New to column build

Other discussions for folks new to the wonderful craft of home distilling.

Moderator: Site Moderator

Post Reply
Snickers902
Novice
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2020 10:46 pm

New to column build

Post by Snickers902 »

Hi all,
Gonna sound like a rookie here, but here goes. Just finished a column build, would label it a liquid management. Needle valve reflux. Any who, is there a point where too much copper ia packed in the column?? I used rolled copper mesh, but took 4 hrs to get temp at top of column and is rediculous slow in condensing. Is it possible to pack/ stuff too much in the column? Seems like a blocked column.
User avatar
Saltbush Bill
Site Mod
Posts: 9675
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 2:13 am
Location: Northern NSW Australia

Re: New to column build

Post by Saltbush Bill »

Blow through the column using your mouth.........if it's easy its not blocked.
User avatar
Yummyrum
Global moderator
Posts: 7653
Joined: Sat Jul 06, 2013 2:23 am
Location: Fraser Coast QLD Aussie

Re: New to column build

Post by Yummyrum »

The number one symptom of too tight packing is the column floods . It will be making gurgling noises and ultimately hot liqid starts splurting out the atmosphere vent at the top .

From what you say , it sounds like your problem is not enough heat .

You aren’t doing something like trying to use a PID controller on it are you ?
User avatar
acfixer69
Global moderator
Posts: 4826
Joined: Mon Dec 20, 2010 3:34 pm
Location: CT USA

Re: New to column build

Post by acfixer69 »

What are you using to heat the boiler? How much wash are you heating? If you over packed the column it would flood first unless completely stopped up. Four hours sounds like your under powered.
posted with yummy
User avatar
LWTCS
Site Mod
Posts: 12836
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 6:04 pm
Location: North Palm Beach

Re: New to column build

Post by LWTCS »

70 watts per liter for a 1 hour heat up time.
Twice that for twice as fast.
Trample the injured and hurdle the dead.
The Baker
Master of Distillation
Posts: 4659
Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2006 4:48 am
Location: Northern Victoria, Australia

Re: New to column build

Post by The Baker »

Saltbush Bill wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 12:11 pm Blow through the column using your mouth.........if it's easy its not blocked.
Don't suck, there might be a spider there.

Geoff
The Baker
User avatar
Deplorable
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 3984
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:10 pm
Location: In the East, (IYKYK)

Re: New to column build

Post by Deplorable »

The Baker wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 5:06 pm
Saltbush Bill wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 12:11 pm Blow through the column using your mouth.........if it's easy its not blocked.
Don't suck, there might be a spider there.

Geoff
:lol:
Fear and ridicule are the tactics of weak-minded cowards and tyrants who have no other leadership talent from which to draw in order to persuade.
Snickers902
Novice
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2020 10:46 pm

Re: New to column build

Post by Snickers902 »

Well, here's the untold story, and I thank you all for your input.
Started with 6 gallon mash, 6.5 lb cracked corn, 2 lb malted barley , 2 lb oats, 5 lb sugar (corn syrup) 5 gal water. Used amylase on oats. Strained hard grains out. Filteref througj cheese cloth into boiler. Started 5 gal. On new 1500 wat cast iron burner with 2inch column 40" and 10inch double wound 1/4" copper condenser coil offset through 1 1/2 copper bypass, needle valve reflux on 1/4" line and 3/8" discharge line. Produced 1 gal. At 185 after 10 hrs. Could say Iwas conservative to slow on heat, 1st time on hot plate. Got it to 175 and dialed back to prolong cook time through 195.cuts are prestine. Although heavy on the barley after taste.

I
Snickers902
Novice
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2020 10:46 pm

Re: New to column build

Post by Snickers902 »

The number one symptom of too tight packing is the column floods . It will be making gurgling noises and ultimately hot liqid starts splurting out the atmosphere vent at the top .


What is purpose of atmosphere vent and whete do I install it?
greggn
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 1380
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2014 11:59 am
Location: East Coast

Re: New to column build

Post by greggn »

Snickers902 wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:54 am Got it to 175 and dialed back to prolong cook time through 195.

The boiling point of your wash is determined by its %ABV. You can't extract the alcohol by simply running your still at 173F.
________________

I drank fifty pounds of feed-store corn
'till my clothes were ratty and torn
OtisT
Master of Distillation
Posts: 3179
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2015 11:59 am
Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: New to column build

Post by OtisT »

Agree with folks above, you limited power is the cause of your long warmups and long run times. Packing density won’t impact heat up time (much). Copper mesh is the quickest to heat up, with rocks/marbles/ceramic taking more time due to the extra mass.

Insulating your boiler could help speed things up a little for you. Less heat lost to the air means more heat to reflux and collect as product.

Otis
Otis’ Pot and Thumper, Dimroth Condenser: Pot-n-Thumper/Dimroth
Learning to Toast: Toasting Wood
Polishing Spirits with Fruitwood: Fruitwood
Badmotivator’s Barrels: Badmo Barrels
Snickers902
Novice
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2020 10:46 pm

Re: New to column build

Post by Snickers902 »

The boiling point of your wash is determined by its %ABV. You can't extract the alcohol by simply running your still at 173F.
________________

Greggn
Could you explain further to me how %ABV has to do with determining boiling point. Am a science buff, but not a chemist.
greggn
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 1380
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2014 11:59 am
Location: East Coast

Re: New to column build

Post by greggn »

Snickers902 wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 8:31 am Could you explain further to me how %ABV has to do with determining boiling point. Am a science buff, but not a chemist.

This explains it pretty well ...

http://www.kelleybarts.com/PhotoXfer/Re ... gMyth.html
________________

I drank fifty pounds of feed-store corn
'till my clothes were ratty and torn
Snickers902
Novice
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2020 10:46 pm

Re: New to column build

Post by Snickers902 »

That was awsome. Thank you. So as if I actually understand it, the more solids in the wash raises the boiling point by its density, not its viscosity.
User avatar
acfixer69
Global moderator
Posts: 4826
Joined: Mon Dec 20, 2010 3:34 pm
Location: CT USA

Re: New to column build

Post by acfixer69 »

No. The solids don't change the boiling point. You can add a box of rocks to the boiler with the wash and the boiling point will be the same. You need to read again and again maybe. The composition of the wash determines the BP not the ABV.
User avatar
Yummyrum
Global moderator
Posts: 7653
Joined: Sat Jul 06, 2013 2:23 am
Location: Fraser Coast QLD Aussie

Re: New to column build

Post by Yummyrum »

Snickers902 wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 1:02 am What is purpose of atmosphere vent and whete do I install it?
All stills have to have a free path to the outside . In the case of a Pot still , its via the liebig or worm .

Now you said you have an offset still . When you close all the valves , there must be somewhere for the vapour to go .
Normally , it would be condensed by the reflux condenser and return back down the column .

But….. if there is too much vapour fir the RC to cope with , or the column is going into a flooded state , then pressure will start to build .
It must be able to escape . Hense some kind of atmosphere vent .
If your RC is simply sitting in the shell , thats fine , there is a free path out at the top .
2524DB4C-E6F5-444C-8511-099CC07F1E3A.jpeg
But if the RC is fitted to a top cap , then there must be a hole or vent pipe fitted to the top cap .
CF2B2BD0-2C55-4D2A-A637-622885E18CDD.jpeg
CF2B2BD0-2C55-4D2A-A637-622885E18CDD.jpeg (27.47 KiB) Viewed 861 times
In this pic , you can see a small vent pipe between the coolant lines in the cap .
6E8571A0-F8EF-44D8-A816-78378B083BCC.jpeg
6E8571A0-F8EF-44D8-A816-78378B083BCC.jpeg (38.12 KiB) Viewed 861 times
Snickers902
Novice
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2020 10:46 pm

Re: New to column build

Post by Snickers902 »

I have a trimeter guage which monitors pressure as well with a 3lb release valve, sort of like a pressure cooker. By the sounds of the atmospheric vent it allows vapors to escape without condensation, which I try to avoid. But your explanation is awsome, thank you! And the pics give a great visual. Though my pressure valve is at a point atop the column above the offset. Does that matter?
v-child
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 256
Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2019 6:56 am

Re: New to column build

Post by v-child »

Most people using a reflux column have a vent (without pressure relief) to the atmosphere. This allows us to dial the cooling water down or up depending... I think most of us aim for a hot but slow trickle from the reflux coil return line to get a good reflux action. If you have vapors coming out of your vent just increase the water flow by a smidgen until it goes away. It's all about balance.
User avatar
Saltbush Bill
Site Mod
Posts: 9675
Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 2:13 am
Location: Northern NSW Australia

Re: New to column build

Post by Saltbush Bill »

v-child wrote: Thu Aug 26, 2021 10:58 am Most people using a reflux column have a vent (without pressure relief) to the atmosphere.
Not most, ALL SHOULD HAVE.....all stills need to be open to atmosphere at all times.
Post Reply