How long to age?

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armor99
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How long to age?

Post by armor99 »

So I have my first and second batch ever of Irish Whisky ageing away. From all that I have read, 4-6 months of ageing seems to be the average. But I thought I might throw this out to the forum, to see what more experienced distillers would think.

So I have quart jars, each with a different type of oak. (Different toasts, some infused with sherry, etc). Because this is the first time I am doing this, my friends and I do not really know what we like or dislike yet. So this was done to try to determine later at final tasting, what we like, or do not, and what to make more of in the future.

So the quart jar you see below, is filled to 580ml @ 52%ABV. (there are 8 more about the same). So when I add water to get to 750ml, it should be a full bottle @ 40% ABV.

So is 4-6 months not long enough? I was thinking about setting one jar aside for a super long age of a year, to see if there is a real difference? Also... The piece of oak in there is slightly smaller than a piano key. Is that too much, not enough, or the just right amount of oak for that sort of volume?

As always... your thoughts are much appreciated. :lol:
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Re: How long to age?

Post by Deplorable »

It depends on your cuts.

6 months is going to be the minimum. The longer, the better. Your oak is going to be personal choice. I cut mine about 5 inches long, and about .7 by .6 inches (to make sure they will come back out of the gallon jug when soaked in spirits and swollen). Toast them at 400F and then freeze them before charring to an alligator char. about a heavy 3 to a light 4. I put 3 sticks in a gallon jug, or one to a quart, and let them sit on the shelf in the garage for 6 months before I begin to judge them. It's rare so far that anything in glass lasts me more than a year unless I make more than a gallon of it. It's done aging when it's gone.
I have about a 5th left of some 13% rye I made 14 months ago that is still sitting on the same 3 sticks that the gallon jug started with. I'll take it off the wood when I need the jug for a new run of something.
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Re: How long to age?

Post by shadylane »

I'm thinking a half-filled jar with a big cork isn't the best way to age.
I'd use a gallon jug and a smaller cork.
Since your experimenting :thumbup:
Maybe use quart bottles instead of jars.
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Re: How long to age?

Post by shadylane »

armor99 wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 2:16 pm The piece of oak in there is slightly smaller than a piano key. Is that too much, not enough, or the just right amount of oak for that sort of volume?
I think that's way too much oak. But I'm often wrong :lol:
Here's some reading that might have an answer to your question.

viewtopic.php?t=27807

viewtopic.php?f=83&t=65418

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=37916
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Re: How long to age?

Post by armor99 »

shadylane wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 2:48 pm I'm thinking a half-filled jar with a big cork isn't the best way to age.
I'd use a gallon jug and a smaller cork.
Since your experimenting :thumbup:
Maybe use quart bottles instead of jars.
Is it a cork surface area thing? Trying to understand why a smaller cork is better?
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Re: How long to age?

Post by armor99 »

Deplorable wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 2:40 pm It depends on your cuts.

6 months is going to be the minimum. The longer, the better. Your oak is going to be personal choice. I cut mine about 5 inches long, and about .7 by .6 inches (to make sure they will come back out of the gallon jug when soaked in spirits and swollen). Toast them at 400F and then freeze them before charring to an alligator char. about a heavy 3 to a light 4. I put 3 sticks in a gallon jug, or one to a quart, and let them sit on the shelf in the garage for 6 months before I begin to judge them. It's rare so far that anything in glass lasts me more than a year unless I make more than a gallon of it. It's done aging when it's gone.
I have about a 5th left of some 13% rye I made 14 months ago that is still sitting on the same 3 sticks that the gallon jug started with. I'll take it off the wood when I need the jug for a new run of something.
Understood… min of 6 months it will be.. 😃
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Re: How long to age?

Post by shadylane »

armor99 wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 6:36 am
shadylane wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 2:48 pm I'm thinking a half-filled jar with a big cork isn't the best way to age.
I'd use a gallon jug and a smaller cork.
Since your experimenting :thumbup:
Maybe use quart bottles instead of jars.
Is it a cork surface area thing? Trying to understand why a smaller cork is better?
The alcohol will evaporate too fast in a quart jar with a big cork. That's why I use gallon jugs.
I start with a piece of cotton cloth stuffed in the mouth of the jug, like a Molotov cocktail.
Except the cloth isn't in deep enough to touch or soak up any alcohol.
After a couple days of breathing, charred and/or toasted sticks are added then I cork the jug and wait.
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Re: How long to age?

Post by jonnys_spirit »

I've got a few widemouth gallon jars and Ball jars with large corks that I use for aging on oak sticks and haven't noticed any appreciable ETOH loss over several months so I'm sticking with those for now but I also use standard gallon and 1/2 gallon jugs with the cork that fits..

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Re: How long to age?

Post by shadylane »

Another thought.
On amazon, a cheap "composite" wide mouth jar sized cork costs around $4.
A good quality, natural cork of the same size costs more.
Last edited by shadylane on Tue Jul 05, 2022 10:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How long to age?

Post by jonnys_spirit »

shadylane wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 9:31 am Another thought.
On amazon, a cheap wide mouth jar sized cork costs around $4.
A good quality, natural cork of the same size costs even more.
The widemouth gallon jar widgetco #54 corks were about $60 for ten from Amazon.

The widemouth mason jar widgetco #44 corks were about $50 for ten from Amazon.

The smaller #16 widgetco corks for carboys and gallon / half gallon jugs are about $35 for 25 corks from Amazon.

Cheers!
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Re: How long to age?

Post by The Baker »

Champagne corks upside down often fit in 2 litre (half gallon?) jugs.
Probably composite, dunno...

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Re: How long to age?

Post by Stonecutter »

jonnys_spirit wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 9:58 am
shadylane wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 9:31 am Another thought.
On amazon, a cheap wide mouth jar sized cork costs around $4.
A good quality, natural cork of the same size costs even more.
The widemouth gallon jar widgetco #54 corks were about $60 for ten from Amazon.

The widemouth mason jar widgetco #44 corks were about $50 for ten from Amazon.

The smaller #16 widgetco corks for carboys and gallon / half gallon jugs are about $35 for 25 corks from Amazon.

Cheers!
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If you go direct to those site they are a hair cheaper and it’s usually free shipping…. At least to my neck of the woods.
https://www.widgetco.com/16-cork-stoppers-extra
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Re: How long to age?

Post by cob »

armor99 wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 2:16 pm
As always... your thoughts are much appreciated. :lol:

IMG_0262.jpg
Sorry for off topic but that cork appears to be laminated.
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Re: How long to age?

Post by armor99 »

cob wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 5:13 pm
armor99 wrote: Mon Jul 04, 2022 2:16 pm
As always... your thoughts are much appreciated. :lol:

IMG_0262.jpg
Sorry for off topic but that cork appears to be laminated.
These corks come from widgetco… there are many past postings that talk about them. Natural cork, and safe adhesives used…
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Re: How long to age?

Post by NZChris »

Safe for what?

I can't see anything on their website that suggests that the adhesive is safe for aging barrel proof liquor.
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Re: How long to age?

Post by cob »

armor99 wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 6:23 pm
cob wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 5:13 pm
Sorry for off topic but that cork appears to be laminated.
These corks come from widgetco… there are many past postings that talk about them. Natural cork, and safe adhesives used…
viewtopic.php?f=41&t=19374

widgetco is a recommended vendor that carries all forms of cork products, some recommended for our purposes

and many more not recommended, like manufactured, bonded, composite, and agglomerated cork products.

finding natural stoppers large enough for a mason jar is not impossible, but it is also not as inexpensive as

something they can glue up from what they can sweep up off the floor. or make from pieces too small to sell otherwise.

bottom line your product, your choice.
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Re: How long to age?

Post by armor99 »

cob wrote: Wed Jul 06, 2022 7:52 pm
armor99 wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 6:23 pm
cob wrote: Tue Jul 05, 2022 5:13 pm
Sorry for off topic but that cork appears to be laminated.
These corks come from widgetco… there are many past postings that talk about them. Natural cork, and safe adhesives used…
viewtopic.php?f=41&t=19374

widgetco is a recommended vendor that carries all forms of cork products, some recommended for our purposes

and many more not recommended, like manufactured, bonded, composite, and agglomerated cork products.

finding natural stoppers large enough for a mason jar is not impossible, but it is also not as inexpensive as

something they can glue up from what they can sweep up off the floor. or make from pieces too small to sell otherwise.

bottom line your product, your choice.

It seems this topic has come up before on the forums. If that #44 cork from Widgetco is safe to use for aging in a mason jar or not. So I had a few spare moments today, and I called them. Sent them a nice email with the info I was looking for. If I get an answer back, I will post it to the forum. Figured I would go to the source…
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Re: How long to age?

Post by EricTheRed »

Why not get a piece of wood and cut it to fit.
Wrap with ptfe to help seal the imperfect cut.
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Re: How long to age?

Post by NZChris »

EricTheRed wrote: Wed Jul 06, 2022 9:10 pm Why not get a piece of wood and cut it to fit.
Wrap with ptfe to help seal the imperfect cut.
Because there is a good chance that it will expand and break the jar.
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Re: How long to age?

Post by NZChris »

There are plenty of larger demijohns around that have smaller necks. Be patient and grab them whenever you see them. I probably have more than enough already, but I still bought another one in a charity shop a couple of weeks ago. I didn't really need the extra jar, but it had a natural cork in it and the price was right for the jar even without the bung. The jar and the cork are in use already.
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Re: How long to age?

Post by Deplorable »

NZChris wrote: Wed Jul 06, 2022 11:09 pm There are plenty of larger demijohns around that have smaller necks. Be patient and grab them whenever you see them. I probably have more than enough already, but I still bought another one in a charity shop a couple of weeks ago. I didn't really need the extra jar, but it had a natural cork in it and the price was right for the jar even without the bung. The jar and the cork are in use already.
I regularly find 1 gallon jugs in the use again store for a couple bucks a piece. I buy them when I feel like I need another. I have 6 gallon jugs and 6 half gallon jugs as well as a few dozen cork stoppers. Im thinking I need about 4 more gallon jugs to add to the collection before this time next year.
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Re: How long to age?

Post by armor99 »

Well, I finally did get an answer in writing from Widgetco. Turns out that was correct... they do use laminated together sections on their #44 standard cork. Although they do say it is "food safe". So I guess after this batch is done, I will start aging in "growler" type containers where I can get smaller corks with nothing but cork in them. Glad this mystery is now solved.

Below is the email I got from them....

Hi,

As mentioned on the phone, our cork stopper size 44 does use a polyurethane binder. This material is food grade safety and is commonly used in agglomerated wine corks. It is one of the most well recognized food-safe glues on the market. This material meets FDA requirements and NSF regulations for food processing applications, and is non-toxic, non-marking, and non-allergenic.

Please let me know if you need any further assistance. Have a nice day.

Best Regards,
Anthony

Shop online www.widgetco.com
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Re: How long to age?

Post by NZChris »

Now that you know what the binder is, you can look up it's chemical resistance to the various components expected in your products.
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Re: How long to age?

Post by cob »

Now that you have it from the source, and appear to have made your decision.

Best of luck. viewtopic.php?f=89&t=49410&p=7270967&hi ... e#p7270967.
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Re: How long to age?

Post by Goose »

NZChris wrote: Wed Jul 06, 2022 10:38 pm
EricTheRed wrote: Wed Jul 06, 2022 9:10 pm Why not get a piece of wood and cut it to fit.
Wrap with ptfe to help seal the imperfect cut.
Because there is a good chance that it will expand and break the jar.
I came across this thread looking for a suitable way to let my jars breath without an unacceptable evaporation loss.

This is a very scary revelation :esurprised: , considering my jars are 10 litres.

But an excellent point, thanks for highlighting.
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Re: How long to age?

Post by Avalir »

For amount of time, I go by the cuts I make to determine that, or vice versa (decide aging time based on cuts); comes down to experience to be able to make that call. Regardless, longer is for the most part better (unless you over oaked). But I would think 6 months minimum for an Irish Whiskey with proper cuts would be acceptable.
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Re: How long to age?

Post by Swedish Pride »

For oaked min 6 months.
White gets better in a more linear fashion so 3 months is better than 2 .

Oaked gets better until 3months then hits an strange stage for about 3 months where it could be better or worse than it was at 3 months.
After about 6 months the improvement is about linear.
Just don't forget to let it rest for a few weeks after proofing down
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Re: How long to age?

Post by Saltbush Bill »

Iv'e yet to find a point that I think is to long...in short the longer the better.
One golden rule when oaking in glass that I think is important is that less oak for longer is better than more oak for a short time.
Swedish Pride wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 1:49 pm Just don't forget to let it rest for a few weeks after proofing down
Agree 100% there SP...........these days I always proof down way before I want it for drinking.
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Re: How long to age?

Post by Deplorable »

I find that about the time it's all gone, it's done aging.
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Re: How long to age?

Post by Bradster68 »

Deplorable wrote: Mon Aug 14, 2023 3:41 pm I find that about the time it's all gone, it's done aging.
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