Bad smell

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Dalejam
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Bad smell

Post by Dalejam »

Hello all,
I have made a 10 gallon wash. It was made up with cracked corn I milled it down smaller. Tractor supply cracked corn.
I boiled the mash for 90 minutes, added sugar to the mix to bring the gravity to 1.080
Put in amylase to break down starches. It did its job. Oh of water was 5.4 . Added dady yeast when temp got down to 90 f.

Put the mash in 3 different 5 gallon plastic water bottles.

It took the mash 10 days. On the 9th day I checked it it was at 5% , on the 10th day same reading .
I tasted it was like a seltzer with alcohol .

When I went to distill it. I have a keg with a 4 inch opening a flange to knock it down to 2 inch. The colum is 4 foot tall, then the thermostat at the top. Then it goes over to a worm.
I ran it slow at 150 f I got liquid after 4-5 oz I checked it , was 160 proof through that away. After that it dropped to 130proof
It dropped off quickly and has a awful smell to it chemically. I got about 5 quarts . They all smell .
Temp never got above 160 . It was still putting out fluids but very little taste of alcohol more water.
So the next run was the same effect smell and like eggs sulfur.
Open to suggestions
Dale
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MartinCash
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Re: Bad smell

Post by MartinCash »

Hi Dale,

Some basic troubleshooting questions:

* Is there any copper in the vapour path?
* Was there any of the off smell in the wash after fermenting?
* What do you intend to do with the wash? Is it low wines for a 2nd distillation, or was it intended to be the final product? If the second, then did you do any cuts?
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Demy
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Re: Bad smell

Post by Demy »

To reduce the smell of sulfur I advise you to contact your Wash with copper, keep it a few days before distilling, in the same way the alcoholic vapors should come into contact with copper during distillation.
Another observation: If you really want to use sugar, enter it after you have received the conversion of starches not before. In any case your problem seems related to fermentation: What yeast did you use? fermentation temperature?
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Re: Bad smell

Post by NZChris »

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Kindafrench
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Re: Bad smell

Post by Kindafrench »

Try a tried and true recipe and follow the time AND temp. protocol.
If everything is sanitized and you did the cleaning runs on your still,
there's not much left to go wrong.
Try to run by % of power or amount of alcohol output, not temp.
Temp. comes an goes as you run your stuff :-)
Dalejam
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Re: Bad smell

Post by Dalejam »

Martin, no copper at all.
No bad smells at all from mash.
Was making just a base.
Figured would try a simple process first.

Things I thought of after when the liquid leaves the condenser I have a plastic hose I purchased from Lowe’s . Clear plastic hose could it be leaching from that.

Next was I forgot to do the vinegar wash as the first run.
Will it help if I do that now ?
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Re: Bad smell

Post by Dalejam »

I am using propane as a heat source. The liquid that was being made was a steady drip or a flow. Thinner then a pencil led.
I still have some of the mash left that I could run . I want to try the exact same way. But run a vinegar wash first? If so how long do you run a vinegar was for? After words what would be the next process to clean that out.

I saved all the Liquids for I figure I will run it again as a stripping run .

1 more thing I did forget I will need to pull the thermostat Andy check it against another one that is calibrated correctly. For if I follow the temp on top of still and it is wrong I could be running hotter then 150-160
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Re: Bad smell

Post by Dalejam »

Am I allowed to post a picture of system so you can see what I am referring too. If so how ???
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rubberduck71
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Re: Bad smell

Post by rubberduck71 »

Dalejam wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:35 am Am I allowed to post a picture of system so you can see what I am referring too. If so how ???
Try Snipping Tool (found on most PC's) & use the Preview functionality on this site. Cut & paste works for me, but it needs to be under 500 KB in size. There's also an Attachments tab below the Save draft/Preview/Submit buttons below the typing field when you reply. You can Add files if you save the pic in your hard drive.
image.png
image.png (7.53 KiB) Viewed 1349 times
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8Ball
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Re: Bad smell

Post by 8Ball »

Dalejam wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:26 am Martin, no copper at all.You need some copper
No bad smells at all from mash.
Was making just a base.
Figured would try a simple process first.

Things I thought of after when the liquid leaves the condenser I have a plastic hose Tilt!! This is probably your problem. I purchased from Lowe’s . Clear plastic hose could it be leaching from that. yes

Next was I forgot to do the vinegar wash as the first run. You need to clean your rig first.
Will it help if I do that now ? Yes
+1 to earlier suggestions. You really need to read up on things before you do anymore ops.
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Dalejam
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Re: Bad smell

Post by Dalejam »

Ok will see if this works
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Re: Bad smell

Post by Dalejam »

49F94FE7-2DEC-4A69-9EB4-A6F79F9CD1D7.jpeg
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still_stirrin
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Re: Bad smell

Post by still_stirrin »

Shame, shame.....get rid of that vinyl hose on the product outlet. It’s gonna’ make your product stink and taste bad.

What’s at the top? Do you have a reflux condenser up there? Or, is it just a “capped Tee”? Can’t see it in the photo.
ss
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Re: Bad smell

Post by Dalejam »

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Re: Bad smell

Post by still_stirrin »

Tape it over. That won’t help you in the slightest. It’ll only confuse and confound. Thermometers on potstills should be ILLEGAL.
ss
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Re: Bad smell

Post by still_stirrin »

So, on your product condenser outlet, get a copper union and sweat a length of copper to the outlet to get it closer to your collection jar. And with a union, you can disassemble it for storage, or even use a smaller length of pipe when you don’t have such a long riser (not a column on a potstill) on the boiler.

And without a reflux condenser, the tall riser doesn’t do much good for you, so you really could move the head closer to the boiler. And packing in a riser isn’t much good either because once the boiler is producing, the vapors just rise to the top with little, if any reflux (condensing and reboiling).
ss
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Dalejam
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Re: Bad smell

Post by Dalejam »

Condenser
Condenser
Condenser
Dalejam
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Re: Bad smell

Post by Dalejam »

SS I HAVE A 4 foot colum and a 1 foot colum I could use or swap out too. As for reflux, I was going to use rashing rings and copper scrubby. That should cause reflux ,
So your saying don’t go so high with the column ?

I have a different cap I can put on it to go to copper pipe, but I would like to have a thumper, any ideas on how to make one . Is the glass mason jars good enough 😝
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still_stirrin
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Re: Bad smell

Post by still_stirrin »

Dalejam wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 8:37 am SS I HAVE A 4 foot colum and a 1 foot colum I could use or swap out too. As for reflux, I was going to use rashing rings and copper scrubby. That should cause reflux , <— Packing alone won’t create reflux. You MUST have a reflux condenser.

So your saying don’t go so high with the column ? <— It’s NOT a “column” unless you have a reflux condenser. It’s just a tall riser.

I have a different cap I can put on it to go to copper pipe, but I would like to have a thumper, any ideas on how to make one . Is the glass mason jars good enough? <— STOP RIGHT THERE! Mason jars are NOT recommended for use as thumpers....EVER!
You NEED to read a while. You’re not “thinking straight”. Maybe you’ve got your education from Youtube, or those clowns on that Discovery channel. They are not helping you. So, you better do diligence here before proceeding.
ss
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Re: Bad smell

Post by Dalejam »

So just having a riser is not good enough. I am willing to learn. Just don’t know where to learn from. Reading books gives you basic knowledge. Experience and time gives you better knowledge, then making same mistake .
I have attached a photo of what I can connect to , to go over to copper. But cutting down on the height of the tower and packing it , does that not cause reflux ? So only higher proof vapor will pass by causing more of the water vapor to cling to surfaces and fall back to still ?

What about a thumper any ideas how to build one reasonably priced .

I appreciate all your feedback appreciate it .

I know lose the thermostat
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Dale
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Re: Bad smell

Post by Saltbush Bill »

Dalejam wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 9:36 am Just don’t know where to learn from.
If you stick it out here you will learn all you need and you will learn the right ways.
Sometimes the answers you get will be blunt , and sometimes not what you expect or wanted to hear.....but in 99% of cases they will be the correct answers.
That cant be said for youtube or any of the social media distilling groups .
Dalejam
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Re: Bad smell

Post by Dalejam »

I agree , that is why I am here. To learn, put all my cards on the table and tell the truth in what I have, what I have done, then the last part my results. They may be aweful results . But I thought about my process and kind of figured out my issue. But getting responses from others that have been doing this longer then I have . So I will take what is given to me and work from there . Thank you all for the input so far .
Dale
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still_stirrin
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Re: Bad smell

Post by still_stirrin »

Dalejam wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 9:36 amSo just having a riser is not good enough. I am willing to learn. Just don’t know where to learn from....
Here’s a link to the parent site that will give you a better understanding of how a still works and the difference between a potstill and a reflux still: https://homedistiller.org/wiki/index.php/Still

Here’s a little more on potstills and physics: http://cocktailchem.blogspot.com/2014/0 ... tills.html

Here’s a link to 2 external websites that have a more extensive discussion of reflux still physics and operations: https://stilldragon.com/blog/column-distillation and https://brewhaus.com/blog/reflux-still- ... ed-part-1/
Dalejam wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 9:36 amBut cutting down on the height of the tower and packing it , does that not cause reflux ? So only higher proof vapor will pass by causing more of the water vapor to cling to surfaces and fall back to still ?
It doesn’t work like that.

Higher purity is created by the separation of alcohols and other volatile compound (molecules) from the water (molecules) in the wash. It requires boiling and condensing and reboiling and recondensing several times to do this. Simply packing a potstill riser doesn’t create the condensing and reboiling cycles necessary. And when the riser is up to working (boiling) temperatures, the packing is usually heated to the vapor stream temperatures, so it won’t cause condensation. The hot vapors simply rise through the packing and pass over to the product condenser.

The packing is a surface area that falling condensate can contact the rising vapors long enough to transfer some of the heat from the vapor to the liquid, creating a reboiling of higher volatile constituents, while less volatile constituents (water) will fall back towards the boiler (as a liquid).

So, the column height is where the reboiling/condensing cycles occur...provided you have a reflux condenser above the column to condense the vapors and create the reflux cycle. Reflux requires both, a reflux condenser and packing to purify the vapors boiling from the boiler.
Dalejam wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 9:36 amWhat about a thumper any ideas how to build one reasonably priced.
Here’s a link to the parent site description of thumpers and how they work: https://homedistiller.org/wiki/index.php/Thumper

And here’s a link to the Thumper design and build forum: https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewforum.php?f=16
There’s a lot of good data there for you to read.
ss
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Re: Bad smell

Post by Dalejam »

Wow I have some reading to do. Thank you for the info and the links. When I finish this reading I will see where I stand and what I need to change up
Thank you all
Thank you SS

DALE
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MartinCash
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Re: Bad smell

Post by MartinCash »

Dalejam wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:44 am
It dropped off quickly and has a awful smell to it chemically. I got about 5 quarts . They all smell .
It sounds to me like you did no cuts, and that alone would explain the chemical smell.

If you will be using that for consumption (as a base or finished product) and not re-distilling it, you must do cuts. Have a read of Kiwistillers novice guide for cuts: https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11640
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Re: Bad smell

Post by NZChris »

If there are sulfides coming over, following Kiwistiller's guide won't help much.
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Re: Bad smell

Post by Dalejam »

I did do cuts , but no more then the 4 th jar and it was loosing alcohol . Was more water then anything .

So it no longer goes to a plastic hose goes to a copper pipe then to jar. First fix

Next I did a vinegar wash run I let it run after it was steaming for 15 min . Turned it off let it cool . Dumped it , refilled the keg twice with water. Wiped with a towel on the inside. Flushed one more time. Tomorrow I will make a run, slow and steady. After I finish I will post what happens
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Re: Bad smell

Post by NZChris »

I just re-read your OP. I can't make decent product in one run and have never expected to. The spirit run I'm doing today has four stripping runs worth of 27% abv Low Wines in the boiler. The boiler and head both have copper in them, always have had.

The few times I've smelled sulfur coming out of a still, it has been from other distillers all SS stills. The washes smelled fine.
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Re: Bad smell

Post by Dalejam »

So I got home made another run with the last of my mash. So I the colum is 12 tall going to the condenser , out of the condenser with copper to collection jar. Heads were 172,
After that 2 small mason jars 150 proof using small jars so I can smell and feel the difference .

Very great full for all the insight from everyone . No bad chemical smell , just harsh tingling neutral spirit. To high have to proof down.

Will fill in more when I do more

Dale
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