Clarifying Whiskey

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Odinson88
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Clarifying Whiskey

Post by Odinson88 »

I tried a search, and it didnt return my needs, so forgive me if I missed something.

I made and rapid aged (freezer method) a batch of whiskey.
flavoured with Cinnamon, Cloves, Peppercorn and Vanilla bean.
Turned out great. Tastes great.

I found that when jarred, and let to sit, it shows a .... settlement. not solids, it looks more like backwash or something. I suspect its an oil or fibre from the cinnamon or vanilla bean maybe?

any ideas how to clear it up?

I want it to look as sexy as it tastes, and store some away and it look just as good years from now.

Thanks
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dunluce
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Re: Clarifying Whiskey

Post by dunluce »

Possibly some fusel oils, if you went into the tails a bit?
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Re: Clarifying Whiskey

Post by acfixer69 »

Odinson88 wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 6:01 pm I tried a search, and it didnt return my needs, so forgive me if I missed something.

I made and rapid aged (freezer method) a batch of whiskey.
flavoured with Cinnamon, Cloves, Peppercorn and Vanilla bean.
Turned out great. Tastes great.

I found that when jarred, and let to sit, it shows a .... settlement. not solids, it looks more like backwash or something. I suspect its an oil or fibre from the cinnamon or vanilla bean maybe?

any ideas how to clear it up?

I want it to look as sexy as it tastes, and store some away and it look just as good years from now.

Thanks
What is that.
Odinson88
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Re: Clarifying Whiskey

Post by Odinson88 »

wood chips/chunks (toasted/charred red oak works well) in container with your distillate.
put in freezer for 24 hours, then at room temp for 24 hours.

each time you do this cycle, it rapid ages = 1 year of time lapse ageing.

this is subjective, not gospel.
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Re: Clarifying Whiskey

Post by Odinson88 »

dunluce wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 6:23 pm Possibly some fusel oils, if you went into the tails a bit?
I cut early, always do.

I have had the same results when I make the mix for my Apple Pie.
I have been able to eliminate that by putting the mix into a container with a drain valve about 1" up from bottom.
the settlement drops after 24 hours, then I drain from the valve, leaving the settlement to bottom.

I dont feel comfortable with this method using the whiskey, however, given the container I use for the apple pie mix is plastic, and the gasket for the valve is a rubber. (the apple pie mix has zero alcohol)
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dunluce
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Re: Clarifying Whiskey

Post by dunluce »

You say it looks like a backwash...something must be precipitating out of the solution at that point. Not sure what though, others with more experience might want to chime in.
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Re: Clarifying Whiskey

Post by NZChris »

Decant off the clear, then filter the rest through a coffee filter into a separate container because of the likely hood that the filter lets some through. If it's still dirty, put it back through the same filter.

If the filtering doesn't work, filter the dregs through your liver.
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Re: Clarifying Whiskey

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NZChris wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 7:06 pm Decant off the clear, then filter the rest through a coffee filter into a separate container because of the likely hood that the filter lets some through. If it's still dirty, put it back through the same filter.

If the filtering doesn't work, filter the dregs through your liver.
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Re: Clarifying Whiskey

Post by The Baker »

Decant it.
Let the dirty stuff from the bottom stand.
Decant that.
And do it all again. And again.
It's actually very little effort, the quantities decrease massively each time.

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Re: Clarifying Whiskey

Post by still_stirrin »

Odinson88 wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 6:28 pm wood chips/chunks (toasted/charred red oak works well) in container with your distillate.

put in freezer for 24 hours, then at room temp for 24 hours....each time you do this cycle, it rapid ages = 1 year of time lapse ageing. <— This is NOT aging. Sure, it may coax out some color. And it may liberate some of the volatiles. But it won’t add the time that “age on wood” would.

this is subjective, not gospel. <— No shit!
If you want it bad enough to process it this way...then you’ll get it the way you’ve processed it....BAD.

Nobody here would tell you to process your liquor like this. Aging spirits takes time! So, why do you expect us to help you fix your screwup?
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Re: Clarifying Whiskey

Post by ng71xy »

I call the ‘rapid ageing’ rapid flavouring. Just like Nuke ageing with a microwave…a good quick way to get a decent enough product whilst I’m waiting the months for the bulk of it to ‘age’ properly on oak
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Re: Clarifying Whiskey

Post by NZChris »

"Clarifying Whiskey" is a poor choice of search terms as it's likely to get more results relating to this than for what you want: https://www.whiskyadvocate.com/cloudy-whisky/

Try using more search terms. Mining this site and the interweb for answers isn't easy, but the results are very rewarding once you develop the necessary skills.
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Re: Clarifying Whiskey

Post by Toxxyc »

Sediment will always follow if you spice or flavour your spirits. I've had rum that was apparently crystal clear still deposit at the bottom of the bottle after a few months. Now I filter if I spice and then let it sit for a while (on oak) before I proof down and bottle. It's the only way I've found to get clear spirit in the bottle.
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Re: Clarifying Whiskey

Post by Odinson88 »

Thanks for insite, and methods to try out.

@Still-Stirrin:
Thanks for your overwhelmingly useful comments, as always.
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Re: Clarifying Whiskey

Post by jonnys_spirit »

I'd use white oak - not red oak (tastes like what cat urine smell like IMO due to the natural resins/etc in the wood).

Filter and/or cold crash / decant as others have suggested. If the filter becomes clogged use a new one. Some folks use felt or cotton to help separate the oils so try to research that and check out if it might be helpful in your case.

You could always re-run it with the macerate in the boiler or vapor path then do a quick age on oak if you want to clear it best and turn it around for a quick drinker and use your spice mix to add some flavor.

I usually take a "heart-of-hearts" very clean white cut for quick drinking and a separate barrel-cut... Even that white-dog cut improves with some sitting over a couple weeks or a month or so but also enjoy it right away.

Cheers!
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Re: Clarifying Whiskey

Post by Odinson88 »

:thumbup:
jonnys_spirit wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 6:36 am I'd use white oak - not red oak (tastes like what cat urine smell like IMO due to the natural resins/etc in the wood).

Filter and/or cold crash / decant as others have suggested. If the filter becomes clogged use a new one. Some folks use felt or cotton to help separate the oils so try to research that and check out if it might be helpful in your case.

You could always re-run it with the macerate in the boiler or vapor path then do a quick age on oak if you want to clear it best and turn it around for a quick drinker and use your spice mix to add some flavor.

I usually take a "heart-of-hearts" very clean white cut for quick drinking and a separate barrel-cut... Even that white-dog cut improves with some sitting over a couple weeks or a month or so but also enjoy it right away.

Cheers!
-j
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Re: Clarifying Whiskey

Post by subbrew »

jonnys_spirit wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 6:36 am I'd use white oak - not red oak (tastes like what cat urine smell like IMO due to the natural resins/etc in the wood).

Filter and/or cold crash / decant as others have suggested. If the filter becomes clogged use a new one. Some folks use felt or cotton to help separate the oils so try to research that and check out if it might be helpful in your case.

You could always re-run it with the macerate in the boiler or vapor path then do a quick age on oak if you want to clear it best and turn it around for a quick drinker and use your spice mix to add some flavor.

I usually take a "heart-of-hearts" very clean white cut for quick drinking and a separate barrel-cut... Even that white-dog cut improves with some sitting over a couple weeks or a month or so but also enjoy it right away.

Cheers!
-j
I thought that taking a heart of hearts bottle would be good idea as well. And it probably was until I brought it out and sat down with friends for a couple of hours of conversation. Then I realized the bottle was empty and my legs no longer cooperated with my brain.
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Re: Clarifying Whiskey

Post by Chucker »

I can’t attest to the whether or not the aging method is a factor or not but I’ve also experienced a haze development after settling, removing from wood, filtering, and cutting. It doesn’t show up immediately and actually looks wonderful for a time after cutting.
It generally shows up when the weather cools and shows up as a very slowly settling solid. Most or all of it will go back into solution when returned to room temperature. While coffee filters easily clog with it they do little to remove it.
What does work, and I don’t like the extra step, is a little bentonite slurry. It will settle the fines in a matter of days and the liquid is easily decanted from the settled mass.
I wish I knew what these late appearing fines are but I would suspect that it is something that is soluble from the oak at the higher concentration of etoh and it simply doesn’t remain so as temperature declines at the lower concentration. I do not suspect oils as the fines will settle given enough time and it doesn’t show up right away. Nor does it looks like a simple cloudiness. There doesn’t seem to be any effect on flavor but it’s a shame to spoil the appearance of something requiring such effort.
As I progress through several decants I will reuse the bottom slurry for a couple of subsequent jugs. When I sort of get to where I just can’t decant any more I’ll just dump the mud layer back into another spirit run. It’s not a big amount but it pretty much amounts to a zero loss.
I only do this for stuff I want to bottle and hold. If I’m just pulling and cutting a bottle for immediate consumption it’s fine. It takes time and a temperature reduction to develop.
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Re: Clarifying Whiskey

Post by Odinson88 »

Chucker wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 7:23 pm ...
What does work, and I don’t like the extra step, is a little bentonite slurry. It will settle the fines in a matter of days and the liquid is easily decanted from the settled mass.
Bentonite as in the clay?
What do you mix it with for your slurry, straight water?
And what sort of quantity are you putting in, say 5Gal?

Interesting.


I found it appears rapidly if the jar is put into a freezer. The "cloud" almost solidifies and floats as a mas in the center (vertically and horizontally) of the jar.
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Re: Clarifying Whiskey

Post by NZChris »

If you have a small still, you can run the botanicals in some of the heart cut to make essence to add. That way, you don’t have all the proteins and crap floating around in your finished product.

Bentonite is good at removing flavor, so using it should be a last resort.
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Re: Clarifying Whiskey

Post by Odinson88 »

NZChris wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 12:59 pm Bentonite is good at removing flavor, so using it should be a last resort.
Thanks for heads up.
I am LOVING the flavour profile, I just want it to look as sexy as it tastes, if it sits over years or chilled over night...

I want all my liquor to have that "Jennifer Aniston " look.... forever flawless
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Re: Clarifying Whiskey

Post by River Rat »

Odinson88 wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 11:13 am I found it appears rapidly if the jar is put into a freezer. The "cloud" almost solidifies and floats as a mas in the center (vertically and horizontally) of the jar.
Cold brings out the oils. All my low wines from stripping runs do that very same thing when they get real cold in my out building during the winter. Looks like a white cloud of jelly floating in the center of the jugs. I agree it's some sort of oils from your flavoring additives.
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Re: Clarifying Whiskey

Post by Odinson88 »

River Rat wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 5:12 pm
Odinson88 wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 11:13 am I found it appears rapidly if the jar is put into a freezer. The "cloud" almost solidifies and floats as a mas in the center (vertically and horizontally) of the jar.
Cold brings out the oils. All my low wines from stripping runs do that very same thing when they get real cold in my out building during the winter. Looks like a white cloud of jelly floating in the center of the jugs. I agree it's some sort of oils from your flavoring additives.

Thanks for feedback.
Still, it frustrates me and I need to make it Jennifer, lol
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Re: Clarifying Whiskey

Post by Odinson88 »

A friend, who knows ZERO about distilling suggested this...

"What if you put a vessel in a deep freezer and ran a drain through the freezer drain..."

This sounds ok in theory. However, there is ZERO way of seeing what is draining, you will have to use rubber/vinyl gaskets for taps, rubber tubing to drain, and elevate the freezer to an impractical height.
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Re: Clarifying Whiskey

Post by The Baker »

Glass door on freezer??

Actually a lot of commercial ones do have glass doors...

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Re: Clarifying Whiskey

Post by River Rat »

Try getting it as cold as possible, deep freezer or something, then pull it out and immediately run it through a coffee filter or paper towel. I did that once with the low wine and then put it back on the shelf just to see what would happen. It worked pretty well. The filtered jug stayed clear. Once the paper towels dried you could see some of the sediment on them.
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Re: Clarifying Whiskey

Post by Odinson88 »

River Rat wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 5:57 pm Try getting it as cold as possible, deep freezer or something, then pull it out and immediately run it through a coffee filter or paper towel. I did that once with the low wine and then put it back on the shelf just to see what would happen. It worked pretty well. The filtered jug stayed clear. Once the paper towels dried you could see some of the sediment on them.
That sounds plausible. Cheers
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Re: Clarifying Whiskey

Post by Sporacle »

Odinson88 wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 6:01 pm I tried a search, and it didnt return my needs, so forgive me if I missed something.

I made and rapid aged (freezer method) a batch of whiskey.
flavoured with Cinnamon, Cloves, Peppercorn and Vanilla bean.
Turned out great. Tastes great.

I found that when jarred, and let to sit, it shows a .... settlement. not solids, it looks more like backwash or something. I suspect its an oil or fibre from the cinnamon or vanilla bean maybe?

any ideas how to clear it up?

I want it to look as sexy as it tastes, and store some away and it look just as good years from now.

Thanks
Does the settlement look anything like this
1621477139756.jpg
sorry about the bad photo, you can see the settlement around the base
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Re: Clarifying Whiskey

Post by Toxxyc »

Here's a pic of a rum I made a few weeks ago. I added orange peel and it made this powdery sludge that clouded up the rum completely. It looked HORRIBLE, like I wouldn't even drink it. I panicked for a bit and then decided just to let it sit. We're entering winter so maybe the cold helped, but most of it settled out after a few weeks and yesterday I ran it through a filter. I placed a coffee filter in a funnel (yes, a plastic funnel, I had no other option), and covered the top of the filter with a paper towel. The idea is that the paper towel will catch most of the large pieces and the coffee filter will get the small ones. I've filtered straight through a coffee filter before and it clogs up FAST, so I thought this would help.

It did. In around an hour's time I filtered the whole 6.5 litres of rum, and the result is crystal clear:

Image
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Re: Clarifying Whiskey

Post by Chucker »

Odinson88 wrote: Wed May 19, 2021 11:13 am
Chucker wrote: Tue May 18, 2021 7:23 pm ...
What does work, and I don’t like the extra step, is a little bentonite slurry. It will settle the fines in a matter of days and the liquid is easily decanted from the settled mass.
Bentonite as in the clay?
What do you mix it with for your slurry, straight water?
And what sort of quantity are you putting in, say 5Gal?

Interesting.


I found it appears rapidly if the jar is put into a freezer. The "cloud" almost solidifies and floats as a mas in the center (vertically and horizontally) of the jar.
Yes, the clay. When I first started and was looking for clarification aids this was the one that was neutral. Not meant for protein haze, though. Strictly a floc agent.
It doesn’t take much water to form a slurry but takes a bit of time to hydrate properly for use. I usually do this in a gallon jug. Maybe a tbsp with a 1/4 cup of hot water. There has to be enough water to be pourable; the stuff will actually form a wet gel otherwise. Of this mixture I put maybe a tbsp or two into the jug after it fully hydrates (takes maybe 1/2 hr). Shake it up and leave it alone for a few days. Solids will floc out without affecting color or flavor.
Sometimes I’ll decant this and save the jug with the bottom sludge. Just dump another jug on top and shake it up again. Jugs don’t decant really well due to the curved neck. After I do enough (no more jugs needing treatment) I’ll put the bottom liquid into a jar and just decant the odd nip for garage tasting.
When I’ve wrung out all I can the rest goes back into another wash or the pot. Either way it’s getting redistilled.
Yes, solids pattern in the thread appear similar- a mid-level, swirly looking sediment that will go to the bottom over time.
I’ve tried filtering in winter months (sub freezing around here) through a coffee filter and they clog quickly but don’t remove this stuff fully at all. I think more passes than is retained. Once settled and decanted with clay it goes through a coffee filter with minimal clogging and remains clear and sediment free at normal room temps. Sometimes extreme cold will make some reappear but it will go away on its own as temp returns to normal.
It’s nice to see that this isn’t unique to me!
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