Alcotec Vodka Star

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schoolmonkey
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Alcotec Vodka Star

Post by schoolmonkey »

Ok I was given a couple of packets of Alcotec Vodka Star, so I gave one a go.
Fermented down with no issues in 6 days, smells like a typical sugar wash, it was really cloudy, but I wasn't sure if you were meant to use one of the clearing agents like most packet yeast washes (Alcotec Turbo Klar, Turbo clear etc).
I tried searching everywhere for the answer to no avail, it doesn't mention needing it on the back of the packet and you don't use active carbon in the wash like the Alcotec 48 hour turbo, so I wasn't sure.

Thanks
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Salt Must Flow
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Re: Alcotec Vodka Star

Post by Salt Must Flow »

I've never cleared a sugar wash. There really isn't enough there to scorch. I've never used a turbo yeast either. I've only used Fleischmann's yeast because I get 2 lbs for $5 locally.
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still_stirrin
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Re: Alcotec Vodka Star

Post by still_stirrin »

You shouldn’t need clearing agents with a simple sugar wash. When it’s done fermenting, it’ll naturally clear, or settle the yeast. Then just rack the wash off the trub.

Companies like Alcotec like to sell you a bunch of stuff you don’t (or shouldn’t) need if you do everything right. They make money off of hobbiests who don’t know what they’re doing.

Similarly, you probably won’t find a lot of discussions here regarding the use of those “additives” other than to say, “you shouldn’t need to use them”. The yeast, if healthy, should do its own job quite well.

However, I would add that sugar alone doesn’t provide all the nutrients a yeast would need to ferment. So, some nutrients would be wise to add. I like to add some magnesium (epsom salts), and some DAP (di-ammonium phosphate) and maybe a little calcium for the yeast metabolism. Some bran flakes (breakfast cereal) is a great source of vitamins and nutrients that the yeast likes and it won’t add much of a flavor to the wash either.
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Salt Must Flow
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Re: Alcotec Vodka Star

Post by Salt Must Flow »

still_stirrin wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 6:41 pm Some bran flakes (breakfast cereal) is a great source of vitamins and nutrients that the yeast likes and it won’t add much of a flavor to the wash either.
ss
Curious, what ratio per gallon (or whatever volume) do you add to your sugar washes? I would like to try that with my next sugar wash.
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Re: Alcotec Vodka Star

Post by schoolmonkey »

On the packet the listed ingredients are: yeast, yeast nutrients and vitamins.

It did ferment down perfectly, probably the easiest I've done so far, it was kind of cloudy after leaving it 2 days, so I racked it off with a auto syphon with a filter on it, left about 1cm on the bottom where you can clearly see the yeast, just doing a stripping run now.
It defiantly has the normal sugar was smell, so it'll be interesting how it goes during a spirit run.

The local shop gave me 2 packets to try, (about $6 normally), so thought it couldn't hurt to see how it turns out.

A lot of places online that sell it say it's good to use with grans etc, but I don't know how true that is, though it seems to been really resilient to big temperature shifts.
still_stirrin wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 6:41 pm However, I would add that sugar alone doesn’t provide all the nutrients a yeast would need to ferment. So, some nutrients would be wise to add. I like to add some magnesium (epsom salts), and some DAP (di-ammonium phosphate) and maybe a little calcium for the yeast metabolism. Some bran flakes (breakfast cereal) is a great source of vitamins and nutrients that the yeast likes and it won’t add much of a flavor to the wash either.
ss
I have done a couple of the bran washes listed in the forums, so I do have all that here already, but as I got the Vodka Star free, it was just 6kgs of sugar and some time, we all like to experiment a bit around here, see how things turn out, helps when you have a few fermenters too. :lol:
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Re: Alcotec Vodka Star

Post by Saltbush Bill »

schoolmonkey wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 7:22 pm The local shop gave me 2 packets to try, (about $6 normally
.
Hoping you will buy more in the future.....fact is there are cheaper things that work just as well or better.
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Re: Alcotec Vodka Star

Post by schoolmonkey »

Saltbush Bill wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 7:57 pm
schoolmonkey wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 7:22 pm The local shop gave me 2 packets to try, (about $6 normally
.
Hoping you will buy more in the future.....fact is there are cheaper things that work just as well or better.
Yeah Lowan Bakers Yeast, $4.50 for 280g, got some in the cupboard, grabbed it when I started doing TFFV, going to give Wineos sugar wash a go next :lol:
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Re: Alcotec Vodka Star

Post by schoolmonkey »

Ok so I'm 1L into the spirit run and I don't know what's wrong but man it tastes horrible, a real off flavor like nothing I've experienced before, I've had better cleaner results from a Still Spirits Turbo Pure wash compared to this.

Will run it through a carbon filter and try distilling again, but no wonder they gave them to me for nothing.
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Re: Alcotec Vodka Star

Post by still_stirrin »

schoolmonkey wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 10:59 pm Ok so I'm 1L into the spirit run and I don't know what's wrong but man it tastes horrible, a real off flavor like nothing I've experienced before…
Did you strip before the spirit? Or, is this “one & done”? It has been said before that sugar washes will be harsh without a double distillation protocol.

Also, some description of the taste would help to understand better exactly what you’re experiencing. Include a brief description of your equipment too. But, Turbo yeasts are avoided here because they often produce less-than desirable results, unless you’re making fuel.
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Re: Alcotec Vodka Star

Post by schoolmonkey »

still_stirrin wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 4:14 am
schoolmonkey wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 10:59 pm Ok so I'm 1L into the spirit run and I don't know what's wrong but man it tastes horrible, a real off flavor like nothing I've experienced before…
Did you strip before the spirit? Or, is this “one & done”? It has been said before that sugar washes will be harsh without a double distillation protocol.

Also, some description of the taste would help to understand better exactly what you’re experiencing. Include a brief description of your equipment too. But, Turbo yeasts are avoided here because they often produce less-than desirable results, unless you’re making fuel.
ss
I did a stripping run first like I always do, smelt fruity, did a spirit run, had a fruity smell to start with, then that went away after about 500ml, taste tested on the tongue, it tasted off, like off fruit, even my wife said how bad it was, that was right through every 250ml cut I made.
With every other sugar wash I've done (SS Turbo Pure, Classic 8, TFFV) I've never had anything that tasted like this, don't get me wrong they aren't the best, but they are acceptable/drinkable.
I mastered the Pure, it actually has Zero taste besides alcohol burn, but I have to do extremely strict cuts, running it low and slow keeping the reflux water temp around 54-55c

My setup is a T500 Boiler, T500 Reflux Condenser, Copper Alembic Dome and Post Still Condenser (used for stripping runs), 4 30L fermenters.
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still_stirrin
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Re: Alcotec Vodka Star

Post by still_stirrin »

schoolmonkey wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 4:34 am I did a stripping run first like I always do …
… smelt fruity, did a spirit run, had a fruity smell to start with, then that went away after about 500ml …
… taste tested on the tongue, it tasted off, like off fruit …
Esters.

The early “fruity smell”, like green apples (acetyaldehyde) has a very low boiling point, well before your wash starts an active boil. It is very volatile and effervesces very early and won’t last long.

Next, comes the ethyl acetate and acetone notes. They have the sweet solventy aroma you’d be familiar with fingernail polish remover. Again, it will smell sorta’ like an “off fruity” smell. And if sampled (tasted) it would be noticeably “burny” on the tongue. You don’t want to consume it as it will give you a headache, or worse. Even breathing it (vapors) will give me a headache. So, I always cut it into the early heads jar. Blending it back with other feints for a later reflux distillation will allow you to compress it somewhat and give up some of the alcohols that are mixed with it.

The solvents in the fores, early heads and heads are byproducts of the yeast’s fermentation. A rapid ferment catalyzed by excessive nutrients will generate these congeners. Controlling the progress of the ferment will help keep the production of these solvents to a minimum. This is why I don’t like Turbo yeasts: because they come pre-packaged with a boatload of crappy nutrients and energizers. Simple bakers yeast and the proper amount of the right nutrients will produce a much cleaner sugar wash ferment.
schoolmonkey wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 4:34 am… even my wife said how bad it was, that was right through every 250ml cut I made.

With every other sugar wash I've done (SS Turbo Pure, Classic 8, TFFV) I've never had anything that tasted like this, don't get me wrong they aren't the best, but they are acceptable/drinkable.

I mastered the Pure, it actually has Zero taste besides alcohol burn, but I have to do extremely strict cuts, running it low and slow keeping the reflux water temp around 54-55c…
hmmm, I kinda’ wonder if your taste paradigm is askew, or if your “taste target” is different. If making a sugar wash and running through a reflux column, you’re obviously trying to remove as much “flavor” as possible.

Clean ethanol always has a slight sweet taste to me, not completely neutral like water. And it doesn’t burn so much in the mouth as it warms your chest when you swallow. But the solvents produce a noticeable mouth burn, on the tongue and in the throat.

Again, a hasty ferment can put crap in your boiler and that will come over into your product condenser. Strict cuts will help you minimize it in your product, but depending on how much was in the ferment to begin with, it may still be present throughout the run. Keeping the products at higher proof will “mask” the qualities somewhat, such that upon tempering to consume will once again bring the congeners to your taste buds.
schoolmonkey wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 4:34 am… My setup is a T500 Boiler, T500 Reflux Condenser, Copper Alembic Dome and Post Still Condenser (used for stripping runs), 4 30L fermenters.
So you stripped with the alembic top and then did a spirit run with the T500 reflux column?

Are you learning anything from your experience and the discussions here? I hope it helps. Remember, practice builds skills and your products will improve with experience.
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Re: Alcotec Vodka Star

Post by schoolmonkey »

still_stirrin wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 9:23 am So you stripped with the alembic top and then did a spirit run with the T500 reflux column?

Are you learning anything from your experience and the discussions here? I hope it helps. Remember, practice builds skills and your products will improve with experience.
ss
Yeah and that's the thing, this product was horrible, enough to screw your nose up at it, it was like a bitter fruity taste, and I don't know why, others have been acceptable, slight hint of fruitiness, but not overpowering and but dissipates over time.
Wish I had someone close that could of tasted it, describing taste in writing isn't that easy, just know it was so bad compared to the other sugar washes, none of them made you gag when tasting them.
The Turbo pure I have here, doesn't burn your through, but warms on the way down like you said, slightly sweet, but never overpowers what you use with it, the longer you leave it, the better and more mellow it gets.

I have learnt a lot here and other places, hence the stripping runs with the pot still dome, it was suggested multiple times, I run it down to the stripped wash is about 20-30%, clean out the boiler thoroughly, throw the stripped was back in, top up with clean water, run low and slow, usually throw out 250ml of fores, which would have some heads it in, then start making cuts.

I've also learn not all yeasts are the some, these packet turbos can be hit or miss and naturally made neutrals are way better.
Someone suggested yellow label angel yeast and a bag of stock feed wheat for a good clean neutral, I've got not problem with putting in extra effort to make good product, this Vodka Star was a experiment, I'm just confused where I might of gone wrong or is the packet turbo yeast just crud in itself, because I can't see where I've went wrong only that I actually used it.
The old saying, we learn from out mistakes, that's what I was trying to do with this, done about 15 sugar washes so far all done with some sort of kit (usually Still Spirits) or a TFFV to get the hang of things, never had one that was so disgusting you couldn't drink it before.

I do appreciate the feedback from everyone, and do learn by it :thumbup:
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Re: Alcotec Vodka Star

Post by Salt Must Flow »

I do Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash, but with the addition of 1.88 cups of boiled yeast per 6 gal for added nutrients. I use Fleischmann's yeast for nutrients as well as pitching yeast. It's never failed me. Turbos are something to sell, not to buy. It makes me wonder though why some company doesn't dominate the market and be known for selling the very best turbo yeast by including a packet of what makes the yeast actually happy at a proper % ABV? Instead they evidently just package crap.
Last edited by Salt Must Flow on Fri Jun 24, 2022 7:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
schoolmonkey
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Re: Alcotec Vodka Star

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Salt Must Flow wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 6:40 pm I do Wineos Plain Ol Sugar Wash, but with the addition of 1.88 cups of boiled yeast per 6 gal for added nutrients. I use Fleischmann's yeast for nutrients as well as pitching yeast. It's never failed me. Turbos are something to sell, not to buy. It makes me wonder though why some company doesn't dominate the market and be known for selling the very best turbo yeast by including a packet of what makes the yeast actually happy at a proper & ABV? Instead they evidently just package crap.
I have a adjusted printed out version of Wineos to do next, looking forward to trying it soon now that all the fermenters are free up.
Will be using Lowan Bakers Yeast, which is the same as the Fleischmann's, used Lowan in the TFFV as well, always worked out fine.

I honestly found that the Still Spirits Turbo Pure kits to be good, but instead of using 6kg's of sugar I use 7kgs, keep it at a slightly lower temp between 20-22c, the topsy turvy reason for the extra sugar is it allows the yeast to use nearly all of the packet added nutrients, it takes at least 10 - 11 days which is slower than usual, at the end it looks like everything has stopped, but it's just super slow, it does come out pretty good, you just really need to keep an eye on the temps.
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Re: Alcotec Vodka Star

Post by still_stirrin »

7kg sugar in how much water? Do you measure the OG? Do you measure the FG? High gravity ferments also can produce a lot of congeners, especially if it’s a rapid ferment supercharged by a Turbo yeast.

It’s hard to troubleshoot your mess if we don’t have all the data.
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Re: Alcotec Vodka Star

Post by schoolmonkey »

still_stirrin wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 7:14 pm 7kg sugar in how much water? Do you measure the OG? Do you measure the FG? High gravity ferments also can produce a lot of congeners, especially if it’s a rapid ferment supercharged by a Turbo yeast.

It’s hard to troubleshoot your mess if we don’t have all the data.
ss
This wasn't what I was talking about, the 7kg's of sugar was how I tweaked the Still Spirits Pure turbo kit (they suggest 6kgs), not the Alcotec Vodka Star.

Like I said before I followed exactly what was written on the back of the packet for the Vodka Star:
21L of water at 35c
6Kg's of sugar
Add Alcotec Vodka Star packet
Let ferment for 5-6 days at around 20-25c

But I did noticed it was super hyperactive for a good 2 days, to where it was extremely hard to get the temps down even when the ambient temp was about 7c in the house, it would still read around 37c (internally with a digital thermometer)
I have a feeling I should of started with a lower water temp to combat it going nuts at the start, with what you are saying.
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I have spoken to a couple of other people, some think it could of been and infection and to bleach out the fermenters.
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Re: Alcotec Vodka Star

Post by AppleWood50 »

I think either you haven't cleared the wash properly or you are not taking a large enough heads cut.

You CAN make good quality neutral from turbo yeasts and vodka star is by far one of the best turbo yeasts compared to the likes of T24.

The wash must be completely clear. Unlike the sugar wash tried and true recipes on here which can be run like milk, turbo has to be completely clear or the distillate will be full of off flavours. Turbo clear or other finnings are an absolute must use product. You simply can not make decent spirit from turbo without the use of finning agents.

When dealing with turbos I would double the heads cut that you would usually take and stop collecting your hearts when you just begin to enter tails.

Just to say again you can make decent drinkable neutral from turbos. It will never be 100% neutral without carbon but you can get it pretty close. Do I recommend turbo? Not a chance stick to the tried and true recipes here.

Just because you CAN make something decent it's a lot more work and more $$$
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