Combining turbo yeast and bakers yeast.

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AppleWood50
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Combining turbo yeast and bakers yeast.

Post by AppleWood50 »

So I started 2 10 gallon buckets of sugar wash. Pitched each one with a cup of red star bakers yeast. SG 1.070 they fermented vigorously for 2 days before near stopping. The gravity gone from 1.070 to 1.040 within 2 days then nothing. 10 days passed and the gravity reduced to 1.038. barely any activity in 10 days.

I pitched another half a cup of bakers and some extra nutrients. The wash foamed for a few hours and 2 days later gone down to 1.030. Then another 10 days later nothing.

Gravity is still 1.030.

I got a bit frustrated today and threw a packet of T24 turbo yeast into each bucket.

The T24 turbo yeast is made to ferment a 5 gallon 14% sugar wash in 24 hours.

I half dosed the turbo by adding one sachet to each 10 gallon bucket.

I didn't buy the turbo for this it was just the only other yeast that I had on hand. And I do have about 10 packs left from before I found this forum that I needed to use up.

The nutrients used in this ferment was Young's wine yeast nutrients. And I did add 1 TSP of citric acid per gallon for the PH.

I guess I just want to know what could have happened with this ferment. Why the bakers didn't work.

And what could happen with mixing bakers yeast with turbo yeast.The turbo only has to ferment the last 1.030.
AppleWood50
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Re: Combining turbo yeast and bakers yeast.

Post by AppleWood50 »

My main concerns.

I added lots of nutrients at the begining. Then I added more nutrients. Now I've added a sachet of turbo with more nutrients. What could go wrong with having so much nutrients in the wash?

I added 1 TSP of citric per gallon for PH control at the begining. Now I've added a sachet of turbo with pH buffers in. Could this cause a problem?

I've also mixed balers yeast and turbo.

The main thing that concerns me is this wash is probably treated 5 or 10 times over with nutrients.
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Salt Must Flow
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Re: Combining turbo yeast and bakers yeast.

Post by Salt Must Flow »

It's likely your wash recipe. This is why it is best to use the 'tried and true' recipes shown here on the forum. It may not have adequate nutrients for the yeast as well as a ph crash.

I've had 45 gal sugar washes ferment in as little as 3-4 days, but most often a week using Fleischmann's Yeast. The wash used boiled yeast, DAP, epsom salt and B vitamin for nutrients. I add how much citric acid the recipe calls for. Lastly I suspend a mesh bag with a hefty amount of crushed oyster shell and it will buffer the ph to ensure you don't get a ph crash.
AppleWood50
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Re: Combining turbo yeast and bakers yeast.

Post by AppleWood50 »

AppleWood50 wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 12:01 pm
Forgot to mention I fermented at precisely 32 Celsius. Maintained with a fish tank Heater.

My main concerns.

I added lots of nutrients at the begining. Then I added more nutrients. Now I've added a sachet of turbo with more nutrients. What could go wrong with having so much nutrients in the wash?

I added 1 TSP of citric per gallon for PH control at the begining. Now I've added a sachet of turbo with pH buffers in. Could this cause a problem?

I've also mixed balers yeast and turbo.

The main thing that concerns me is this wash is probably treated 5 or 10 times over with nutrients.
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Salt Must Flow
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Re: Combining turbo yeast and bakers yeast.

Post by Salt Must Flow »

Search this site and you'll see that you can have "too many nutrients" in a wash and lead to multiple problems. That's why most don't use Turbos and stick with 'tried & true recipes' shown on this forum. What is your ph currently?
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NZChris
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Re: Combining turbo yeast and bakers yeast.

Post by NZChris »

Did you check the pH before adding the citric acid?

What is the pH now?

What is the temperature of the wash?
AppleWood50
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Re: Combining turbo yeast and bakers yeast.

Post by AppleWood50 »

NZChris wrote: Thu May 12, 2022 1:30 pm Did you check the pH before adding the citric acid?

What is the pH now?

What is the temperature of the wash?
I managed to get the 2 X 10g buckets of sugar wash fermenting again with the two sachets of T24. It's now foaming vigorously and it's below 1.000. I'm sure I'll get some extra heads because of the turbo and excess nutrients but at least all is not lost.

But now my 5g cornflake mash also has stopped fermenting. This was started on the same day as the 2 10g batches of sugar wash.bAnd this one isn't even responding to turbo yeast.

5g batch
1/2 cup bakers
10 TSP wine nutrient
3 TSP citric acid
4kg sugar
750g cornflakes.

It started on 1.070 and it's now on 1.040 20 days later. It's barely got any activity now and the gravity hasn't changed in 3 days.
.
I added a half sachet of T24 to this also yesterday and today it's showing still no activity.

In comparison. I added the T24 to both buckets of 10g sugar wash yesterday and these are foaming like crazy today. But this 5g bucket of cornflake mash isn't showing any activity after the half sachet of T24.

The cornflake mash is at 30 degrees c. It was originally at 32 Celsius (optimal for the bakers) but I lowered it to 30 Celsius yesterday before adding the half sachet of T24. As the T24 doesn't like fermenting over 30. It's the max temperature range for it.

The PH of the cornflake mash is 6.5 tested today.

I have no clue what's wrong with the cornflake mash as it's not responding to the turbo yeast.

No preservatives in the cornflakes either. Just a boat load of vitamins.
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Ben
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Re: Combining turbo yeast and bakers yeast.

Post by Ben »

viewtopic.php?f=96&t=72946

Read this. Try his recipe. 4 kg of sugar is about 8.8lbs, in 5 gallons thats about 1 3/4 lbs per gallon. That recipe states over 1 1/2 is too much. Try backing down to 3kg of sugar if you have to do your own thing. Less gravity, less alcohol, but faster ferments and better quality.

You are dramatically overpitching yeast, to a wasteful extreme. A cup of yeast in 5 gallons is nearly a cup too much, you need less than 10 grams.

Pay attention to the temp requirement. You are using yeast that likes the mid 80s, do you have mid 80s temp? If not you need to switch up your yeast.
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rubberduck71
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Re: Combining turbo yeast and bakers yeast.

Post by rubberduck71 »

While you're at it, test/calibrate your pH meter.

3 tsp citric acid in 5 gal water should have pushed it down under 4 ??? Then the yeast activity w/ the sugar would drop it even further & caused a stall.

If you're in the U.S. Tractor Supply sells crushed shells 5 lb bag for under $10. Get a hop sock, stick it in a coffee cup, fill it, tie it off, & chuck it in sugar washes. It's like a pH auto pilot.
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AppleWood50
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Re: Combining turbo yeast and bakers yeast.

Post by AppleWood50 »

rubberduck71 wrote: Sat May 14, 2022 5:19 am While you're at it, test/calibrate your pH meter.!

3 tsp citric acid in 5 gal water should have pushed it down under 4 ??? Then the yeast activity w/ the sugar would drop it even further & caused a stall.

If you're in the U.S. Tractor Supply sells crushed shells 5 lb bag for under $10. Get a hop sock, stick it in a coffee cup, fill it, tie it off, & chuck it in sugar washes. It's like a pH auto pilot.
That pH was tested with strips.

Here's the bit I don't understand. I'm relatively new to distilling but I've been fermenting my own red wine for years. When I'm making a red wine from grape concentrate. I'll add between 3 and 5 TSP of citric acid per 5g bucket of wine. It's usually 1 TSP per gallon. My wines have NEVER had a problem fermenting at these pH levels.

The cornflake mash evening finished fermenting. I was originally going to distill this one on the grain. But it has about a cup of yeast in the 5g mash. A mix of bakers yeast and turbo yeast.

If I distill this one the grain will I end up with a yeasty mess as distillate?

But if I add finings to clear the mash. Tben I'll get little flavour transferring over.

Could I possibly clear the wash with finings then add more conflakes into the boiler with the mash? Or would this not achieve the same result as distilling on the grain?
AppleWood50
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Re: Combining turbo yeast and bakers yeast.

Post by AppleWood50 »

Ben wrote: Sat May 14, 2022 4:36 am viewtopic.php?f=96&t=72946

Read this. Try his recipe. 4 kg of sugar is about 8.8lbs, in 5 gallons thats about 1 3/4 lbs per gallon. That recipe states over 1 1/2 is too much. Try backing down to 3kg of sugar if you have to do your own thing. Less gravity, less alcohol, but faster ferments and better quality.

You are dramatically overpitching yeast, to a wasteful extreme. A cup of yeast in 5 gallons is nearly a cup too much, you need less than 10 grams.

Pay attention to the temp requirement. You are using yeast that likes the mid 80s, do you have mid 80s temp? If not you need to switch up your yeast.
I completely understand that I was drastically overpitching. But would 10g of bakers really be enough for a 5g wash?

And regarding temperature. A number of respected members here such as Odin suggest that bakers yeast thrives hotter than the 80s. These members recommend 90s?
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Salt Must Flow
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Re: Combining turbo yeast and bakers yeast.

Post by Salt Must Flow »

I hydrate 48g of Fleischmann's Yeast for a 45 gal sugar wash and it always fires off very well within a matter of hours. That's just a hair over 1g per gal.

I typically shoot for 85F and it fully ferments within a week. Quicker if 90F, but that's what I've been doing. Yeast generates a good bit of heat all on its own so I have to set my fermentation box temp lower than what I want the wash's internal temp to be at least for the first couple days or so. For the first couple days it's fermenting vigorously and slows down a bit over time. Next time I'll try 90F. Here's a link.
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Re: Combining turbo yeast and bakers yeast.

Post by howie »

AppleWood50 wrote: Mon May 16, 2022 12:44 pm
rubberduck71 wrote: Sat May 14, 2022 5:19 am While you're at it, test/calibrate your pH meter.!

3 tsp citric acid in 5 gal water should have pushed it down under 4 ??? Then the yeast activity w/ the sugar would drop it even further & caused a stall.

If you're in the U.S. Tractor Supply sells crushed shells 5 lb bag for under $10. Get a hop sock, stick it in a coffee cup, fill it, tie it off, & chuck it in sugar washes. It's like a pH auto pilot.
That pH was tested with strips.

Here's the bit I don't understand. I'm relatively new to distilling but I've been fermenting my own red wine for years. When I'm making a red wine from grape concentrate. I'll add between 3 and 5 TSP of citric acid per 5g bucket of wine. It's usually 1 TSP per gallon. My wines have NEVER had a problem fermenting at these pH levels.

The cornflake mash evening finished fermenting. I was originally going to distill this one on the grain. But it has about a cup of yeast in the 5g mash. A mix of bakers yeast and turbo yeast.

If I distill this one the grain will I end up with a yeasty mess as distillate?

But if I add finings to clear the mash. Tben I'll get little flavour transferring over.

Could I possibly clear the wash with finings then add more conflakes into the boiler with the mash? Or would this not achieve the same result as distilling on the grain?
ahhh, i did look at your welcome post where you stated you've been brewing for years, i presumed it was a beer background, not wine.
i don't think you can apply 'what i used to do for wine' to mashes.
you need to know the PH of your original water pretty accurately, then add the correct amount of citric acid (or whatever) to adjust the PH.
ie for my water, i only need 1/2 tsp to adjust a 5 gallon wash by about 1xPH.
3 tsps citric would drop my PH to about 2-2.5
i would recommend following a 'tried & true' recipe exactly before trying to branching out.
the amounts of bakers yeast in a few recipes are only 50-80gms per 25l wash, that's all you need.
i'm not sure about distilling on the grain with a digiboil.
personally, i would just buy a BIAB bag, put it into the digiboil and strain the wash.
then remove the BIAB, re-use some of the grain/add more cornflakes-sugar if you want, it's up to you.
finings? patience is better. :)
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Ben
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Re: Combining turbo yeast and bakers yeast.

Post by Ben »

Overpitching yeast can cause problems just like underpitching.

Try this to get you started: https://www.brewersfriend.com/yeast-pit ... alculator/
:)
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