T500 help

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Tresguey
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T500 help

Post by Tresguey »

Hi all, been brewing beer for close to 20 years. I have added a Brewzilla to my arsenal for small batches. YouTube talked me into buying a T500 to go on top of it as I’ve always been interested in distilling. I added the flow control pump deal that was suggested as well.

I’ve run it 3 times so far with a 12% and then twice with 14% sugar washes. The Brewzilla has a temp control on it. When I’ve run it I start getting distillate at about 194F (in the boiler) and the T500 at 55C -57C. Both heating elements are on full power. But the temp never raises until the run is about half way done. Then it starts raising. What temperature should I set the Brewzilla to?

I was proofing down my last run last night and something seemed strange. When I added water to the 186 proof distillate temperature raised from 72F to 82F. Keep in mind, both the water and distillate was originally 72F. Is this normal? The distillate was perfectly clear, but after adding water it got a bit cloudy and to me a very slight yellow tinge. I only proofed the first 2 pints. Nothing later in the run. I do separate the first 200ml, and fill pint jars from there.

I also just found out I am not supposed to immediately lid the distillate. I hear it should breath for about 2 days? I think I might try to build a bubble plate column for the Brewzilla… not sure..
NormandieStill
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Re: T500 help

Post by NormandieStill »

You need to do some reading. :wink:

You can't control the temperature of the wash, you can only control your power input.

I'm guessing that you're running washes as a one-and-done approach to make neutral. You'd be better off stripping to collect low wines and then running a spirit run (double distillation). You need to make cuts based on smell and taste, not volume. You can't keep everything that comes off the still.

Your beer brewing should stand you in good stead if you decide to try your hand at some AG stuff, but in the meantime start working your way through the required reading here in the forum. The google search box is also extremely useful for dealing with the huge amount of new terms that you're going to encounter.
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Dathhu
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Re: T500 help

Post by Dathhu »

Water and ethanol creates an exothermic reaction.
In layman's terms, mix the two together, they get hot.

Don't ask me to explain the chemistry of it all, covalent bonds etc. Molecules exchanging energy... Forgot most of that after school.


Will agree with NormandieStill though, stills aren't run by temp. To run properly, it's run by output, ie. the amount and percentage of spirit coming out of your still.

If you're brewzilla only had a temp control you need to look at a mod to regulate power instead. You don't want to hold temp, you want a constant, yet controllable power, heat source into your boiler.
Dathhu
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Re: T500 help

Post by Dathhu »

A power/voltage controller will work wonders.

Set the brewzilla to always on and use something to regulate the power input to the brewzilla.
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Saltbush Bill
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Re: T500 help

Post by Saltbush Bill »

Saltbush Bill wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 6:11 pm
Tresguey wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 10:19 am YouTube talked me into buying a T500
Be very wary of what you see and hear on Youtube, there is a lot of garbage from different folk there with a sprinkling of people who do know what they are talking about......but those are far n few between.
I don't have any experience using a Brewzilla Boiler with adjustable power, Ive only ever used the normal T500 boiler that runs at full power at all times.
From memory they run around 2000-2200W.......if you can set your boiler at about that you should be in the ball park.
Tresguey wrote: Fri Dec 03, 2021 10:19 am Both heating elements are on full power. But the temp never raises until the run is about half way done. Then it starts raising. What temperature should I set the Brewzilla to?
As stated by the others , you have no control of the temp of the boiler or contents........you can only control how much power/ energy you put into it.
Its a concept that that many newbs struggle with in the beginning.
howie
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Re: T500 help

Post by howie »

the brewzilla doesn't have a power control, which is what you need.
temp control is virtually useless in distilling.
however, don't despair, there are a few good threads on adding a power controller which makes the brewzilla a handy little hybrid machine for beer & distilling.
agree with normandie & SBB, you need to get your head around the power/temp concept (took me a while :lol: )
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Saltbush Bill
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Post by Saltbush Bill »

Thanks for sorting that Howie, I thought the original post meant that the boiler could be set to use different amounts of watts........different power input......apparently not!.....now that I re-read it.
As stated never seen one let alone used one.
Tresguey
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Re: T500 help

Post by Tresguey »

Thanks all for your input. My main concern was the temperature rise as I was proofing down. I was trying to use the conversion table based on temp and I was confused why it was so warm.

I have another Brewzilla that the control board went out but pump and heating elements are good. I do have a few PWM PID’s and solid state relays sitting around, I was thinking of making a control to run that similar to the one George from Barley and Hops YouTube made. Wondering if I can just install the thermistor where the T500 normally takes temperature from. Or would I have to take it at the top of the column.

I will mainly run neutral spirits, my next run I think I will give inverting sugar and use the birdwatchers recipe.

This is a fun new hobby, looking forward to learning more…. I’m really think of building a 3” bubble plate column for the boiler.
NormandieStill
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Re: T500 help

Post by NormandieStill »

Forget George and his PIDs. It's just not a goodplan for distilling. Direct power control is where it's at.
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ThomasBrewer
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Re: T500 help

Post by ThomasBrewer »

Agreed. George is a charismatic and enthusiastic personality that has introduced a lot of new folks to distilling, but be doesn't seem to fully understand the physics. Jesse from Stillit (and others) have tried to help him understand why PID control of the boiler simply doesn't work, but yet he persists.

If you're running the 110V version, a cheap "router speed control" will give you the energy input control you need to slow down or speed up vapor generation.
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Saltbush Bill
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Re: T500 help

Post by Saltbush Bill »

Suggest you all re-read the forum rules.....B&H AND it's owner are banned from being mentioned on this forum.......the advice given is way to wacky.
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rubberduck71
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Re: T500 help

Post by rubberduck71 »

Tresguey wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 10:19 am I have another Brewzilla that the control board went out but pump and heating elements are good. I do have a few PWM PID’s and solid state relays sitting around, I was thinking of making a control to run that similar to the one George from Barley and Hops YouTube made. Wondering if I can just install the thermistor where the T500 normally takes temperature from. Or would I have to take it at the top of the column.
If the control board is bad, but the heating elements are good, this would be perfect for an SCR controller that others have mentioned above. I have a similar set up using a Digiboil (dumbed-down version of a Brewzilla) and a Brewhaus heater controller. I don't have the tools/skills to build one myself, and it was inexpensive enough for my budget. Works well for me.

Good luck & keep reading,
Duck
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Tresguey
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Re: T500 help

Post by Tresguey »

Ok, so just use the PID control to adjust the duty cycle of the heating elements.

I would then just adjust the heating element power along with coolant water flow to regulate the output if the still.
ThomasBrewer
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Re: T500 help

Post by ThomasBrewer »

Tresguey wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 2:20 pm Ok, so just use the PID control to adjust the duty cycle of the heating elements.

I would then just adjust the heating element power along with coolant water flow to regulate the output if the still.
Yep, if your controller also has a duty cycle mode, that'll work.

It's also a good idea to split the water input and have independent control of the reflux condenser and the product condenser.
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Saltbush Bill
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Re: T500 help

Post by Saltbush Bill »

ThomasBrewer wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 5:13 pm It's also a good idea to split the water input and have independent control of the reflux condenser and the product condenser.
What advantage is there in doing that ? unless you are going to try to use the reflux still head as a stripper?
ThomasBrewer
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Re: T500 help

Post by ThomasBrewer »

Saltbush Bill wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 9:46 pm
ThomasBrewer wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 5:13 pm It's also a good idea to split the water input and have independent control of the reflux condenser and the product condenser.
What advantage is there in doing that ? unless you are going to try to use the reflux still head as a stripper?
Exactly. It gives you more options and is an easy upgrade.
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Saltbush Bill
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Re: T500 help

Post by Saltbush Bill »

As long as it's a full copper t500......it's not reccomended to strip with the others.
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Yummyrum
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Re: T500 help

Post by Yummyrum »

Saltbush Bill wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 10:37 pm As long as it's a full copper t500......it's not reccomended to strip with the others.
There was talk on the forums a fee years ago about t500 leaking around the top plastic bit when used to strip … something to do with them not being able to handle the higher heat of a strip.

Do you know if this issue has been fixed Salty ? .
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Saltbush Bill
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Re: T500 help

Post by Saltbush Bill »

I thought that a lot of the newer models where solid copper and had done away with the part that caused the problem Yummy.....looking at photos of them on the net it seems to me that nothing has changed except that some of the stills are now made of copper.....in short you now have the option of copper or stainless. Without wandering into a HBS and having a close look at one I wouldn't like to say one way or the other.
One of the sales sites claimed that ..............

"Using your Artisan copper condenser as a pot still
If you would like to collect more of the character from your wash like wine for Grappa, molasses wash for Rum, grain mash for whisky or bourbon then you will need to run your artisan's copper condenser as a pot still. To do this remove all the saddles and adjust the water flow to keep the condenser temperature betweem 60C and 65C. The unit can also be used as a partial reflux still by partially filling the column with saddles. You might wish to do this to make a clean spirit buy still retain some of the character of the wash."

Personally I'm not much into believing what I read from sales pitches, as you know Still Spirits them selves claim you dont need to make cuts with a T500 as they wont produce tails......just take a small fores cut and keep all else..........lol.
SteveH1960
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Re: T500 help

Post by SteveH1960 »

I regrettably bought a T500 only a couple of months ago. I presume it’s the latest model. It still has a plastic cap at the top. I wouldn’t use it for stripping.
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