Low Hearts ABV

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morefog
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Low Hearts ABV

Post by morefog »

I'm running a pot to doubler with about 4' of 2" stack off the doubler. Included within that is a 4" section of about 18" with some stainless mesh loosely packed in. The wash should have been north of 10%.

I'm deep in the hearts, 93.6C stack temp at the moment. Taste is clean.

But it's only putting off 20% ABV. What's up with that? At this rate I'll never even get to the tails.
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Yummyrum
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Re: Low Hearts ABV

Post by Yummyrum »

You got your thumper connected back to front ?
morefog
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Re: Low Hearts ABV

Post by morefog »

Nope, I checked. Thumper was charged with same wash boiler was. I've gotten a large volume of quality product, but one might expect that given the high volume of water. Maybe I used extra-low boiling-point water by mistake.
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Re: Low Hearts ABV

Post by still_stirrin »

morefog wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 3:19 pm... Maybe I used extra-low boiling-point water by mistake…
:lol:

Priceless. Who da’ thought?
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Saltbush Bill
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Re: Low Hearts ABV

Post by Saltbush Bill »

What is a stack? People can't help you if they don't understand what your asking.......I don't know of any part of a still called " the stack"
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NZChris
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Re: Low Hearts ABV

Post by NZChris »

How are you measuring the ABV?
morefog
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Re: Low Hearts ABV

Post by morefog »

Hydrometer. By stack I meant column. A 4' tall column over the doubler.
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Yummyrum
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Re: Low Hearts ABV

Post by Yummyrum »

morefog wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 7:35 pm Hydrometer.
For the sake of confusion , we prefer to call a proof and traile meter an Alcometer .

Although technically it is a hydrometer , we reserve that name for a Beer and Wine Hydrometer . And while Me and Salt bush may appear to be pedantic pricks hassling you about names and not answering your question , there have been many occasions where a newby has not realised the difference and used the wrong type of meter .

So to rule out that, we always insist on folk using the right terminology .

The same goes for “stack” . Now you are calling it a column .

Again for clarity , we only call a column a packed section under a reflux condenser or Deflagmator .

If there is not a Deflag or reflux condenser , then it is referred to as a Riser . Even if it is packed with copper scrubbers to remove Sulphides , it’s still called a Riser .

Sorry to rant in your topic , just explaining is all .
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Yummyrum
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Re: Low Hearts ABV

Post by Yummyrum »

Anyway back on topic .
Curious how you have determined you are in hearts ?

There have been occasions where a condenser has sprung a leak inside and coolant water is coming out the end dilluting the product .
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Re: Low Hearts ABV

Post by The Baker »

I'm all in favour of pedantic pricks.

I fit right in there.

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jonnys_spirit
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Re: Low Hearts ABV

Post by jonnys_spirit »

A foto of your rig might also help.

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squigglefunk
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Re: Low Hearts ABV

Post by squigglefunk »

yes, a photo of the rig, and what recipe you used?

wash "should have been" 10%? Do you not know how much alcohol is in the wash?

and I know they say not to use thermometers here but wouldn't 93.6C be pretty much going into tails temp?
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Re: Low Hearts ABV

Post by morefog »

No worries on calling out the correct terminology. I'm here to learn. By the way, did I hear someone say there is a glossary somewhere?

Today I am rerunning my heads and reconfigured everything. Now I'm using a column. That started at 170 proof and is only running 40 proof now on my hy- alcometer. That could be hot reflux water, but that wasn't the problem on the beer strip as there was no reflux that day. Or it could be a problem with my setup, which is non-standard. I'll dig out some pictures.

I based being in the late hearts on taste and riser temperature. I give up before I got to the tails.
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Re: Low Hearts ABV

Post by morefog »

squigglefunk wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 6:31 am yes, a photo of the rig, and what recipe you used?

wash "should have been" 10%? Do you not know how much alcohol is in the wash?

and I know they say not to use thermometers here but wouldn't 93.6C be pretty much going into tails temp?
I have hearts as 91C to 94.5C.

Recipe was TFFV except it was run on spent malted pilsner and malted wheat instead of bran. It also used DADY yeast. As for 10%, I was did a mid-ferment sugar add. If I looked over my notes and did some math I might be able to estimate an ABV, but I'm not going to do that. One last point, the ferment was done twice, one batch went into the doubler, one went into the boiler. The boiler got more. As far as I can tell, neither burped.
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Re: Low Hearts ABV

Post by morefog »

Now I feel stupid. Maybe running a still all day has me tired. How do I post a photo?
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Saltbush Bill
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Re: Low Hearts ABV

Post by Saltbush Bill »

morefog wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 1:39 pm did I hear someone say there is a glossary somewhere?
A quick search brings this up.... app.php/googlesearch?cx=012980085383122 ... itesearch= plenty of reading there ........just scroll past the first 4 or 5
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Bee
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Re: Low Hearts ABV

Post by Bee »

I'd really check that product condenser for leaks.
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Re: Low Hearts ABV

Post by morefog »

I have two condensers. A copper coil inside a 2" sanitary pipe and a shotgun. I'll check both for leaks. Good suggestion.
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squigglefunk
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Re: Low Hearts ABV

Post by squigglefunk »

morefog wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 1:48 pm
I have hearts as 91C to 94.5C.
I have no idea, I guess it depends where your thermometer is placed in the chain?

I was just going by where my thermometer is during a run even tho I've been told to tape over it and not look at it.

either way 20% booze is not what I would call hearts so something is off, or everything is off?
morefog
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Re: Low Hearts ABV

Post by morefog »

Rerunning my hearts now for a neutral. Got the reflux pump working based on temp, cool. ABV is 70% using the same system. We'll see, perhaps it was a one-time fluke, though it may be awhile before I find out. I think I will have enough final product to last me quite some time.
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NZChris
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Re: Low Hearts ABV

Post by NZChris »

70% is way too low for any product required for neutral off a pot still, let alone a reflux still.

How, exactly, are you measuring the ABV. I'm not convinced that your readings are correct. Have you checked your method using water and commercial product?

If I was truly getting the ABVs that you have quoted in this thread, I would be shutting the still down and looking for water leaks into the condensate.
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Re: Low Hearts ABV

Post by morefog »

I checked the stainless new shotgun condenser for leaks under 80psi. None. I have not checked the copper coil dephlegmator yet as it wasn't easy to do at the time and any leaks would have flowed back to the thumper. I'll do that next.

As for alcohol readings I am relying on an alchometer in a parrot. I have two alchometers so I'll test them both with something commercial. Good suggestion.

I have concerns about my still design, but that's a longer conversation that I can't have right now.
Toxxyc
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Re: Low Hearts ABV

Post by Toxxyc »

Yeah my hearts in my pot still, even straight off the wash (no stripping), typically ends up at 76% ABV in the recipe I like repeating. At the high of the hearts, the best of the best, it's over 80% ABV, close to 88% ABV if I remember correctly. I get slightly higher numbers if I strip first and then do a spirit run in the same still.

My question - how does your hearts part taste? And how fast are you running the still? If it tastes alcoholic, maybe your alcometer is wrong?

To be honest I agree with NZChris. I think the readings are simply wrong. I have never collected anything off the still that's under ~30% ABV that's not so deep into the tails I don't even bother with jars anymore - it goes straight into the feints jar.
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Re: Low Hearts ABV

Post by morefog »

The wash hearts were clean. This was my last wash after collecting significant low-wines from a string of runs. I haven't started any new washes as I have collected sufficient hearts to meet my needs, once I can convert them to a quality product.

I made my cuts and redistilled the heads, adding to my collection of hearts.

When I redistilled just the hearts I added too much water in an attempt to clean the final product. All that extra water and an uncharged thumper may have reduced my spirit run even though I was using reflux. Haven't quite dialed in the reflux yet.

I'll check for leaks again in a few days. I'll compare alcometer readings on the two alcometers that I have. I'll calibrate both against commercial product. I'll pull the system apart, inspect, then place back together again and re-run my hearts sometime in the next week, depending on weather. I'll distill that product again with less dilution to see how it does. I'll update the group with my findings.
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Yummyrum
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Re: Low Hearts ABV

Post by Yummyrum »

Recon a pic of your setup would be of interest morefog :thumbup:
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