On Grain Distilling with Digiboil

Other discussions for folks new to the wonderful craft of home distilling.

Moderator: Site Moderator

Post Reply
Metalking00
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 274
Joined: Thu May 13, 2021 12:22 am

On Grain Distilling with Digiboil

Post by Metalking00 »

I have a 35L digiboil that I use with a controller and a boka. I like it a lot, and haven't had any issues with scorching on uncleared washes. I've been getting ready to start my first all grain bourbon and was was trying to think around the issue of the goopiness of the corn. It seems like it would either be a pain in the ass to get all the liquid back out, or you'd lose a lot of wort that stays in the grain. I was originally planning on using a BIAB, and just do my best to get as much out as I could, but then I had a thought. If one was to ferment on grain, then put a false bottom in the boiler (I saw some made for the 35L digiboil for about $18) and place the tied up BIAB with the grains inside, why wouldn't that work? The bag would keep all of the solids from floating around (and anything that gets through the bag would've gotten through anyway), and the false bottom would keep the bag from melting by keeping it off the bottom. Aside from the possible benefit of better yield, it also just seems so much easier.

Does anyone do this? I did some searching but didn't find exactly what I was looking for. Am I missing something that would prevent this from working, or is dealing with the draining and sparging not as big of an issue as Ive heard?
User avatar
acfixer69
Global moderator
Posts: 4826
Joined: Mon Dec 20, 2010 3:34 pm
Location: CT USA

Re: On Grain Distilling with Digiboil

Post by acfixer69 »

Corn is a bitch and don't like the bag. False bottom with a bag will not do it.
NormandieStill
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 1737
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2020 10:17 pm
Location: Northwest France

Re: On Grain Distilling with Digiboil

Post by NormandieStill »

The bags are plastic and you're going to be boiling them for an hour or more. Just squeeze it.
"I have a potstill that smears like a fresh plowed coon on the highway" - Jimbo

A little spoon feeding *For New & Novice Distillers
howie
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 627
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2020 7:34 am

Re: On Grain Distilling with Digiboil

Post by howie »

tbh i bought a 35l digiboil last week, purely to have a good supply of sparge water when brewing beer with the brewzilla.
admittedly i am a newbie to corn......
i had good success with corn using high temp enzymes and a false bottom in the brewzilla, no gloopiness whatsoever.
then i have been putting the corn/grain (after good conversion) into a separate fermenter, to ferment on-grain.
after fermentation, i have been pouring the resultant liquid back into a BIAB in the brewzilla, which is attached to a pulley, to extract and squeeze the wash fairly easily, and distill from there.
up to now, i hadn't considered fermenting in the brewzilla because it would tie it up.
so acfixer- we know corn is a bitch, what is the reason behind the 'false bottom with a bag will not do it'
have you tried it?
normandie - the bags are Boil In The Bag, and i would assume that they would stand up to a ULWD, especially on top of a false bottom and on a digiboil they are concealed.
i'm not trying to be awkward, but this method has been going around my head recently and the answers don't satisfy my curiosity.
User avatar
Ben
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 1292
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:13 am
Location: Colorado

Re: On Grain Distilling with Digiboil

Post by Ben »

If you are going to the trouble of a false bottom just do all grain with a sparge. That gets rid of the mess early on, and frees up your digiboil. If you want to distill with the grain run the grain portion in a thumper, or look at steam infusion or jacketed boilers. Scorched corn is nasty.

The corn will clog up a BIAB bag pretty quick, your not talking about breathable hulls like barley instead your talking about particulate that really doesn't transfer water well. You may be able to use rice hulls to keep it from sticking up.

Corn is not to be feared, mix it with boiling water at a minimum of 2 qts/lb to get it up over 180, add high temp enzymes and an ounce of rice hulls per lb, rest for 1+ hours then bring it down to malt temp and treat it just like any other brew. https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtop ... 11&t=84742

You may be able to run your ULWD in a bed of sand and pour the mash in on top of it. That is untested, just a thought.
:)
User avatar
Dancing4dan
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 911
Joined: Sun Oct 18, 2020 4:18 pm
Location: Alberta

Re: On Grain Distilling with Digiboil

Post by Dancing4dan »

For corn I use a 800 micron BIAB. It still plugs with corn. My set up allows ferment on grain and steam distill on grain. Never distilled with the BIAB in there. Flaked corn is easier than cracked corn but in Canada it is a lot more more $. You get better yield as well.

Not sure I would apply heat to a Nylon bag….🤔
"What harms us is to persist in self deceit and ignorance"
Marcus Aurelius
I’m not an alcoholic! I’m a drunk. Alcoholics go to meetings!
NormandieStill
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 1737
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2020 10:17 pm
Location: Northwest France

Re: On Grain Distilling with Digiboil

Post by NormandieStill »

howie wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 5:27 am normandie - the bags are Boil In The Bag, and i would assume that they would stand up to a ULWD, especially on top of a false bottom and on a digiboil they are concealed.
The bags are designed for mashing. You take the grains out before boiling so the bag is exposed to around 66C for an hour. If you distill on the grain in a BIAB then you are going to heat it to 85C and higher for at least a couple of hours.

Plastics are rated for exposure to a given temperature for a given period of time. Past these specs you will get *excessive* levels of migration into your product. On this forum a decision was made that plastics have no place in a still. Sticking a plastic mesh bag into the middle of you wash breaks that rule.

So there's two reasons.
"I have a potstill that smears like a fresh plowed coon on the highway" - Jimbo

A little spoon feeding *For New & Novice Distillers
Metalking00
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 274
Joined: Thu May 13, 2021 12:22 am

Re: On Grain Distilling with Digiboil

Post by Metalking00 »

what about muslin or cheesecloth bag? The main thing Im thinking about is just trying to get that last bit out that remains soaked in the grain... my setup is fairly small, so every little bit helps. That said, I guess Ill just try to get as much out as I can and see what I get, maybe Im just overthinking it since I haven't tried it yet.

Ben - thanks for the tips on the rice hulls, Ill try that out
greggn
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 1379
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2014 11:59 am
Location: East Coast

Re: On Grain Distilling with Digiboil

Post by greggn »

Metalking00 wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 2:24 pm
Im thinking about is just trying to get that last bit out that remains soaked in the grain...

No process is 100% efficient so, at every process step, you're always going to be leaving behind starches/sugars/alcohols. You just need to run, measure, adjust, run, measure ... and develop a workflow that works best for your hardware and facilities.
________________

I drank fifty pounds of feed-store corn
'till my clothes were ratty and torn
User avatar
Ben
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 1292
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:13 am
Location: Colorado

Re: On Grain Distilling with Digiboil

Post by Ben »

Metalking00 wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 2:24 pm what about muslin or cheesecloth bag? The main thing Im thinking about is just trying to get that last bit out that remains soaked in the grain... my setup is fairly small, so every little bit helps. That said, I guess Ill just try to get as much out as I can and see what I get, maybe Im just overthinking it since I haven't tried it yet.

Ben - thanks for the tips on the rice hulls, Ill try that out
Could always run a sugarhead, or rinse the grain with just straight water and re-squeeze to distill.

Sounds like you need to find a bigger pot and make the bigger still!
:)
howie
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 627
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2020 7:34 am

Re: On Grain Distilling with Digiboil

Post by howie »

NormandieStill wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 10:00 am
howie wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 5:27 am normandie - the bags are Boil In The Bag, and i would assume that they would stand up to a ULWD, especially on top of a false bottom and on a digiboil they are concealed.
The bags are designed for mashing. You take the grains out before boiling so the bag is exposed to around 66C for an hour. If you distill on the grain in a BIAB then you are going to heat it to 85C and higher for at least a couple of hours.

Plastics are rated for exposure to a given temperature for a given period of time. Past these specs you will get *excessive* levels of migration into your product. On this forum a decision was made that plastics have no place in a still. Sticking a plastic mesh bag into the middle of you wash breaks that rule.

So there's two reasons.
i wasn't thinking of distilling with the BIAB in the boiler.
just using the digiboil and false bottom to convert the corn in a biab (they are rated to 110c apparently) with high temp enzyme, maybe pitching in the digiboil.
then when fermentation is done, just raise the biab on my pulley, maybe sparge the bag with a few litres, and distill as normal. a one vessel operation.
i thought the plastic rule mainly applied to high abv liquids?
does this mean all biab users should desist?
User avatar
Ben
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 1292
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2020 6:13 am
Location: Colorado

Re: On Grain Distilling with Digiboil

Post by Ben »

No, it's not a problem in the brewing phase, there is no alcohol present.
:)
ThomasBrewer
Swill Maker
Posts: 233
Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2020 9:24 pm

Re: On Grain Distilling with Digiboil

Post by ThomasBrewer »

The best solution I've seen is to fill the boiler with the cleared wash, and put the grains in a thumper.
NormandieStill
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 1737
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2020 10:17 pm
Location: Northwest France

Re: On Grain Distilling with Digiboil

Post by NormandieStill »

howie wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 4:25 pm i wasn't thinking of distilling with the BIAB in the boiler.
just using the digiboil and false bottom to convert the corn in a biab (they are rated to 110c apparently) with high temp enzyme, maybe pitching in the digiboil.
then when fermentation is done, just raise the biab on my pulley, maybe sparge the bag with a few litres, and distill as normal. a one vessel operation.
i thought the plastic rule mainly applied to high abv liquids?
does this mean all biab users should desist?
My bad. I confused you with the OP who was suggesting using a BIAB for distilling on the grain. Personally I'm trying to eliminate plastics from my entire chain starting with the hot steps and working back. When I've got a bit of free cash I'll be getting a grain basket to fit into my mash tun (30L keg) to get rid of the BIAB while mashing. If I ever manage to line up enough 30L kegs they'll be replacing my plastic fermenters for almost eveything.

Migration from plastics happens faster at higher temperatures and in the presence of alcohol, but that just means that the levels of migration are considered safe when used to spec, not that it doesn't occur at all.
"I have a potstill that smears like a fresh plowed coon on the highway" - Jimbo

A little spoon feeding *For New & Novice Distillers
howie
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 627
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2020 7:34 am

Re: On Grain Distilling with Digiboil

Post by howie »

NormandieStill wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 10:17 pm
howie wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 4:25 pm i wasn't thinking of distilling with the BIAB in the boiler.
just using the digiboil and false bottom to convert the corn in a biab (they are rated to 110c apparently) with high temp enzyme, maybe pitching in the digiboil.
then when fermentation is done, just raise the biab on my pulley, maybe sparge the bag with a few litres, and distill as normal. a one vessel operation.
i thought the plastic rule mainly applied to high abv liquids?
does this mean all biab users should desist?
My bad. I confused you with the OP who was suggesting using a BIAB for distilling on the grain. Personally I'm trying to eliminate plastics from my entire chain starting with the hot steps and working back. When I've got a bit of free cash I'll be getting a grain basket to fit into my mash tun (30L keg) to get rid of the BIAB while mashing. If I ever manage to line up enough 30L kegs they'll be replacing my plastic fermenters for almost eveything.

Migration from plastics happens faster at higher temperatures and in the presence of alcohol, but that just means that the levels of migration are considered safe when used to spec, not that it doesn't occur at all.
no worries mate.
i don't know if it will fit, but for the all-in-one type boiler (like the brewzilla), the malt pipe can be bought separately.
now you have me thinking, while the fermenting fridge is full of my xmas beer at 20C, i might try the digiboil with the false bottom, malt pipe & corn....... :think:
so trying to tie up to the OP, considering the malt pipe has solid sides and the false bottom in place, would the yeast be happy enough to 'search out' the sugars around the malt pipe and in the false bottom.
screenshot of digiboil diagram.jpeg
Post Reply