How cold to run output condenser?

Other discussions for folks new to the wonderful craft of home distilling.

Moderator: Site Moderator

Post Reply
User avatar
squigglefunk
Trainee
Posts: 886
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2021 9:27 am

How cold to run output condenser?

Post by squigglefunk »

I was taught "the colder the better" - we used bags of ice in a recirculating cooler full of water and kept it icy cold.

As I run my own still I use cold stream water in the condenser, not ice cold, but I don't recirculate, the distillate comes off the still feeling cold/cool to the touch and the jars will gather condensation as they fill. The water coming out of the condenser is usually warm to the touch. I have never had problems with my condenser not keeping up with the output at all. I am filling a quart jar every 10 mins or so.

So is there a "proper" temp? I was taught the colder it is the cleaner it will taste and in my mind it made sense? :wtf: :crazy:
User avatar
Deplorable
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 3984
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:10 pm
Location: In the East, (IYKYK)

Re: How cold to run output condenser?

Post by Deplorable »

It only needs to be cold enough to knock down all the vapor. Manage the temp of the discharge water to maximize efficiency if you recycle.
If I was using an unlimited supply of cool water, I'd run my condenser so the distillate came off at the same temp my hydrometer is calibrated for.
Fear and ridicule are the tactics of weak-minded cowards and tyrants who have no other leadership talent from which to draw in order to persuade.
User avatar
Twisted Brick
Master of Distillation
Posts: 3770
Joined: Sat Mar 09, 2013 4:54 pm
Location: Craigh Na Dun

Re: How cold to run output condenser?

Post by Twisted Brick »

There is no 'proper' temp, but like Deplorable says, the rule of thumb is to have the capacity to knock down the vapor your heat source creates. "Colder equals cleaner" is a myth. A well-known Scottish distillery runs their coolant water "warm" (at expense) because they feel it has a positive effect on flavor.

This is a commonly-asked question. Some good responses here .
“Always carry a flagon of whiskey in case of snakebite, and furthermore, always carry a small snake.”

- W.C. Fields

My EZ Solder Shotgun
My Steam Rig and Manometer
User avatar
Demy
Master of Distillation
Posts: 3084
Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2020 1:45 pm

Re: How cold to run output condenser?

Post by Demy »

Generally the minimum amount of water is recommended that you can release your distillate at fresh temperature, you are looking for minimal waste and maximum efficiency. It is not necessary for the distillate bait at "polar" temperatures, as long as it is not hot.
User avatar
squigglefunk
Trainee
Posts: 886
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2021 9:27 am

Re: How cold to run output condenser?

Post by squigglefunk »

thank you, sorry I did not seem to find the answers from searching... I guess I am doing just fine on that aspect and I do re-use all the water for my gardens, chickens,goats, etc.
User avatar
S-Cackalacky
retired
Posts: 5990
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2013 4:35 pm
Location: Virginia, USA

Re: How cold to run output condenser?

Post by S-Cackalacky »

Best to have a temp gradient of cool at the bottom to warm at the top. Icy cold can cause huffing from the vapor suddenly collapsing at the top of the condenser. Seems best to have the vapor gradually condensing as it moves down through the vapor tube(s). But, like others have said, probably not a big deal as long as all the vapor gets condensed.
Every new member should read this before doing anything else:
Setsumi
Distiller
Posts: 1371
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2010 10:23 pm
Location: Central South Africa

Re: How cold to run output condenser?

Post by Setsumi »

And then when you get into reflux you need to watch out for super cooling.. but on a potstill cool product is fine, coĺd if you have the water is just fine as well.
My first flute
My press
My twins
My controller
My wife tells me I fell from heaven covered in white. Why did they let me fall?
User avatar
Hambone
Rumrunner
Posts: 509
Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2020 7:24 am
Location: MO, just around the bend...

Re: How cold to run output condenser?

Post by Hambone »

Just cool enough. I don’t think that spirit run output being a touch warm hurts anything. After all, we let jars sit for a day or two to let the most volatiles air out…so what harm could a slightly warm output cause?
Good judgement is the result of experience.

Experience is usually the result of bad judgement..
User avatar
TwoSheds
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 569
Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2021 5:49 pm
Location: New England, USA

Re: How cold to run output condenser?

Post by TwoSheds »

Setsumi wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 8:48 am And then when you get into reflux you need to watch out for super cooling..
Super cooling? That's a new one to me... What's the concern?

I need something else to worry about... (LOL)
Setsumi
Distiller
Posts: 1371
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2010 10:23 pm
Location: Central South Africa

Re: How cold to run output condenser?

Post by Setsumi »

TwoSheds wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 9:15 am
Setsumi wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 8:48 am And then when you get into reflux you need to watch out for super cooling..
Super cooling? That's a new one to me... What's the concern?

I need something else to worry about... (LOL)
You need to read back far on this... on a PACKED REFLUX for neutral you do not want your refluxed liquid too cold. If it is too cold it drops lower down your column and the higher proof mixes with more lower proof. This lowers your columns efficiency or shortens the reflux column... less purity.

On a plated/flute column (lower efficiency in terms of reboiling/ purity) i suspect it may return more alc to the boiler. So it will lower energy efficiency.

If you chase numbers or mind dimes it certainly is something to mind.
My first flute
My press
My twins
My controller
My wife tells me I fell from heaven covered in white. Why did they let me fall?
User avatar
squigglefunk
Trainee
Posts: 886
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2021 9:27 am

Re: How cold to run output condenser?

Post by squigglefunk »

Setsumi wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 9:33 am You need to read back far on this... on a PACKED REFLUX for neutral you do not want your refluxed liquid too cold. If it is too cold it drops lower down your column and the higher proof mixes with more lower proof. This lowers your columns efficiency or shortens the reflux column... less purity.

On a plated/flute column (lower efficiency in terms of reboiling/ purity) i suspect it may return more alc to the boiler. So it will lower energy efficiency.

If you chase numbers or mind dimes it certainly is something to mind.
I have seen where the water is routed first through the output condenser then to the reflux condenser as this will be warmer water, could I do a method such as this?
User avatar
squigglefunk
Trainee
Posts: 886
Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2021 9:27 am

Re: How cold to run output condenser?

Post by squigglefunk »

Setsumi wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 8:48 am And then when you get into reflux you need to watch out for super cooling.. but on a potstill cool product is fine, coĺd if you have the water is just fine as well.
thanks for the info :thumbup:
Sporacle
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 1149
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2021 10:45 pm

Re: How cold to run output condenser?

Post by Sporacle »

:D Just increase the time that the water spends in the condensor by restricting the flow rate that will increase the amount of contact time and increase the final temp
" you can pick your nose and you can pick your friends; but you can't always wipe your friends off on your saddle" sage advice from Kinky Friedman
Setsumi
Distiller
Posts: 1371
Joined: Tue Sep 07, 2010 10:23 pm
Location: Central South Africa

Re: How cold to run output condenser?

Post by Setsumi »

squigglefunk wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 10:20 am
Setsumi wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 9:33 am You need to read back far on this... on a PACKED REFLUX for neutral you do not want your refluxed liquid too cold. If it is too cold it drops lower down your column and the higher proof mixes with more lower proof. This lowers your columns efficiency or shortens the reflux column... less purity.

On a plated/flute column (lower efficiency in terms of reboiling/ purity) i suspect it may return more alc to the boiler. So it will lower energy efficiency.

If you chase numbers or mind dimes it certainly is something to mind.
I have seen where the water is routed first through the output condenser then to the reflux condenser as this will be warmer water, could I do a method such as this?
Yes for LM, VM and CCVM reflux management heads it works. For CM you may need seperate cooling lines or at least a way to manage the cooling paths individualy.
My first flute
My press
My twins
My controller
My wife tells me I fell from heaven covered in white. Why did they let me fall?
User avatar
Demy
Master of Distillation
Posts: 3084
Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2020 1:45 pm

Re: How cold to run output condenser?

Post by Demy »

squigglefunk wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 10:20 am
Setsumi wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 9:33 am You need to read back far on this... on a PACKED REFLUX for neutral you do not want your refluxed liquid too cold. If it is too cold it drops lower down your column and the higher proof mixes with more lower proof. This lowers your columns efficiency or shortens the reflux column... less purity.

On a plated/flute column (lower efficiency in terms of reboiling/ purity) i suspect it may return more alc to the boiler. So it will lower energy efficiency.

If you chase numbers or mind dimes it certainly is something to mind.
I have seen where the water is routed first through the output condenser then to the reflux condenser as this will be warmer water, could I do a method such as this?
It's what I do on CCVM, it works well but it will work as well if you have separate lines, just let the water scroll slowly.
User avatar
NZChris
Master of Distillation
Posts: 13062
Joined: Tue Apr 23, 2013 2:42 am
Location: New Zealand

Re: How cold to run output condenser?

Post by NZChris »

Control the distillate temperature, not the water temperature. I automate mine so that I don't have to fiddle with it and to minimise water use. The water out is usually too hot to hold your finger under.
Post Reply