Same batch looks different.

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Justinthunder
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Same batch looks different.

Post by Justinthunder »

This is my first attempt at a ujssm, I’ve done some apple Brandy and some oat and rye whisky. So what I have done here is I boiled 7.5 gallons of water, added 14lbs of sugar and stirred it then added 14lbs of milled corn. Then I added the rest of the water to help cool it at the end. The only difference is that I opened a new bag of the exact same corn. The one on the right almost looks like I have added malt. It’s thinner than the other but also has floaties on top rather than a thicker porridge like the other. Any one have any thoughts? I’d hate to lose a whole ferment because of something small.
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Hambone
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Re: Same batch looks different.

Post by Hambone »

Bag to bag differences happen. Sometimes at mills you can end up with mixtures of grains when they change what they are running…

Because in UJSSM the corn is for flavor instead of starch, I doubt there would be any problem.
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NZChris
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Re: Same batch looks different.

Post by NZChris »

Could it be because the temperature was different when adding the corn?

The UJSSM method doesn't use enzymes, so you don't want any gelatinization happening, which is what happens when you put corn into hot water. If you don't have enzymes to add, you might be in trouble.
Justinthunder
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Re: Same batch looks different.

Post by Justinthunder »

NZChris wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 7:00 pm Could it be because the temperature was different when adding the corn?

The UJSSM method doesn't use enzymes, so you don't want any gelatinization happening, which is what happens when you put corn into hot water. If you don't have enzymes to add, you might be in trouble.
Okay, it wouldn’t be my first time trying to strain a very cloudy mixture, my rye was very challenging, I’ll check it in a week and hopefully it cleared up, if not I may have a couple hours of straining with my sieve. It was starting to bubble within 5 mins of pitching, only time will tell I guess, thanks for the input NZ
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NZChris
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Re: Same batch looks different.

Post by NZChris »

The problem with gelatinization is that it puts unconverted starch into the wash. You can't filter that out, or settle it out, you can only convert it to sugar and ferment it, or try to strip with it still in the wash.

With a correctly done UJSSM, there is little starch in the still charge to get burned onto the bottom, or onto elements.
Justinthunder
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Re: Same batch looks different.

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Hopefully it didn’t gelatinize, the water actually wasn’t at a boil it did have some bubbles coming up, I then pitched the 14 lbs of sugar stirred it then added the corn, waited about an hour then topped it off with the cold water and let it sit for about 4 hours before I pitched my yeast. Will it be a big mess to run? It’s probably way to late to add a little malt now, we don’t have any of the enzymes you guys use here in Alberta, I’ve looked everywhere.
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NZChris
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Re: Same batch looks different.

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Justinthunder wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 5:33 pm It’s thinner than the other but also has floaties on top rather than a thicker porridge like the other
That sounds gelatinized to me. You're going to have trouble boiling porridge without a burn on. Keep them separate.
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Saltbush Bill
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Re: Same batch looks different.

Post by Saltbush Bill »

For what its worth , for 8-9 years and many many generations of UJJSM I have always poured boiling backset over the fresh grains I add to my UJ, this is to let them soften before adding them to the UJ feremters. These grains are always fresh ground from whole grain just prior to getting soaked. They are ground at a medium grind. The reason I do it that way is to try and extract maximum flavour from the grains.
Never in all of that time have I encountered any of the problems that Chris is talking about.
The only way you would turn it to thick porridge in un-insulated buckets is if you ground it to fine flour first IMO.
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Re: Same batch looks different.

Post by NZChris »

A sure sign that you are in trouble is smoke coming out of the condenser. If that happens, shut down immediately.
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Hambone
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Re: Same batch looks different.

Post by Hambone »

I can’t imagine that you would have enough heat to gelatinize corn after adding that much sugar first, but nz Chris is correct. If it gelatinized but you didn’t convert the sugar it could become quite the scorchable mess.
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Saltbush Bill
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Re: Same batch looks different.

Post by Saltbush Bill »

Hambone wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 11:55 am can’t imagine that you would have enough heat to gelatinize corn after adding that much sugar
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Justinthunder
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Re: Same batch looks different.

Post by Justinthunder »

Okay, thanks guys, do you think running my still slow would help? Maybe once it starts coming out the Liebig dial back the heat a bit? I am running a propane burner on a pot still with a thump
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Hambone
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Re: Same batch looks different.

Post by Hambone »

Strain it first, or beware…
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Justinthunder
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Re: Same batch looks different.

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Hambone wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 3:12 pm Strain it first, or beware…
Oh 100% I always filter out my grain the best I can before I pour it in.
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Re: Same batch looks different.

Post by Justinthunder »

Well I just took a look and the thicker one on the left had a nice big foam cap and bubbling away and the thin one on the right had a few bubbles here and there and almost no foam, I’ve never had this kind of trouble with my ag whiskeys, I also used us-05 yeast when I normally would use fleishmans bakers yeast
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Re: Same batch looks different.

Post by Hambone »

So….the “thick” one is just a grain cap? Do they taste differently? One ferment ahead of the other?
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Re: Same batch looks different.

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Hambone wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 4:04 pm So….the “thick” one is just a grain cap? Do they taste differently? One ferment ahead of the other?
I didn’t taste them, I just made these yesterday and didn’t wanna stick my hands in them yet.
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Saltbush Bill
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Re: Same batch looks different.

Post by Saltbush Bill »

Be a devil , stick a finger in.
Justinthunder
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Re: Same batch looks different.

Post by Justinthunder »

EE9135E2-72A7-4A27-B021-AB2B994F8B2E.jpeg
The foamier one has a bit of a beer taste already and the other started foaming over night and still tastes sweet, it may just be close behind the other
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Bushman
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Re: Same batch looks different.

Post by Bushman »

Maybe I missed something while reading through the thread but the post is only two days old. I would say let it go and see what happens.
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still_stirrin
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Re: Same batch looks different.

Post by still_stirrin »

Bushman wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 5:39 am Maybe I missed something while reading through the thread but the post is only two days old. I would say let it go and see what happens.
+1.

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Justinthunder
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Re: Same batch looks different.

Post by Justinthunder »

still_stirrin wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 6:01 am Being a “worry wart” is the scourge of this hobby. “Grow some patience”! Things will get easier as you gain “experience(s)”.
ss
I agree, but normally I do an ag whisky, this was my first swing at a ujssm and I wasn’t sure what was going on, 2 exact recipes look and are acting very different.
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