Column Still - Bubble Plate/theoritical plate

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levaninep
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Column Still - Bubble Plate/theoritical plate

Post by levaninep »

Hello,

If I run fermented corn wine ( ABV 7% aprox) On column still with 3 plates, does it need second run again ?

When i used pot still, I needed first and second run to get final drinkable product without aging...

My Aim is now to get nice flavored product, with only 1 run.

Do you think it is possible ? or I will need second run anyway ?
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Ben
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Re: Column Still - Bubble Plate/theoritical plate

Post by Ben »

If you are using plates it will be a one and done run. The point of a plated still is to accelerate the process.

Try changing your plate count over a few runs, see how you like it. I have been running 2 for a while, I am going to try just one on the next batch.

Everything you could want to know about your plated still is probably in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=17&t=59216
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Saltbush Bill
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Re: Column Still - Bubble Plate/theoritical plate

Post by Saltbush Bill »

The whole point of plated columns is to allow you to make a finished product in one run.
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Re: Column Still - Bubble Plate/theoritical plate

Post by ThomasBrewer »

I've contemplated running UJSM on a few 4" bubble plates too. What's the usual takeoff rate when running unstripped washes? I would typically run around 1.5L/hr when running a 30-35%ABV stripped low wines boiler charge.
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Re: Column Still - Bubble Plate/theoritical plate

Post by Delloman »

I run UJSSM on my flute all the time. The speed and volume of take off is high. The only problem I have experienced on mine was to much flavor in my vodka that was 5 plates and 2 feet of packing. I love my flute. I also don't do striping runs 90% of the time. The one other problem is geting my proof lower then 180 it can be as high as 195.
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Saltbush Bill
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Re: Column Still - Bubble Plate/theoritical plate

Post by Saltbush Bill »

ThomasBrewer wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 3:53 pm I've contemplated running UJSM on a few 4" bubble plates too.
What do you mean by a few ? 3?
Delloman wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 4:43 pm The one other problem is geting my proof lower then 180 it can be as high as 195.
Trying to force a plated column to produce at an ABV thats not within its happy place is a recipe for disaster imo.
Its much easier to remove plates to get a lower abv, than to try and make them do things that they are not designed to do.
levaninep
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Re: Column Still - Bubble Plate/theoritical plate

Post by levaninep »

My, Aim is to get 75-80% AVB final product with one run, from wash which has 7% avb
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Saltbush Bill
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Re: Column Still - Bubble Plate/theoritical plate

Post by Saltbush Bill »

levaninep wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 3:19 am Aim is to get 75-80% AVB final product with one run
Thinking ya in about 2 plate territory there , cant say for sure , been a while since I ran less than 4 and I don't keep many notes.
Just remember the less plates the more your heading into pot still territory and the less the separation of fractions, or in other words more smearing. Any reason not to run more plates then blend back what you want to keep from cuts jars?
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Re: Column Still - Bubble Plate/theoritical plate

Post by bluefish_dist »

Delloman wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 4:43 pm I run UJSSM on my flute all the time. The speed and volume of take off is high. The only problem I have experienced on mine was to much flavor in my vodka that was 5 plates and 2 feet of packing. I love my flute. I also don't do striping runs 90% of the time. The one other problem is geting my proof lower then 180 it can be as high as 195.
If you want lower abv, run fewer plates. I found the sweet spot on my still for 2 plates was around 135-140. 3 plates made a nice 165-170. With fewer plates the spirit will be a lot rougher and need more barrel time to smooth out.
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Ben
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Re: Column Still - Bubble Plate/theoritical plate

Post by Ben »

levaninep wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 3:19 am My, Aim is to get 75-80% AVB final product with one run, from wash which has 7% avb
With 2 perf plates on my 4" I pull 164 proof. You may get there with just one.
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Re: Column Still - Bubble Plate/theoritical plate

Post by Stonecutter »

Okay I’ve always run a one and done with two bundles of copper mesh and about 2” of ceramic rings in a CM rig and normally hit 80% after making my cuts. I believe I make pretty scrupulous cuts. I’m going to venture into my first strip and spirit process in a couple weeks (getting ready to mash my 3rd batch this week). Can I expect a cleaner finish or is it really going to be more about the ease of making cuts?

I haven’t done the calculations but I’m thinking I’m into the 2-3 theoretical plate range.
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Ben
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Re: Column Still - Bubble Plate/theoritical plate

Post by Ben »

Strip and spirit in pot still mode you mean? That will not make a cleaner product. It will be rounder, likely more earthy, fuller... but will also have more "muddy" cuts. If you are talking about stripping then running through the column then yes, you are effectively adding another plate.
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Re: Column Still - Bubble Plate/theoritical plate

Post by Stonecutter »

Ben wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 12:16 pm Strip and spirit in pot still mode you mean? That will not make a cleaner product. It will be rounder, likely more earthy, fuller... but will also have more "muddy" cuts. If you are talking about stripping then running through the column then yes, you are effectively adding another plate.
I guess that’s the conundrum. From searching the forum it seems like it’s all up to personal preference when it comes to maintaining flavor, making cuts, cleaning up the product. So many variables regarding takeoff speed, rig setup etcetera etcetera. I’m going to just experiment between using packing and reflux and doing double pot distillation runs. We’ll see.
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Saltbush Bill
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Re: Column Still - Bubble Plate/theoritical plate

Post by Saltbush Bill »

Yup, you got it, there are a lot of ways to skin the same cat, you just have to find the way that suits you and your tastes.
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Ben
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Re: Column Still - Bubble Plate/theoritical plate

Post by Ben »

Stonecutter wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 5:42 pm
Ben wrote: Thu Jan 20, 2022 12:16 pm Strip and spirit in pot still mode you mean? That will not make a cleaner product. It will be rounder, likely more earthy, fuller... but will also have more "muddy" cuts. If you are talking about stripping then running through the column then yes, you are effectively adding another plate.
I guess that’s the conundrum. From searching the forum it seems like it’s all up to personal preference when it comes to maintaining flavor, making cuts, cleaning up the product. So many variables regarding takeoff speed, rig setup etcetera etcetera. I’m going to just experiment between using packing and reflux and doing double pot distillation runs. We’ll see.
If you want to save yourself some time, pick up a bottle of pot stilled bourbon, and a bottle of lowland scotch. Or go to a good whiskey bar and get one of each for a side by side. That will communicate the differences.
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levaninep
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Re: Column Still - Bubble Plate/theoritical plate

Post by levaninep »

So From 6.9% beer ( wash, 12 kg corn water and still yeasts), From 30 liter wash after pot still two runs, with cutting heads and tails I got 2 liters 55%, Great flavord product.

Same did on column still with 3 plates, with only one run, wash was 6.9%, So I got 70% product, with very bad notes. this two products are totally different.

So I believe if you are not going to age your product, in any style of still you need two runs. For clear/white drinks...
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Re: Column Still - Bubble Plate/theoritical plate

Post by Yummyrum »

Not done Corn likker but I found straight rum wash didn’t want to run too well in my 4 plater . If I stripped half it first and ran stripped with remaining wash , still ran better and tasted better for longer hearts run .
I now only use three plates using this method and its much better than using 4 plates on straight wash .

My theory is that plated stills don’t work so good on a one and done if the ABV is much below 8% .
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Saltbush Bill
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Re: Column Still - Bubble Plate/theoritical plate

Post by Saltbush Bill »

levaninep wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 8:16 pm So I believe if you are not going to age your product, in any style of still you need two runs. For clear/white drinks...
I don't believe that is correct, Ive tasted plenty of white dog single run off 4 plates that was quite drinkable, the best example I've tasted was in the US when I visited a few stiller folk there.
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Scott Tracy
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Re: Column Still - Bubble Plate/theoritical plate

Post by Scott Tracy »

I've been experimenting with 4 plates - doing single runs with an all grain wash of typically 7.5%.

Using approximate numbers, I've done about 10 runs. Each one is around 32l of wash at 7 - 8%. I'm using a Brewzilla to mash the grain and then my fermenter is temp controlled in an old fridge so I get pretty consistent mashes and fermentations.

I'm using a Brewhaus 4" reflux still with 4 plates and a little extra column height. I have a sight glass with no plate directly above the boiler, and a 2" sight glass above the dephlegmator (no good reason for this glass except to adjust my collection height on my bench).On this configuration, heads start coming off at around 91%. I toss 100 - 150ml of foreshots each run. ABV drops over the run - slowly at first and then more quickly as tails come in.

I collect in 200ml jars, normally 3 or 4 separate jars and then into a larger container through hearts and back into separate jars when I suspect tails coming. I keep track by collecting into alternating measuring cylinders and pouring them into my containers so i can note the ABV etc. on each jar even when it's all in a bigger container.

It will generally be something like 92, 91, 90, 88, 86, 83, 78, 73, 66, 61. I'll collect the rest into feints down to 20% or so but I haven't used anything below 60% in my cuts.

I find I am keeping around 1.6 - 1.8L per run. 'Hearts' are surprisingly early on this config - I generally keep from Jar 3 - Jar 10. Sometimes I use jar 2 as well. I'll end up with an average ABV of around 80% for what I keep.

I'm diluting to 60% and putting it into 10l SS beer kegs with some charred toasted white oak staves. One keg has 8 small staves, a second keg is the same except I pre-soaked the wood in a mixture of 50% heads and 50% sherry for a couple of weeks before adding the staves to the keg.

With the second keg filled today (and a year or so to wait on it) I actually came back to the boards here to work out the next experiment. After reading this thread I may well do a keg of double distillation from the same AG recipe. It could be interesting to compare the product from the 2 methods.
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Saltbush Bill
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Re: Column Still - Bubble Plate/theoritical plate

Post by Saltbush Bill »

Scott Tracy wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 12:01 am 83, 78, 73, 66, 61. I'll collect the rest into feints down to 20% or so but I haven't used anything below 60% in my cuts.
I cant see why you would keep filling jars once the abv of whats leaving a 4 plater is below about 85%.......anything that Ive experienced on any plated column that I've ever run says that your well into tails by then.
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Scott Tracy
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Re: Column Still - Bubble Plate/theoritical plate

Post by Scott Tracy »

Good to know. I’ve been trying to chase flavour, a bit worried that if I kept it too high I’d be trying to age all grain vodka.

I have rarely kept anything under 70, but have found if I leave it a day or 2, the lower jars really turn where the 70+ can have good flavour without that awful taint.

Live and learn though. May be I’ve been talking myself into tails. Appreciate the tips.
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