that sting from heads lingers on my tongue noticeably longer than the previous jar.

The heads cut point described above is for most things I plan to age on oak.

I hope this helps you.
Otis

PS. I’ve heard of some ol boys who can make a tails cut by feeling spirit with their fingers. They rub up it between their fingers to sense for the oil. I’ve never tried it but thought you may be interested. Could be worth trying.

[dunluce]

I hope this helps you.
Otis

Otis, this is great, thank you. Much more detailed than most threads I have seen on making cuts, as this is more specifically HOW or WHAT tastes you are using to cut. I would suspect there are a lot of newbies out here who simply don't know. I have drank my share of whiskeys and scotch over the years, but even as a first ever batch of all grain whiskey, I can tell this tastes like nothing I have had before and there are subtleties I may miss.

Much appreciated, so thanks again. (your standing ovation is below lol)

[Demy]

I believe that the part concerning the cuts is the most difficult to explain. This happens because it is used flavor and smell and everyone has different sensitivities, it is also often learning only (as in my case) without a "master", so it takes time to learn. For example, I rely on the smell and to a lesser extent on taste, I take a few drops of alcohol and rubbed in my hands, I let it evaporate a little then the annuse, when they are close to the cuts sometimes I tasted (diluted with water) . Cosple often a bit of alcohol on the back of a spoon, I wait a few seconds and then annuse ... they are things I learned alone, so it's a personal method. I add that the first heads and deep queues are very easy to locate. Personally I make close cuts, I like purity even if it will be aged and I will try to maintain a certain flavor ... it is at this point that the cuts are more difficult.