Anyone know what this is?

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thestillwell
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Anyone know what this is?

Post by thestillwell »

9516772D-5409-48D0-AC13-D60E18517E2E.jpeg
Both carboys are filled with the same recipe. Corn, rye and barley. The one on the left has something floating on top. Thoughts on what it could be?

Thanks!
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Re: Anyone know what this is?

Post by Sporacle »

Start of an infection is my guess
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Re: Anyone know what this is?

Post by Tummydoc »

Probably lactobacillus. Don't sweat it, just let the ferment go till done and run it. Some prefer the flavor after an infection. Lactobacillus will slowly consume alcohol so run it soon as the specific gravity stabilizes.
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Re: Anyone know what this is?

Post by still_stirrin »

thestillwell wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 4:37 pmThoughts on what it could be?
Tummydoc wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 9:38 pm Probably lactobacillus.
+1.

Brace yourself, it’ll look worse before it’s done. In fact, the pellicle may scare you yet. But you can siphon the liquid out from under the covering.
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thestillwell
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Re: Anyone know what this is?

Post by thestillwell »

Thanks, had never seen this before. Glad I don’t have to dump it.
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Ben
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Re: Anyone know what this is?

Post by Ben »

Tummydoc wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 9:38 pm Lactobacillus will slowly consume alcohol so run it soon as the specific gravity stabilizes.
I thought it consumed sugar, and produced lactic acid. IE if it is acting on beer that is in fermentation it does take some sugar from the yeast, but the if the yeast has chewed through what it can the lacto will continue breaking down more complex sugars (Saccharomyces tends to leave a bit behind). You might be thinking of Acetobacter, which consumes ethanol and produces acetic acid. Acetobacter does require some oxygen to get going, usually appears after transferring the beer around.



To the OP:
I like a little lacto in my corn base ferments, I think its delicious. Give it a chance, if you don't like it you know and you will need to change your process and sanitization to get rid of it. Lacto can take quite a while to make a flavor impact. If you do like it then you have a new tool.

Can look pretty vicious, but dang it smells nice
0329220937.jpg
:)
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Tummydoc
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Re: Anyone know what this is?

Post by Tummydoc »

Ben you are 100% correct, I stand corrected. Lactobacillus will consume sugars during ferment and lower potential ABV, but does not consume alcohol once generated. I misremembered posts on this site from years back. Makes me happier that i dont have to rush my infected mashes!
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Re: Anyone know what this is?

Post by Deplorable »

Today I pitched yeast on a 3rd ferment of HBB. While cleaning up the garage I found a bucket that I dumped all the custard slurry in from the last cleared ferment. It's been sitting sealed up for over a month. In that time the slurry settled some more and there is about a gallon of clear wash between the custard and this Lacto pellicil. It smells Devine. I'm just gonna leave it be for a bit and see what becomes of it.
20220529_091319.jpg
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Demy
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Re: Anyone know what this is?

Post by Demy »

It seems to me a "Candida Mycoderma" infection, initially forms that thin film, then separates itself forming those petals, in fact here in Italy it is called "Fioretta", in any case nothing to worry about in the distillation if not left for a long time.
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Re: Anyone know what this is?

Post by thestillwell »

image.jpg
So, just to be clear. The picture I took is after fermentation, at that moment it had only been clearing for 2 days. As of today, 6 days later, this is what it looks like now. Still good?
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Re: Anyone know what this is?

Post by Tummydoc »

Even better!
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Re: Anyone know what this is?

Post by Deplorable »

+1 Give it a smell. I bet it smells wonderfully fruity. It'll be fine until you can run it. Rack from under the pellicil trying not to disturb it more that required to siphon the beer from underneath.
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Re: Anyone know what this is?

Post by jonnys_spirit »

The infection is all through the beer. The pellicle is just sorta like fingernails. Run it when you get a chance and enjoy it!

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Re: Anyone know what this is?

Post by Deplorable »

I've decided I'm going to take some of the infected beer from my bucket and intentionally infect my current HBB ferment after I rack and squeeze it for clearing.
I still haven't tasted my corn whiskey that had lacto in 2 of 3 ferments.
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Re: Anyone know what this is?

Post by Single Malt Yinzer »

- Infections are rarely one thing. They normally are a mix of things. In this case the main one is most likely lacto. You can safely run it. As other said it will likely taste better. Lacto also helps with mouthfeel. Other bacteria will help create fatty acids. These fatty acids are used to create esters. Esters, in general, are awesome tasting/smelling.

- Don't drink infected wort. It's infected. It can do bad things to you.

- As long as you keep the wort airtight you can keep it for a very long time as in months or years. Anaerobic infections rarely affect alcohol levels. They will also use up non-yeast fermentable long chain sugars like dextrins.

- If you open ferment or otherwise let air in aerobic bacterias like acetobacter will turn alcohol into vinegar. Great if you're making kombucha, bad if you want to make spirits.
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Re: Anyone know what this is?

Post by Deplorable »

Single Malt Yinzer wrote: Thu Jun 02, 2022 5:51 pm - Infections are rarely one thing. They normally are a mix of things. In this case the main one is most likely lacto. You can safely run it. As other said it will likely taste better. Lacto also helps with mouthfeel. Other bacteria will help create fatty acids. These fatty acids are used to create esters. Esters, in general, are awesome tasting/smelling.

- Don't drink infected wort. It's infected. It can do bad things to you.

- As long as you keep the wort airtight you can keep it for a very long time as in months or years. Anaerobic infections rarely affect alcohol levels. They will also use up non-yeast fermentable long chain sugars like dextrins.

- If you open ferment or otherwise let air in aerobic bacterias like acetobacter will turn alcohol into vinegar. Great if you're making kombucha, bad if you want to make spirits.
So I'm good to go using this to inoculate the next ferment in secondary? :?:
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Re: Anyone know what this is?

Post by Single Malt Yinzer »

Yes. For secondary it's perfect. You've already used up most of the fermentable sugars so you won't really lose much.

For primary I suggest giving the yeast a day or two before you do. This reduces the amount of fermentable sugars lost to the bacteria.
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Re: Anyone know what this is?

Post by Olmatemick »

Deplorable wrote: Sun May 29, 2022 9:59 am Today I pitched yeast on a 3rd ferment of HBB. While cleaning up the garage I found a bucket that I dumped all the custard slurry in from the last cleared ferment. It's been sitting sealed up for over a month. In that time the slurry settled some more and there is about a gallon of clear wash between the custard and this Lacto pellicil. It smells Devine. I'm just gonna leave it be for a bit and see what becomes of it.

20220529_091319.jpg
I wonder if itll work like infected dunder for rum. The flavours that come out are amazing
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Ben
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Re: Anyone know what this is?

Post by Ben »

Deplorable wrote: Thu Jun 02, 2022 6:24 pm
Single Malt Yinzer wrote: Thu Jun 02, 2022 5:51 pm - Infections are rarely one thing. They normally are a mix of things. In this case the main one is most likely lacto. You can safely run it. As other said it will likely taste better. Lacto also helps with mouthfeel. Other bacteria will help create fatty acids. These fatty acids are used to create esters. Esters, in general, are awesome tasting/smelling.

- Don't drink infected wort. It's infected. It can do bad things to you.

- As long as you keep the wort airtight you can keep it for a very long time as in months or years. Anaerobic infections rarely affect alcohol levels. They will also use up non-yeast fermentable long chain sugars like dextrins.

- If you open ferment or otherwise let air in aerobic bacterias like acetobacter will turn alcohol into vinegar. Great if you're making kombucha, bad if you want to make spirits.
So I'm good to go using this to inoculate the next ferment in secondary? :?:
Should be a non issue, using a full yeast cake is way overpitching, the yeast are going to have their fill long before the lacto can take away anything meaningful.

I usually pull a cup or so of the slurry and repitch that.
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Re: Anyone know what this is?

Post by Deplorable »

Ben wrote: Sat Jun 04, 2022 6:26 am
Deplorable wrote: Thu Jun 02, 2022 6:24 pm
Single Malt Yinzer wrote: Thu Jun 02, 2022 5:51 pm - Infections are rarely one thing. They normally are a mix of things. In this case the main one is most likely lacto. You can safely run it. As other said it will likely taste better. Lacto also helps with mouthfeel. Other bacteria will help create fatty acids. These fatty acids are used to create esters. Esters, in general, are awesome tasting/smelling.

- Don't drink infected wort. It's infected. It can do bad things to you.

- As long as you keep the wort airtight you can keep it for a very long time as in months or years. Anaerobic infections rarely affect alcohol levels. They will also use up non-yeast fermentable long chain sugars like dextrins.

- If you open ferment or otherwise let air in aerobic bacterias like acetobacter will turn alcohol into vinegar. Great if you're making kombucha, bad if you want to make spirits.
So I'm good to go using this to inoculate the next ferment in secondary? :?:
Should be a non issue, using a full yeast cake is way overpitching, the yeast are going to have their fill long before the lacto can take away anything meaningful.

I usually pull a cup or so of the slurry and repitch that.
I think you misunderstood what I'm doing.
The infected beer in that bucket will be used to inoculate a fresh completed ferment as it clears. There is about a gallon of beer on top of the custard cake. I'm going used that beer not the thick slurry below it. The yeast and flour is of no use to me it'll go in the compost pile.
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Ben
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Re: Anyone know what this is?

Post by Ben »

:thumbup:
:)
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Re: Anyone know what this is?

Post by Demy »

Deplorable wrote: Sat Jun 04, 2022 6:58 am
Ben wrote: Sat Jun 04, 2022 6:26 am
Deplorable wrote: Thu Jun 02, 2022 6:24 pm
Single Malt Yinzer wrote: Thu Jun 02, 2022 5:51 pm - Infections are rarely one thing. They normally are a mix of things. In this case the main one is most likely lacto. You can safely run it. As other said it will likely taste better. Lacto also helps with mouthfeel. Other bacteria will help create fatty acids. These fatty acids are used to create esters. Esters, in general, are awesome tasting/smelling.

- Don't drink infected wort. It's infected. It can do bad things to you.

- As long as you keep the wort airtight you can keep it for a very long time as in months or years. Anaerobic infections rarely affect alcohol levels. They will also use up non-yeast fermentable long chain sugars like dextrins.

- If you open ferment or otherwise let air in aerobic bacterias like acetobacter will turn alcohol into vinegar. Great if you're making kombucha, bad if you want to make spirits.
So I'm good to go using this to inoculate the next ferment in secondary? :?:
Should be a non issue, using a full yeast cake is way overpitching, the yeast are going to have their fill long before the lacto can take away anything meaningful.

I usually pull a cup or so of the slurry and repitch that.
I think you misunderstood what I'm doing.
The infected beer in that bucket will be used to inoculate a fresh completed ferment as it clears. There is about a gallon of beer on top of the custard cake. I'm going used that beer not the thick slurry below it. The yeast and flour is of no use to me it'll go in the compost pile.
A good way of infecting a ferment is to insert some handfuls of cereals taken by the bag ... the problem is that the composition of yeasts and bacteria cannot be predictable ... another way to attract lactic bacteria (and not only , you will have a mix) it is to use the procedure to obtain the "mother yeast" used for bakery ... Another method insert non washed fruit that contains indigenous yeasts on the surface .. the latter case I think there is a good possibility of acetic bacteria ..
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Re: Anyone know what this is?

Post by thestillwell »

Well, I ran it. First 200mL came in low at 100 proof. Smelled funny as well, so I kept going. After collecting another 800mL the proof was at 40, not 40%, 40 proof. The smell was awful and it tasted like….nothing. So weird. Any thoughts on what happened? Was it the infection? When I run 10 gallons I usually get close to 6,000mL. Barely cracked 1,000 this time.
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