On grain ferment yield
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On grain ferment yield
So it's accepted that an on-grain ferment yields higher abv washes. But what are the losses in volume due to the grains? I'm currently stripping another white wheat enzyme mash which was made with 6.5kg of grain for 25L of water. (My first mash was actually a mixture of two 15L ones as I didn't have big enough fermenting buckets, but I've now moved to a set of 32L buckets). I squeezed out the grains 2 days ago and the bucket of very cloudy wash has sat for those 2 days settling out. Since the daylight was shining through it, it's been easy to watch the progress. Today I racked it off the trub into the boiler, but all in I don't think I got much more than about 16L of wash (I don't have graduations in my boiler so it's not easy to be certain. This is a area I need to get control over). It shouldn't be an issue since the last wash I stripped down to 20% producing about 6L and my element is covered at 9.5L of cold water, but I do wonder whether the volume trade-off of fermenting on the grain as opposed to sparging and fermenting off-grain actually means that the higher abv doesn't lead to a gain in final product volume.
Anyway, just musing while waiting for the stripping run to finish up. The next mash will be the same as I don't want to change the method partway through, but if no-one has any answers I'll maybe try and schedule in a test in the future.
Anyway, just musing while waiting for the stripping run to finish up. The next mash will be the same as I don't want to change the method partway through, but if no-one has any answers I'll maybe try and schedule in a test in the future.
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Re: On grain ferment yield
With a good squeezing regime and patients, I can recover about 23.5 gallons from a 25 gallon bourbon mash. A little more on a single malt mash.
Settling out the custard from the milky squeezins takes a week or two.
Settling out the custard from the milky squeezins takes a week or two.
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Re: On grain ferment yield
Ah. I should be leaving it considerably longer then. I'll try that on the next run and see where I end up. I don't have any fridge space in which to cold crash and I'm not convinced that bentonite is the solution.
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Re: On grain ferment yield
Yes it'll take a little longer but it's worth the time.
I recently discovered that if I put the wash into a clearing vessel with more surface area, it clears faster and the cake is more dense. Rather than clearing in a 5 gallon bucket, try clearing in a large cooler. See if that helps.
Clearing in my 30 gallon drum is faster than 5 gallon buckets.
I recently discovered that if I put the wash into a clearing vessel with more surface area, it clears faster and the cake is more dense. Rather than clearing in a 5 gallon bucket, try clearing in a large cooler. See if that helps.
Clearing in my 30 gallon drum is faster than 5 gallon buckets.
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Re: On grain ferment yield
Interesting. My 32L buckets are the biggest I've got though. If I can work out a way of getting the buckets in and out with shaking them too much I can stick them under the house (a ventilated shallow basement) which seems to hold a temp of around 15 degrees. But I don't know how easy that'll be and it runs the risk of shaking them up.
I'll probably just run the wineos shine that I was planning on running after, first which will give the next mash plenty of post-squeezing time to settle out. Just going to need to work out the logistics of storing that much low wines.
I'll probably just run the wineos shine that I was planning on running after, first which will give the next mash plenty of post-squeezing time to settle out. Just going to need to work out the logistics of storing that much low wines.
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Re: On grain ferment yield
I hear ya. Ive got two 30 gallon fermenters, 5 buckets, 3 corny kegs, and a 5 gallon carboy, and I keep thinking I need more buckets. But what I really want is a 120 liter SS drum for a mashing/fermenting vessel. maybe some day...
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Re: On grain ferment yield
I'm still hesitating over a 220L SS drum. The price is not too bad, but I'm twitchy about the shipping. I also can't really use it for the minute. In my dreams I would put in heating elements, an integrated wort chiller and a drill powered paddle and have an all-in-one solution for large scale mashing.
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Re: On grain ferment yield
17 pounds of grain & 7.5 gallons water gives me 7 gallons squeezed. I don’t let anything clear. If it makes it through my paint strainer bag then it goes into my propane fired copper pot. Works great.
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Re: On grain ferment yield
But what are the losses in volume due to the grains?
If you can distil on the grain alcohol losses should be minimal.
Geoff
If you can distil on the grain alcohol losses should be minimal.
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Re: On grain ferment yield
That.
Or you can dilute the sediment / presscake with water and let it clear again.
Or you can dilute the sediment / presscake with water and let it clear again.
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Re: On grain ferment yield
This is probably the easiest way i've seen so I'm doing that next AG run. Strips go pretty fast so topping the fermenter up with water and racking for another strip or two is even easier than squeezing and the strip will be what it is as far as low-wines volume.. Then maybe a sugarhead..
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i prefer my mash shaken, not stirred
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i prefer my mash shaken, not stirred
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Re: On grain ferment yield
There is no loss compared to off-grain.NormandieStill wrote: ↑Sun Jun 27, 2021 11:10 am But what are the losses in volume due to the grains?
You're either losing unfermented sugars (potential alcohol) or fermented sugars (alcohol). Take your pick.
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Re: On grain ferment yield
there's no loss if you throw everything in the still
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Re: On grain ferment yield
There is one loss: the clean taste of a non-yeast-tainted spirit. I found this out after 18mo's aging on oak. This (and scorching) is why some distillers invest in the extra work involved in clearing. Of course, if one's palette palate does not recognize yeast notes, one is in the clear.
Last edited by Twisted Brick on Wed Jul 21, 2021 6:57 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: On grain ferment yield
My 25 gallon all grain mashes yield an average of about 22.5 gallons for the still after squeezin the grain dry and resting the murky stuff to settle out. I could probably get more with a conical to clear the custard a little better.
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Re: On grain ferment yield
Twisted Brick wrote: ↑Tue Jul 20, 2021 12:30 pmThere is one loss: the clean taste of a non-yeast-tainted spirit. I found this out after 18mo's aging on oak. This (and scorching) is why some distillers invest in the extra work involved in clearing. Of course, if one's palette does not recognize yeast notes, one is in the clear.
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Re: On grain ferment yield
one thing is clear lol