Drip Drip Spurt, is something wrong?

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Saltbush Bill
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Drip Drip Spurt, is something wrong?

Post by Saltbush Bill »

Dragged these posts across to a new Topic so as to not take Odins Easy Gin, thread off topic.
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=48594&p=7709580#p7709580
Andrew_90 wrote: Thu Apr 21, 2022 10:38 am I run real slow, drip drip, squirt.
I can't understand why any still would do this drip then squirt thing if there isn't something wrong.
Shouldn't a still run slow and properly just be a slow steady constant drip ......without the squirt.
I've seen this written often in recent years.....is it the cheap stills doing it?
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Re: Odin's Easy Gin

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Saltbush Bill wrote: Thu Apr 21, 2022 1:37 pm
Andrew_90 wrote: Thu Apr 21, 2022 10:38 am I run real slow, drip drip, squirt.
I can't understand why any still would do this drip then squirt thing if there isn't something wrong.
Shouldn't a still run slow and properly just be a slow steady constant drip ......without the squirt.
I've seen this written often in recent years.....is it the cheap stills doing it?
Not sure, definitely shouldn’t happen with a pot still
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Re: Odin's Easy Gin

Post by NZChris »

It will if the condenser has a pool, or the controller is a simmerstat.
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Re: Odin's Easy Gin

Post by Saltbush Bill »

That's exactly my point Chris.....something is not working the way it should be, but a lot of newer distillers seem to think it's quite normal.
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Re: Odin's Easy Gin

Post by howie »

Saltbush Bill wrote: Thu Apr 21, 2022 1:37 pm
Andrew_90 wrote: Thu Apr 21, 2022 10:38 am I run real slow, drip drip, squirt.
I can't understand why any still would do this drip then squirt thing if there isn't something wrong.
Shouldn't a still run slow and properly just be a slow steady constant drip ......without the squirt.
I've seen this written often in recent years.....is it the cheap stills doing it?
i have the same problem of drip drip squirt.
but it's an old age thing, the bladder just can't handle watching a drip drip.
it makes me want to squirt. :)
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Re: Odin's Easy Gin

Post by Andrew_90 »

Saltbush Bill wrote: Thu Apr 21, 2022 1:37 pm
Andrew_90 wrote: Thu Apr 21, 2022 10:38 am I run real slow, drip drip, squirt.
I can't understand why any still would do this drip then squirt thing if there isn't something wrong.
Shouldn't a still run slow and properly just be a slow steady constant drip ......without the squirt.
I've seen this written often in recent years.....is it the cheap stills doing it?
I can dial in drip drip. To me it appears as if the transition between between "drip drip" and a thin continuous stream is the "drip drip squirt". The squirt is a misnomer, it is not a squirt, it can be better described as a drip drip then short continuous stream. More accurately dot dot dash in morse code terms. If one considers it there has to be a transition from a broken flow to a full stream.

"Drip drip squirt" is a Georgeism.
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Re: Drip Drip Spurt, is something wrong?

Post by Saltbush Bill »

The stills I have experience with are Pot Stills, LM Boka and Plated columns....I try not to comment on things I have no personal experience of.
Ive never had a pot still do that and that is why I'm interested to know whats happening here.
As I said earlier Ive seen many references to this drip, drip, squirt thing , but only in relatively recent times.
Andrew_90 wrote: Thu Apr 21, 2022 9:55 pm it is not a squirt, it can be better described as a drip drip then short continuous stream. More accurately dot dot dash in morse code terms
Pretty much the same thing and I understand what you mean because sometimes when I'm very slowly milking fores off with my plated column it will do a similar thing if I apply to much heat to the boiler. However that's a different story.
Andrew_90 wrote: Thu Apr 21, 2022 9:55 pm If one considers it there has to be a transition from a broken flow to a full stream.
The transition that Ive seen from drips to a full stream on a pot still, is still very smooth, its not spasmodic. Its very slow drips, medium speed drips , faster drips, really fast drips, broken stream with no drips then an extremely thin stream......then bigger....all of that depending on power input to the boiler at any given time.
In short a pot still that is not running at a constant and steady speed is nor working to its optimum potential from my experience.....something funny is a foot.
What sort of condenser are you running?
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Re: Drip Drip Spurt, is something wrong?

Post by Andrew_90 »

I get this effect on 3 pots stills and my reflux still when I am at the "transition" point. All stills have Liebig's which are in my opinion oversized for the input. I run my output water pretty cool, no more than circa 35oC.

Lately have been running the smaller stills to circa 45oC.

Pot stills: 6l Kentucky with Liebig (22/15 x 330mm)/ 10l Pressure Cooker with Liebig (22/15 x 550mm/ 30l Keg with Liebig (35/22 x 610mm). Note to self, make a smaller one for future use.
Reflux Still: 50l Keg with Liebig (28/15 x 660mm).

I have a video to illustrate but have no clue how to upload it. Have asked my son if he can.

Forgot to add. The controller is an SCR device so the power is consistent.
Last edited by Andrew_90 on Fri Apr 22, 2022 2:59 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Drip Drip Spurt, is something wrong?

Post by bluc »

Broken stream to solid stream and back repeat...what am I missing? Always used an ssr based voltage controller..
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Re: Drip Drip Spurt, is something wrong?

Post by SmokyMtn »

I've had it happen by wind nearly blowing out my flame. Piece of tin fixes that.
Or flake stand wasn't level. A small rock under the low side takes care of that. Both will cause intermittent streams.
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Re: Odin's Easy Gin

Post by Andrew_90 »

Toward the last couple of seconds is an example of what I refer to, I was slowly cranking the power up i one of my first runs ever trying to establish a correct speed. Here is the short clip.

https://xperior.z1.web.core.windows.net ... -04-22.mp4
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Re: Drip Drip Spurt, is something wrong?

Post by ShineonCrazyDiamond »

I've seen huffing and puking do it. Too cold of water in condensor. I just use a toothpick.
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Re: Drip Drip Spurt, is something wrong?

Post by psf »

When I run my smaller stills on the stove top I get morse code which explained by the cycle on cycle off. I adjust the stream the best I can during the on cycle. I'm going to stop using the stove since I've read about smearing. I have the means to use a table top gas burner so I will.

On my 13 gallon I have a 4500W element with a still dragon diy kit with a manual Pot. So I can run constant. I have a 3/4" inner pipe Liebig and without a copper coon dick to concentrate the small stream on a spirit run I will not get a nice small steady stream. it's sporadic otherwise. I get a better small stream with a Cooper coon dick on a 40% spirit run than I do on a 1.5 run that is only 20ish%.

I think higher abv take off and something to concentrate the takeoff stream at the end effects the pencil stream desired.

the bigger the output radius of the tube the more the distillate can snake down the tube and I imagine the snake doesn't take the same path every time, causing different output. smaller diameter creates different radius and higher walls of the river.

I can rationalize anything in my mind. copper coon dick is just a piece of twisted small gauge wire shaped to control the output stream.

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Re: Drip Drip Spurt, is something wrong?

Post by Dancing4dan »

I believe the drip, drip, squirt came from the use of a PID controller. Was popular on a You Tube channel. Caused by on off cycles of element and resultant fluctuation in the boil.

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Re: Drip Drip Spurt, is something wrong?

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I believe you are probably right Dan.
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Re: Drip Drip Spurt, is something wrong?

Post by Saltbush Bill »

Andrew_90 wrote: Fri Apr 22, 2022 8:10 am Toward the last couple of seconds is an example of what I refer to, I was slowly cranking the power up i one of my first runs ever trying to establish a correct speed. Here is the short clip.
https://xperior.z1.web.core.windows.net ... -04-22.mp4
OK , Doesnt look as bad as I imagined in that clip.
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Re: Drip Drip Spurt, is something wrong?

Post by Yummyrum »

Yup, looks pretty normal to me . Also whats coming out will effect it . High AVB will have a lower surface tension so you can expect a finer stream than say a stripping run
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Re: Drip Drip Spurt, is something wrong?

Post by Stonecutter »

Like trying to describe a sound your car makes to a repair mechanic. :lol: Not sure how many of you listened to or remember the show “Car Talk”.

Andrew looks like you’re CCVM is working fine though my brotha! :thumbup:
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Re: Drip Drip Spurt, is something wrong?

Post by ThomasBrewer »

This "drip, drip, spurt" thing is a "George"-ism. It's the result of a PID trying to control the head temperature of a system where the boiling point changes.

Edit: Dancing was on point.
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Re: Drip Drip Spurt, is something wrong?

Post by Yummyrum »

ThomasBrewer wrote: Fri Apr 22, 2022 7:22 pm This "drip, drip, spurt" thing is a "George"-ism. It's the result of a PID trying to control the head temperature of a system where the boiling point changes.

Edit: Dancing was on point.
Yeah but
Andrew_90 wrote: Fri Apr 22, 2022 2:21 am Forgot to add. The controller is an SCR device so the power is consistent.
Not using a PID in this case .

I take it that Andrew is talking about the transition from drips to a stream as he slowly winds up the power .

However , a PID will wind the power up and down and uo and down , so yes , a repeated cycling if drips and spurts is not conducive to good distilling .
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Re: Drip Drip Spurt, is something wrong?

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Stonecutter wrote: Fri Apr 22, 2022 6:40 pm Like trying to describe a sound your car makes to a repair mechanic. :lol: Not sure how many of you listened to or remember the show “Car Talk”.
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Re: Drip Drip Spurt, is something wrong?

Post by Wyododge »

Yummyrum wrote: Fri Apr 22, 2022 7:38 pm
Not using a PID in this case .
He’s definitely not using a PID. He built a badass controller. Pics of it on here somewhere. I called it the A-90. Like everything else he builds, top notch all the way. Dude has SERIOUS skills.
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Re: Drip Drip Spurt, is something wrong?

Post by Andrew_90 »

I retired my PID Controller from boiler control due to this exact problem. Took me about 8 months to unlearn George (the problem is he is extremely engaging and a very goof presenter). It was this spurting that prompted me to invest in SCR Control.

So I must confess in hindsight that I have unwittingly retained this "Georgeism" as the reference for my spirit run speed. So what is the rule of thumb for speeds.

On my stripping runs I get a constant stream of circa 2mm diameter.
Spirit runs for neutral with the Reflux column and 50l boiler I also et a constant stream, much thinner and run between 1.5 and 1.2l per hour.
Spirit runs for Odin's Gin on a 10 and or 6l pot still are at circa 900 and 500ml per hour.

I maintain constant power and hence the drop off in output. Should I be increasing power as I progress through the run.
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Re: Drip Drip Spurt, is something wrong?

Post by NZChris »

Andrew_90 wrote: Fri Apr 22, 2022 10:08 pm I maintain constant power and hence the drop off in output. Should I be increasing power as I progress through the run.
That depends on what you're making. I often do during stripping runs, but not so much on spirit runs, preferring to let the output drop to minimize smearing when nearing tails. Extremely seldom when running gin, Absinthe, Ouzo, essence, or geist, etc..
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Re: Drip Drip Spurt, is something wrong?

Post by psf »

Andrew_90 wrote: Fri Apr 22, 2022 10:08 pm I maintain constant power and hence the drop off in output. Should I be increasing power as I progress through the run.
I have learned that this is an indication of when tails is coming for a spirit run. I start paying more attention to taste and smell when I notice the change in output with no change in input.

NZChris didn't need a hype man just thought i'd add my little bit of experience.
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Re: Drip Drip Spurt, is something wrong?

Post by Olmatemick »

How long is your outlet tube?
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Re: Drip Drip Spurt, is something wrong?

Post by Olmatemick »

Probably if you had a short one itd be very quick drips or pencil lead, long one drip drip spurt due to the grog having to run a fair way, resistance etc
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Re: Drip Drip Spurt, is something wrong?

Post by Andrew_90 »

Olmatemick wrote: Tue Apr 26, 2022 2:53 am How long is your outlet tube?
As measured where to where?
The total Liebeg? Just the portion after the inner tube exits the cooling jacket of the Liebig?
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Re: Drip Drip Spurt, is something wrong?

Post by Olmatemick »

Yeah from the outlet of the Liebeg to where youre getting drip drip spurt
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Re: Drip Drip Spurt, is something wrong?

Post by Olmatemick »

Either a long run perhaps or a flat run from outlet of condenser to outlet to jar allowing buildup followed by remnants perhaps
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