Stripping neutrals with reflux
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Stripping neutrals with reflux
I've been thinking about stripping for neutrals (sugar wash) with some reflux and in the discussion here: https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtop ... 40&t=85434 others say they do this. I didn't want to hijack that thread so...
Who is, or has tried stripping your neutrals through a reflux column?
What type and size of column? Bubble plate, packed, other?
What was the result?
Other than taking longer, any reason not to?
I've been thinking a plate or two on the strip wouldn't slow me down a lot, should compress heads/tails some, would reduce the size of the stored low wines, and means more water to dilute for the spirit run which many say will help clean up the spirit.
Thanks.
TwoSheds
Who is, or has tried stripping your neutrals through a reflux column?
What type and size of column? Bubble plate, packed, other?
What was the result?
Other than taking longer, any reason not to?
I've been thinking a plate or two on the strip wouldn't slow me down a lot, should compress heads/tails some, would reduce the size of the stored low wines, and means more water to dilute for the spirit run which many say will help clean up the spirit.
Thanks.
TwoSheds
Re: Stripping neutrals with reflux
I haven't tried it, but it has come up in the thread you reference. I'd think the main and likely only issue is time. Stripping is supposed to be fast and using a reflux still is the antithesis of speed. I have little doubt reflux stripped low wines would be a cleaner starting point for a spirit run, also given the almost certain need for significant dilution of the low wines.
The discussion is relevant, you'd have been welcomed to the discussion...
The discussion is relevant, you'd have been welcomed to the discussion...
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Zed
When the Student is ready, the Master will appear.
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
Zed
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If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
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Re: Stripping neutrals with reflux
I like the idea of sticking a single plate in with a reflux head and running fast to clean up a little. But I have no plates... and I really don't need to add another construction project to my future.
My 2" column is all or nothing because I can't be bothered to pull out all the rolls of wire mesh.
In my experience of my first run on my CCVM, I did find that running too hard smeared tails across the run even while the abv stayed high (94%), but I don't know how much worse that would have been had I not been refluxing.
My 2" column is all or nothing because I can't be bothered to pull out all the rolls of wire mesh.
In my experience of my first run on my CCVM, I did find that running too hard smeared tails across the run even while the abv stayed high (94%), but I don't know how much worse that would have been had I not been refluxing.
"I have a potstill that smears like a fresh plowed coon on the highway" - Jimbo
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- shadylane
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Re: Stripping neutrals with reflux
I always use reflux when stripping a sugar wash with my 4" X 100"ish packed column.
To save time, instead of holding the column in 100% reflux, I set the defleg cooling water to only a scalding hot trickle out.
Just guessing 75-80% of what the boiler produces makes it past the dephleg and out of the still to the low-wines jug.
And the refluxed strip takes 20-25% longer than a potstill run.
I've tried using plates for stripping but it's much slower than what a column can do.
To save time, instead of holding the column in 100% reflux, I set the defleg cooling water to only a scalding hot trickle out.
Just guessing 75-80% of what the boiler produces makes it past the dephleg and out of the still to the low-wines jug.
And the refluxed strip takes 20-25% longer than a potstill run.
I've tried using plates for stripping but it's much slower than what a column can do.
Re: Stripping neutrals with reflux
So I laid down a sugar wash that has been finished for a while now and decided to strip it using reflux to compare with my recycling tails idea and regular stripping protocols.
I set myself up a CCVM configuration on my electric keg with the RC completely above the outlet of the tee, seeking the theoretical 1:1 minimum reflux. I used a 3" x 24" spool packed with 13mm marbles, topped with a roll of copper mesh. The outlet fed a 3" capped tee with a 3" - 2" concentric reducer feeding my 36" long 3/4" over 1/2" liebig PC.
I warmed up a max power per usual, backing down as I approached production and took a 100ml foreshot like I always do nice and slow. I then gradually bumped up the power checking for flooding or any other issue until I got to about 4500W where I settled in for the ride. Took 2L per hour at a steady vapour temp and ABV of 93.5% for the first four litres. The fifth litre was a little slower and the ABV at the end was 92%. At this point I continued to collect a sixth litre separately as it was continuing to slow down with the ABV continuing to fall, ending up at 87.5% ABV.
Using reflux added an hour over a normal strip and maybe 45 minutes over a 'tails added' strip, but did hold back the tails much longer. I spent 4 hours including warm up and fores collection. I now have 5 pretty clean litres of low wines at an average of 93% ABV and one tailsy litre at an average 89% ABV. I will continue to strip the rest of the batch the same way, four strip runs in total. I *may* add the collected tails to the final strip and cut the run the moment they begin to show up again to try ad recover some more low wines before the spirit run.
I have the low wines from the tails recycling experiment yet to run, so I'm hoping to compare notes on the spirit runs between these stripping protocols. Suggestions and ideas welcomed.
I set myself up a CCVM configuration on my electric keg with the RC completely above the outlet of the tee, seeking the theoretical 1:1 minimum reflux. I used a 3" x 24" spool packed with 13mm marbles, topped with a roll of copper mesh. The outlet fed a 3" capped tee with a 3" - 2" concentric reducer feeding my 36" long 3/4" over 1/2" liebig PC.
I warmed up a max power per usual, backing down as I approached production and took a 100ml foreshot like I always do nice and slow. I then gradually bumped up the power checking for flooding or any other issue until I got to about 4500W where I settled in for the ride. Took 2L per hour at a steady vapour temp and ABV of 93.5% for the first four litres. The fifth litre was a little slower and the ABV at the end was 92%. At this point I continued to collect a sixth litre separately as it was continuing to slow down with the ABV continuing to fall, ending up at 87.5% ABV.
Using reflux added an hour over a normal strip and maybe 45 minutes over a 'tails added' strip, but did hold back the tails much longer. I spent 4 hours including warm up and fores collection. I now have 5 pretty clean litres of low wines at an average of 93% ABV and one tailsy litre at an average 89% ABV. I will continue to strip the rest of the batch the same way, four strip runs in total. I *may* add the collected tails to the final strip and cut the run the moment they begin to show up again to try ad recover some more low wines before the spirit run.
I have the low wines from the tails recycling experiment yet to run, so I'm hoping to compare notes on the spirit runs between these stripping protocols. Suggestions and ideas welcomed.
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Zed
When the Student is ready, the Master will appear.
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
Zed
When the Student is ready, the Master will appear.
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
Re: Stripping neutrals with reflux
I got all the wash stripped out using a reflux arrangement as outlined above. I'm left with about 20L of 93% ABV not-so-low wines that already smell reasonably clean. I did choose to include the 3L of tails collected during the first three strips in the fourth boiler charge since there was room for them and additional water with the remaining wash.
Now I need to perform both of my spirit runs for comparison to the recycling tails pot still method I outlined elsewhere. I recovered less theoretical alcohol with refluxing the strip but if the hearts cut is either better or bigger it might have been worth it. We will have to see...
Now I need to perform both of my spirit runs for comparison to the recycling tails pot still method I outlined elsewhere. I recovered less theoretical alcohol with refluxing the strip but if the hearts cut is either better or bigger it might have been worth it. We will have to see...
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Zed
When the Student is ready, the Master will appear.
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
Zed
When the Student is ready, the Master will appear.
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
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Re: Stripping neutrals with reflux
Thanks for posting Zed. Will be watching for your results.
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Re: Stripping neutrals with reflux
Ive been stripping neutrals in my boka with a shortened, packed column and the valve wide open. The passive reflux ups the abv, which means i can dilute with more water on the spirit run. Im happy with the results.
Re: Stripping neutrals with reflux
Sounds promising Zed, thanks for sharing your experiment!
I feel like I could strip faster through plates than I could through packing, but of course that won't clean things up as much. Might try it anyway once I have my technique a little more consistent.
I feel like I could strip faster through plates than I could through packing, but of course that won't clean things up as much. Might try it anyway once I have my technique a little more consistent.
Re: Stripping neutrals with reflux
I understand that plates have a range of conditions under which they must operate otherwise they don't work. Packing on the other hand can be chosen such that it can be run very hard (marbles do well as would any large void media) as well as choosing a shorter column. I elected to do both for stripping and still did not have the stones to use the full 6kW I could have, though it did run without issue at 4.5kW.
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Zed
When the Student is ready, the Master will appear.
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.
Zed
When the Student is ready, the Master will appear.
If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough.