Rice wort... Tip it or stick at it?

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Octopus
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Rice wort... Tip it or stick at it?

Post by Octopus »

Hmmm. So being a bit new at this, I have come to a point where I am a little unsure about the smell from my wort. I am trying to do a basic rice wine (uncooked) with EC-1118 and have a few ideas why it is not working out (pretty sure it's a chuck job). I am asking as I think rice can grow some nasty sh** that's not good for you and thought it best check with those that have done this for a while.

I chose a Dosa rice thinking it would be a good starchy number, added near boiling water to the dry unrinsed rice, waited for an hour or so, added the rest of the water (all tap), pitched at 36°C and mixed it vigorously (the 'ol paint stirrer on the cordless drill). The first mistake I figure out later through a bit of reading was I think I blammed the lid on to the bucket WAY too soon not giving it enough oxygen time (at least this is the conclusion I came to), as 3 days later it was still doing nothing.

I am also suspect about the yeast being OK which was my initial thought but decided to go for a a stir first off, and left out in the lounge area with the heat pump cranked and the lids off for 2 hours (wanted longer without lids but the pesky fruit flys were having a crack so got worried and stuck the lids on (doing 2 buckets).

It seemed to have kicked off the activity however there was a VERY strong Sharp Aged Cheddar smell and wondering if this is normal for Rice/EC-1118 or if this is some no good bacteria wreaking havoc and trying to ruin the wort. Up do day 7 today, bubble release from the air lock has been very slow from the get go but at an all time slomo for sure now. Bucket 1 has stopped completely, and bucket 2 is releasing CO2 every 1min 40sec (fastest air lock release witnessed has been 35secs between each release for a day, next day 44secs, and drastically slower since). In my mind there is something very wrong.

I was thinking of giving it another air out and stir up but feel this is not the way forward, does anyone have any thoughts about this? The yeast was obtained from someone who kept it out in the shed, in clear zip lock bags, and will have been getting on so blaming this right off the bat in my mind, but maybe there is something really dumb I have done... Unsure?

Would appreciate any thoughts you may have.
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shadylane
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Re: Rice wort... Tip it or stick at it?

Post by shadylane »

Did you use any enzymes or angel yeast to convert the starch into fermentable sugar?
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NZChris
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Re: Rice wort... Tip it or stick at it?

Post by NZChris »

What did you use to convert the starch into fermentable sugars?
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Re: Rice wort... Tip it or stick at it?

Post by Octopus »

Thanks you two, yeah one of the things I was thinking might be at play, that the starches haven't been able to be converted. Originally loosely taken from Jesse Still It YouTube but everyone is out of stock of the yellow lable angel yeast so thought I'd try with the famous robust EC-1118.

After thoughts have been either the yellow label angel yeast contains some form of amylase or that I should have added amylase to break down those starches. I knew it was a risk not following it absolutely but hey, this is how you learn I suppose lol.
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NZChris
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Re: Rice wort... Tip it or stick at it?

Post by NZChris »

EC-1118 is nothing like Angel Yellow Label. It's very good at what it does, but it won't turn rice into likker. Feed this experiment to your pigs.
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Re: Rice wort... Tip it or stick at it?

Post by Octopus »

Hahahaha... I thought as much lol. Thanks Chris, got any pigs 😂
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Re: Rice wort... Tip it or stick at it?

Post by NZChris »

Not in Canterbury. :cry:
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Re: Rice wort... Tip it or stick at it?

Post by elbono »

You don't need pigs. My dog loves anything fermented I dump on the compost pile, from spent grain to failed experiments. She did puke up one meal after a really nasty dump of corn trub I let sit until it reeked but I'm not sure if it was quality or quantity, she really chowed down on that one. I think I've turned my dog into a lush.

On rice ferments I've just stripped my first rice experiment. I used angel yeast, rice run once through the corona mill and hot water and I'm impressed enough I bought another bag of rice pronto. Standard Costco cheap white rice (10 USD for 25 lb), it looks like it finished at about 15% abv, very nice smell, cleared well, very little trub left.

Take a look at the no sugar no mash thread, lots of angel yeast info there. It seems to work from rhizopus fungus and yeast. The label does list enzymes but I think that may be from the fungus more than intentionally added.

I'm sure you can use enzymes or malt as well but the angel route is so easy. China was producing fermented rice beverages when Europe was learning to make clay pots. They have it down pat 9000 yr later.
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Re: Rice wort... Tip it or stick at it?

Post by rubberduck71 »

FYI long grain rice will work, but the best is short grain for starch density & flavor. It's a bugger to find, so I tend to use sushi grade medium grain rice.

I've made both a whiskey & a neutral. The neutral is primo stuff. Rice is on par pound for pound with sugar, so as long as you have the yellow label angel yeast you're in the game.
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NZChris
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Re: Rice wort... Tip it or stick at it?

Post by NZChris »

Your local Asian supermarket might sell something for making fermented rice. I've never found anything in Tauranga, so I import it.
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Re: Rice wort... Tip it or stick at it?

Post by Octopus »

What a great forum, 1 day here and y'all so helpful and sharing, what a great group, thanks. I was also surprised at the lack of bulk(ish) short grains and was specifically looking for this... Good to know my thoughts around sushi rice will work well, similar reason I went for the dosa rice as it made sense.

Haven't spotted the 'no sugar no mash thread' yet, sweet! Defo be a bit of my game for sure... Elbono, your dog is nuts hahaha, unfortunately I don't have any animals to feed at the moment so must make friends with some chicken or pig farmers here locally lol

I've started collecting bits for my next one now anyway, very excited for it being Popcorns supposed original recipe. The only question it raised was the "litres" of malt which I just couldn't make sense of but in the end assumed it was because it should be ground it would be a volume not a weight.

Designing the recipe I ended up just looking up the mass of the 4 types of malt I'm going to use to convert to litres... I based it all on between 0.6 to 0.67 of 1 being water, depending on the grain type just fyi. Just waiting for the broken white corn to arrive (SO HARD TO FIND IN NZ) and hopefully should have this down by the weekend 😁
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Re: Rice wort... Tip it or stick at it?

Post by NZChris »

Ask around your local farm supplies stores for kibbled maize.
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Re: Rice wort... Tip it or stick at it?

Post by Octopus »

Isn't all the kibbled maize yellow corn though? There was a specific reference by Popcorn Sutton that he preferred the white over yellow corn and having a go at making it exactly how he would have preferred. The only thing I'm missing is wood firing, wooden mash barrel, a little more copper, some blue overalls and a beard... Maybe a little of the experience too lol. I'm being pedantic but who knows. I've had to make my own decisions on the malt percentages and type but will keep detailed records for those interested. I'll pop it up on a more relevant thread title when the time comes ✌️
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NZChris
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Re: Rice wort... Tip it or stick at it?

Post by NZChris »

If you want to get all precious about it, it needs to be the same variety, grown in the same area. Good luck with that :D

If you want to do white, or bloody, a big garden will be handy. I just use what I've got or can get cheap, or free. King's Seeds might be able to help.

I ran "probably" my last damned run of corn likker today. Oak sticks that had been toasted and charred and been in last year's AG were in the pot with this 3rd generation spirit run, (1st Gen had backset from however many generations that had preceded it), 27% UJSSM style low wines. Maize from the local PGG
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Re: Rice wort... Tip it or stick at it?

Post by Octopus »

NZChris wrote: Wed Jun 29, 2022 11:26 pm If you want to get all precious about it, it needs to be the same variety, grown in the same area. Good luck with that :D

If you want to do white, or bloody, a big garden will be handy. I just use what I've got or can get cheap, or free. King's Seeds might be able to help.

I ran "probably" my last damned run of corn likker today. Oak sticks that had been toasted and charred and been in last year's AG were in the pot with this 3rd generation spirit run, (1st Gen had backset from however many generations that had preceded it), 27% UJSSM style low wines. Maize from the local PGG
I see what you mean, you'll never get a taste of what the original was like, first timers huh :lolno: LOL I'm sure a few more miles under my belt will lessen the "precious" ROFL. Cheers for the reality check bruv :lolno:
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Ben
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Re: Rice wort... Tip it or stick at it?

Post by Ben »

Could use yeast balls for your cold rice conversion, they contain the Koji spores (like yellow label) and are available at most chinese grocers.
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Re: Rice wort... Tip it or stick at it?

Post by Octopus »

Right on Ben, cheers!
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Re: Rice wort... Tip it or stick at it?

Post by Yummyrum »

Thats the things I’ve used for Rice too Ben . Designed for making rice wine . Work well .
You crush them and mix , IIRC , one crushed ball per 1kg of cooked rice , mix it through .
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Re: Rice wort... Tip it or stick at it?

Post by Ben »

You can also usually pick up big bags of rice at the places that sell the yeast balls, and its usually inexpensive. It's been a while since I made it, I remember layering the rice with crushed up yeast balls. I gave it up when after a few batches I realized I didn't like Sake all that well, fun process though!
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