larger batches of whiskey - straining?

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dunluce
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larger batches of whiskey - straining?

Post by dunluce »

I'm looking to start making some larger batches of whiskey, possibly 15-20 gallons at a time. The equipment I have is basically buckets and carboys for fermenters, similar to what I assume a lot of people have.

I do have a Brewzilla to use as a mash tun, but how do people do this in a timely manner? Do they just mix it all together, and then siphon it off the top of the grains once it is fermented? Or do they strain it through a filter, gallon by gallon until they have enough to ferment? I'd grab a food grade barrel for this, but then I would have the same question.....how do I separate this in order to distill the finished product? Just siphon off the top?

Has anyone come up with a system to fill a food grade barrel with mash that can then be easily separated from the grains?

Thanks.
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Re: larger batches of whiskey - straining?

Post by still_stirrin »

Sure. Some siphon. Some squeeze with a wringer. Me...I separate before fermenting, but I may be in the minority here.

Regardless, the bigger your mash size, the bigger your “mess” will be. So, size accordingly...and be prepared. If you get “big enough” and have the money to invest, there are slurry pumping systems which will move a grain slurry. But then, you’ll need a boiler system that can handle slurries as well. Again, more money.

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Re: larger batches of whiskey - straining?

Post by dunluce »

Thanks. Well, I'm working in a 9x9ft room, with a full bathroom across the hall for water/drain/washing access. I don't want to get too big, but I'd like to get as large as reasonably possible within my budget (cheap as possible) and space (limited).

I was just hoping someone smarter than me had come up with a neat way to drain a food grade barrel, making some kind of a sieve bottom or something. Still working my head around the problem, but it's always fun to reach out and see what people have come up with.
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Re: larger batches of whiskey - straining?

Post by CopperFiend »

This is definitely something I'm interested in, as I'm considering fermenting on the grain for my next batch. Does the grain settle during fermentation or is it a nightmare to siphon off the liquid into the boiler if the grain is still in there?

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Re: larger batches of whiskey - straining?

Post by ShineonCrazyDiamond »

You can siphon about half your liquid off the grain. The other half IS the grain. No way around it, gonna have to get it out unless you're cooking on grain. Good news is that with enough patience, you can retrieve about... wait for it, 96.5% of all your liquid back from separating. Takes me an hour and half for 50 gallon barrel. Almost 50 gallons back. Lose maybe 2.
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Re: larger batches of whiskey - straining?

Post by dunluce »

ShineonCrazyDiamond wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 10:29 am Good news is that with enough patience, you can retrieve about... wait for it, 96.5% of all your liquid back from separating. Takes me an hour and half for 50 gallon barrel. Almost 50 gallons back. Lose maybe 2.
That's awesome. And what is your method....just letting it settle, or straining through a bag?
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Re: larger batches of whiskey - straining?

Post by Setsumi »

myself do 20kg maize meal in 80lt water with enzymes. i ferment on the grain. post ferment i filter with geotextile fabric and then press. if i only do maize meal i get 68lt back. if i include other grains i get less. these days i extra sparge on my beer to get wort to include into the maize ferment rather than bother with grains in my maize.. that said, if you are using malted barley tread it like beer. no worries.
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Re: larger batches of whiskey - straining?

Post by Deplorable »

I do 25 gallon ferments in a 30-32 gallon barrel or Brute. Like SCD said, you have to work for the stuff in the grain.
Ferment on grain, following SCDs easy large batch mashing process.
Rack the clear from the top.
Get a mop wringer, big scoop, and a 5 gallon paint strainer bag. Squeeze the grains until you get everything out of them.
I get about 23.5 gallons back from a 25 gallon mash.
I prefer to let the cloudy stuff clear, before I run it. Your choice.
I'm not as efficient as SCD. Yesterday it took me 2.5 hours to process a 25 gallon mash from starting the pump, to getting the grains into the freezer for a later sugarhead. Another half hour to clean the Brute, mop wringer, pump, and scoop and put everything away.
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Re: larger batches of whiskey - straining?

Post by Iulistoi »

I mash 20 kg cornmeal with 70 liters of water and enzymes. I ferment on grain and I distill on grain too, directly on the flame, thin bottom and never scorched. That's because the cornmeal don't have germs and bran and the mash is quite fluid. Otherwise it would be strained and squeezed. I did a rice mash. I strained with nailon mesh 160 liters of mash until dry. Once I distilled whole wheat mash and it scortched on the bottom of the pot. I think straining is not so hard if you are not very lazy. But always AFTER fermentation because it strains better than after mashing. Sugars gives viscosity while alcohol gives fluidity.

But I think that straining fruit mashes eliminates the aromas. Strained washes give more neutral spirits than mashes with pulp and seeds but I'm not sure it happens in grain mashes too.
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Re: larger batches of whiskey - straining?

Post by Sailman »

20210329_080322.jpg
I made this for peaches , it works ok with a a mesh bag. It won't hold it to a lot of heat but will give you a idea of what could be made cheap and easy.
20210329_080411.jpg
20210329_080356.jpg
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Re: larger batches of whiskey - straining?

Post by rubberduck71 »

I have a 35L Digiboil (dumbed down version of your Brewzilla), but it uses the same malt barrel (check out the "Mash Upgrade Kit"). I've had good successes using that to "drip dry" the grains. However, I wouldn't recommend going above 10 lbs of grains in that sized system: too hard to mix during mashing process. I've even gone so far as to put a plate on top of the grains weighted down with a gallon jug. Gets most of the liquid out.

Would also recommend if you don't already have it the neoprene jacket & a BIAB as a 2nd layer of filtering to keep the grains out of the fermenter.

I've been fermenting on grain lately (you HAVE to when using the yellow label Angel Yeast), so I also purchased a SS hop spider that I hang on side of fermenter to keep the grains being sucked up by my siphon. They're under $30 & take the worry out of getting scorchables into the boiler.

And +1 to Deplorable's recommendation to save those "spent" grains for a gumballhead. Use the feints from the AG run on the gumball spirit run to extract even more flavor!

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Re: larger batches of whiskey - straining?

Post by dunluce »

Seems to me while it takes more energy at the end, the fermeting-on-the-grain method is probably the easiest one to upsize the batches with?

Sailman - I definitely like the basket strainer idea, I was thinking something like that but more with food grade barrels....maybe a two tier system and a small kitchen step stool to facilitate things?
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Re: larger batches of whiskey - straining?

Post by Deplorable »

I've only ever fermented on grain for distilling since I sold off almost all of my AG home brewing gear a few years back thinking I'd never use it again. (that was probably the 3rd dumbest thing I've ever sold)
I don't get all these folks who say squeezing is messy. I don't find it that messy at all, but that's probably why it takes me longer than some. I'm slow and deliberate so as not to sling shit all over my garage only to have to clean it up afterwards.
Here's a picture.
20210410_102216.jpg
You can see, if you have your wringer next to your fermenter you can scoop from the fermenter into the wringer without making a mess. Then the dry grains go into a hefty garbage bag hanging next to the white barrel. After Im done, I sweep up less than a teaspoon of grain off the floor.
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Re: larger batches of whiskey - straining?

Post by dunluce »

Well, 25 gallons run, in a pot, fermenter bucket, and the Brewzilla. Bit of a pain in the ass, but straining through the Brewzilla wasn't too bad.
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Re: larger batches of whiskey - straining?

Post by CopperFiend »

Deplorable wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 2:04 pm I've only ever fermented on grain for distilling since I sold off almost all of my AG home brewing gear a few years back thinking I'd never use it again. (that was probably the 3rd dumbest thing I've ever sold)
I don't get all these folks who say squeezing is messy. I don't find it that messy at all, but that's probably why it takes me longer than some. I'm slow and deliberate so as not to sling shit all over my garage only to have to clean it up afterwards.
Here's a picture.

20210410_102216.jpg

You can see, if you have your wringer next to your fermenter you can scoop from the fermenter into the wringer without making a mess. Then the dry grains go into a hefty garbage bag hanging next to the white barrel. After Im done, I sweep up less than a teaspoon of grain off the floor.
Hi Deplorable, what is that strainer? Is there a chance of a closer image please? Looks like something I'd definitely be interested in investing in.

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Re: larger batches of whiskey - straining?

Post by rubberduck71 »

I can answer for Deplorable: it's your standard mop ringer. Instead of hanging it on the side of a rolling bucket, hang it on the side of your fermenter or strong-sided bucket.

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Re: larger batches of whiskey - straining?

Post by Deplorable »

Yep. Just a mop wringer with a paint strainer bag in it. I started out using it on the mop bucket, but when I got the white barrel I hang it on there to reduce all the bending over.
Everybody's technique is a little different, but what works well for me is to fill the strainer bag with about 3 quarts of slop, hand squeeze to get much of the liquid out, then squeeze, rotate, squeeze, until I can't get anymore liquid out. Dump the grains into a garbage bag, and repeat.
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Re: larger batches of whiskey - straining?

Post by CopperFiend »

Thanks guys, I'll definitely do this next time. I think there's surely more flavour and whacky bacteria to be had to add more to a whisky from fermenting on the grain, and why strain before when you can strain after :)
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Re: larger batches of whiskey - straining?

Post by ShineonCrazyDiamond »

I tried to capture some inspiration and common sense in This Thread about large batches. If you haven't seen it yet, go through it. It was a journey documentation that might help you out.
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Re: larger batches of whiskey - straining?

Post by howie »

my first attempt at whiskey (and straining), with a cornflake whiskey, left me with 25L in the fermenter.
siphoned about 17L of clear wash off, and left with just 8L of gloop.
then i fastened a large hop bag inside the brewzilla malt pipe with 6 x bulldog clips, and put the pipe in the sparge position above the boiler.
i put an extra layer of mesh between the 2 x stainless steel mesh bottom screen, at the bottom of the malt pipe.
the hop bag strained most of the wash, very little gloop got through to the malt pipe mesh.
i just left it to drain and got another 3L out of the gloop.
tried to squeeze the hop bag, but i was just squeezing gloop out.
ended up with 5L of gloop to dispose of, which is about the volume of corn flakes & rye i used.
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