Making brass fittings safe for use in a still

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Asos21
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Making brass fittings safe for use in a still

Post by Asos21 »

So I'm going to be using a range of elbow fittings and a tank connector which are all brass. I originally thought these was copper when I bought them.

These fittings are all manufactured in the UK to EN1254-2.

I don't really want to full scale pickle them as I'm aware this can lead to more release of lead if the pickling time is to long. It seems like a risky option to me.

I was considering a simple vinegar bath for an hour or so followed by a spirit run through the still which I would discard.

The distillate will be redistilled again in an all copper still. As the still using the brass is just being used to strip to low wines.

Let's say I have 10l of low wines with a contamination of 7% lead. An extremely toxic and potentially lethal concentration. If I re distill them low wines in a separate all copper unit would this separate out all the lead leaving it in the boiler? Or could some be carried over in the spirit run? Just considering actual worst case scenario here. I know it would never reach 7% in actual reality.

I just want to be as safe as I can with all this as it is just a hobby!
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still_stirrin
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Re: Making brass fittings safe for use in a still

Post by still_stirrin »

Asos21 wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 2:56 am … I just want to be as safe as I can with all this as it is just a hobby!
Ditch the lead contaminated brass fittings.

Don’t try to use a “what not to do” piece of hardware and ask us how to “make it safe”. Safety is the 1st order of business here, so don’t keep asking this type of question. You won’t get a different answer.
ss
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Asos21
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Re: Making brass fittings safe for use in a still

Post by Asos21 »

still_stirrin wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 4:04 am
Asos21 wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 2:56 am … I just want to be as safe as I can with all this as it is just a hobby!
Ditch the lead contaminated brass fittings.

Don’t try to use a “what not to do” piece of hardware and ask us how to “make it safe”. Safety is the 1st order of business here, so don’t keep asking this type of question. You won’t get a different answer.
ss
Countless members on here use brass compression fittings in their stills? They do it safely and they are still here.

I don't see the problem with asking this sort of question. So other members who have done this safely can give input?

It's a bit silly to say

Don’t try to use a “what not to do” piece of hardware and ask us how to “make it safe”

When countless members on here use the brass compression fittings. Especially the tank connectors.
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still_stirrin
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Re: Making brass fittings safe for use in a still

Post by still_stirrin »

In the USA there is “lead-free” brass used in potable water systems. The fittings are not manufactured to the European spec. So, all things are not equal.

Also, if a hobbiest elects to use an “unsafe” material in their process, then they’ve chosen to sacrifice their, and others’, safety. But it is NEVER PROMOTED HERE. Safety is paramount.

There have been discussions regarding “pickling” or “silvering” brass on the website. Does that make it safe? You decide.

You have asked to make your brass fittings “safe” and there is no real approach to do that. The specification you’ve referenced includes leaded brass. If you use the fittings, then you accept the risk.

Arguing this perspective will only result in getting this thread locked. So, lets agree that safety shall prevail.
ss
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Asos21
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Re: Making brass fittings safe for use in a still

Post by Asos21 »

still_stirrin wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 8:01 am In the USA there is “lead-free” brass used in potable water systems. The fittings are not manufactured to the European spec. So, all things are not equal.

Also, if a hobbiest elects to use an “unsafe” material in their process, then they’ve chosen to sacrifice their, and others’, safety. But it is NEVER PROMOTED HERE. Safety is paramount.

There have been discussions regarding “pickling” or “silvering” brass on the website. Does that make it safe? You decide.

You have asked to make your brass fittings “safe” and there is no real approach to do that. The specification you’ve referenced includes leaded brass. If you use the fittings, then you accept the risk.

Arguing this perspective will only result in getting this thread locked. So, lets agree that safety shall prevail.
ss
Yes I completely agree that safety shall prevail. Hence the very reason for this thread.

From some research distillation is the most effective method for removing heavy metals such as lead from drinking water.

So providing I redistill the distillate in an all copper setup would it really matter if the low wines contained small amounts of lead?

They should be left behind in the boiler on the second run shouldn't they?

The whole point of this thread is to discuss the possible methods for making brass safe for use in distillation. And if it's not safe then a method at which I could still use the setup as discussed above.
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still_stirrin
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Re: Making brass fittings safe for use in a still

Post by still_stirrin »

Asos,

You have consistently asked this type of questions of the forum, those questions which argue against our website’s rules, from the use of plastic containers for low wines storage to the use of JB weld and silicone adhesives in the vapor path. Several of these have been locked eventually and you’ve undoubtedly been warned about it.

I am not a moderator or an administrator, so all I can do is follow the rules and espouse safety. And I am trying to be civil in my response to your repeated inquiry because I don’t want to escalate it further.

So, if you’ve read the forum and have found discussions where others have found a method to use brass fittings successfully (notice I didn’t say, “safely”), then you should understand your risks if you choose to follow that guidance. But, it is BEST for followup new hobbiests to avoid the risks YOU choose to accept.

Let’s stop further discussion here about how to “circumvent the rules”.
ss
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Asos21
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Re: Making brass fittings safe for use in a still

Post by Asos21 »

still_stirrin wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 8:42 am Asos,

You have consistently asked this type of questions of the forum, those questions which argue against our website’s rules, from the use of plastic containers for low wines storage to the use of JB weld and silicone adhesives in the vapor path. Several of these have been locked eventually and you’ve undoubtedly been warned about it.

I am not a moderator or an administrator, so all I can do is follow the rules and espouse safety. And I am trying to be civil in my response to your repeated inquiry because I don’t want to escalate it further.

So, if you’ve read the forum and have found discussions where others have found a method to use brass fittings successfully (notice I didn’t say, “safely”), then you should understand your risks if you choose to follow that guidance. But, it is BEST for followup new hobbiests to avoid the risks YOU choose to accept.

Let’s stop further discussion here about how to “circumvent the rules”.
ss
I'm sorry SS but nothing in the rules states that it's against the forum policies to discuss brass fittings. Nor do any rules prevent the discussion of pickling of brass fittings.

You can't just invent rules to shut down discussions. A forum is for the sharing of information and as nothing in the rules prohibites this discussion there is no reason why it should not be continued.

I'm not even convinced that brass fittings which are approved for use in hot drinking water systems are dangerous for use in distillation. After all lead is not soluble in ethanol at any temeprature.

So far the only thing that says these hot drinking water approved fittings shouldn't be used in distillation is bro science. So you can't actually claim it's not safe or dangerous. Because you aren't stating a proven fact with sources to back it up.

I've contacted the manufacturer for information on if the fittings even contain lead and if they are suitable for use in distillation.
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squigglefunk
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Re: Making brass fittings safe for use in a still

Post by squigglefunk »

be a hero, not a Nero... :)
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Kareltje
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Re: Making brass fittings safe for use in a still

Post by Kareltje »

Asos21 wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 2:56 am So I'm going to be using a range of elbow fittings and a tank connector which are all brass. I originally thought these was copper when I bought them.


Let's say I have 10l of low wines with a contamination of 7% lead. An extremely toxic and potentially lethal concentration. If I re distill them low wines in a separate all copper unit would this separate out all the lead leaving it in the boiler? Or could some be carried over in the spirit run? Just considering actual worst case scenario here. I know it would never reach 7% in actual reality.

I just want to be as safe as I can with all this as it is just a hobby!
I am using brass fittings too and I thought they were leadfree, but in fact they are not completly. So I looked around for some studies and found some that found out, that lead is fast emitting from this brass in the water. Can not find them now, but lead is present as small droplets between the matrixes of cupper and zinc. It is used to make shaping of the brass more smooth. Which I can envision.
I can not now find the articles, but I did some calculations and the surface of brass fittings I use in my all copper downgoing path did not pose a problem.
I know there were some problems in de USoA when moonshiners used leadsoldered cooling, but that is far behind us, I suppose.

How on earth did you get a low wine with 7 % lead? . 7 % of what, by the way?
And whether lead of lead-compounds are coming over? You should be doing some studying on chemics, because we can not help you on that.
cob
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Re: Making brass fittings safe for use in a still

Post by cob »

Nearly every fitting available in brass is also available in stainless steel.

You will not find support for unsafe practices here.
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Saltbush Bill
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Re: Making brass fittings safe for use in a still

Post by Saltbush Bill »

I'm of the same opinion, why even use brass when for a few extra bucks more you can get the same fittings in stainless.
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Re: Making brass fittings safe for use in a still

Post by cob »

Understanding the OP may be in the UK, and you are down under, on this side of the pond in my neck of the

woods the cost difference between stainless and brass is so small, that cost isn't even in the conversation.
Asos21 wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 5:06 am Countless members on here use brass compression fittings in their stills?
And thousands DON,T. Almost anyone can post a picture of a shit still here,

just because you see it does'nt mean it is an accepted or a good design.

Don't just lean towards safety stand squarely on it.
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Asos21
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Re: Making brass fittings safe for use in a still

Post by Asos21 »

Alright I've decided to take the countless recommendations on here and my own best judgement which says don't do it.

I'm not going to use the brass fittings. Even though the suitable alternatives in stainless steel are about 15 times the cost for each part. And for the life of me i cannot find a stainless steel tank connector.

Would a stainless steel bulkhead work for connecting the riser to the boiler?
NormandieStill
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Re: Making brass fittings safe for use in a still

Post by NormandieStill »

If you can do it, triclamp fittings are easier to work with once installed. Also Aliexpress is a good source for some parts if you can wait for the delivery (not sure what the situation is re: importing with the UK. I know things toughened up in Europe recently but it just seems to made customs clearance faster). Distilling UK is a good source of parts as well if you don't want to wait. In the end his shipping costs to Europe made me buy some bits elsewhere, but I may still go back to him for some CSST since I just can't get reasonable lengths from anywhere else.
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