How long to age?
Moderator: Site Moderator
How long to age?
So I have my first and second batch ever of Irish Whisky ageing away. From all that I have read, 4-6 months of ageing seems to be the average. But I thought I might throw this out to the forum, to see what more experienced distillers would think.
So I have quart jars, each with a different type of oak. (Different toasts, some infused with sherry, etc). Because this is the first time I am doing this, my friends and I do not really know what we like or dislike yet. So this was done to try to determine later at final tasting, what we like, or do not, and what to make more of in the future.
So the quart jar you see below, is filled to 580ml @ 52%ABV. (there are 8 more about the same). So when I add water to get to 750ml, it should be a full bottle @ 40% ABV.
So is 4-6 months not long enough? I was thinking about setting one jar aside for a super long age of a year, to see if there is a real difference? Also... The piece of oak in there is slightly smaller than a piano key. Is that too much, not enough, or the just right amount of oak for that sort of volume?
As always... your thoughts are much appreciated.
So I have quart jars, each with a different type of oak. (Different toasts, some infused with sherry, etc). Because this is the first time I am doing this, my friends and I do not really know what we like or dislike yet. So this was done to try to determine later at final tasting, what we like, or do not, and what to make more of in the future.
So the quart jar you see below, is filled to 580ml @ 52%ABV. (there are 8 more about the same). So when I add water to get to 750ml, it should be a full bottle @ 40% ABV.
So is 4-6 months not long enough? I was thinking about setting one jar aside for a super long age of a year, to see if there is a real difference? Also... The piece of oak in there is slightly smaller than a piano key. Is that too much, not enough, or the just right amount of oak for that sort of volume?
As always... your thoughts are much appreciated.
- Deplorable
- Site Donor
- Posts: 3984
- Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:10 pm
- Location: In the East, (IYKYK)
Re: How long to age?
It depends on your cuts.
6 months is going to be the minimum. The longer, the better. Your oak is going to be personal choice. I cut mine about 5 inches long, and about .7 by .6 inches (to make sure they will come back out of the gallon jug when soaked in spirits and swollen). Toast them at 400F and then freeze them before charring to an alligator char. about a heavy 3 to a light 4. I put 3 sticks in a gallon jug, or one to a quart, and let them sit on the shelf in the garage for 6 months before I begin to judge them. It's rare so far that anything in glass lasts me more than a year unless I make more than a gallon of it. It's done aging when it's gone.
I have about a 5th left of some 13% rye I made 14 months ago that is still sitting on the same 3 sticks that the gallon jug started with. I'll take it off the wood when I need the jug for a new run of something.
6 months is going to be the minimum. The longer, the better. Your oak is going to be personal choice. I cut mine about 5 inches long, and about .7 by .6 inches (to make sure they will come back out of the gallon jug when soaked in spirits and swollen). Toast them at 400F and then freeze them before charring to an alligator char. about a heavy 3 to a light 4. I put 3 sticks in a gallon jug, or one to a quart, and let them sit on the shelf in the garage for 6 months before I begin to judge them. It's rare so far that anything in glass lasts me more than a year unless I make more than a gallon of it. It's done aging when it's gone.
I have about a 5th left of some 13% rye I made 14 months ago that is still sitting on the same 3 sticks that the gallon jug started with. I'll take it off the wood when I need the jug for a new run of something.
Fear and ridicule are the tactics of weak-minded cowards and tyrants who have no other leadership talent from which to draw in order to persuade.
- shadylane
- Master of Distillation
- Posts: 10363
- Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 11:54 pm
- Location: Hiding In the Boiler room of the Insane asylum
Re: How long to age?
I'm thinking a half-filled jar with a big cork isn't the best way to age.
I'd use a gallon jug and a smaller cork.
Since your experimenting
Maybe use quart bottles instead of jars.
I'd use a gallon jug and a smaller cork.
Since your experimenting
Maybe use quart bottles instead of jars.
- shadylane
- Master of Distillation
- Posts: 10363
- Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 11:54 pm
- Location: Hiding In the Boiler room of the Insane asylum
Re: How long to age?
I think that's way too much oak. But I'm often wrong
Here's some reading that might have an answer to your question.
viewtopic.php?t=27807
viewtopic.php?f=83&t=65418
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=37916
Re: How long to age?
Is it a cork surface area thing? Trying to understand why a smaller cork is better?
Re: How long to age?
Understood… min of 6 months it will be..Deplorable wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 2:40 pm It depends on your cuts.
6 months is going to be the minimum. The longer, the better. Your oak is going to be personal choice. I cut mine about 5 inches long, and about .7 by .6 inches (to make sure they will come back out of the gallon jug when soaked in spirits and swollen). Toast them at 400F and then freeze them before charring to an alligator char. about a heavy 3 to a light 4. I put 3 sticks in a gallon jug, or one to a quart, and let them sit on the shelf in the garage for 6 months before I begin to judge them. It's rare so far that anything in glass lasts me more than a year unless I make more than a gallon of it. It's done aging when it's gone.
I have about a 5th left of some 13% rye I made 14 months ago that is still sitting on the same 3 sticks that the gallon jug started with. I'll take it off the wood when I need the jug for a new run of something.
- shadylane
- Master of Distillation
- Posts: 10363
- Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 11:54 pm
- Location: Hiding In the Boiler room of the Insane asylum
Re: How long to age?
The alcohol will evaporate too fast in a quart jar with a big cork. That's why I use gallon jugs.
I start with a piece of cotton cloth stuffed in the mouth of the jug, like a Molotov cocktail.
Except the cloth isn't in deep enough to touch or soak up any alcohol.
After a couple days of breathing, charred and/or toasted sticks are added then I cork the jug and wait.
- jonnys_spirit
- Site Donor
- Posts: 3631
- Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2015 7:58 am
- Location: The Milky Way
Re: How long to age?
I've got a few widemouth gallon jars and Ball jars with large corks that I use for aging on oak sticks and haven't noticed any appreciable ETOH loss over several months so I'm sticking with those for now but I also use standard gallon and 1/2 gallon jugs with the cork that fits..
Cheers!
-j
Cheers!
-j
————
i prefer my mash shaken, not stirred
————
i prefer my mash shaken, not stirred
————
- shadylane
- Master of Distillation
- Posts: 10363
- Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 11:54 pm
- Location: Hiding In the Boiler room of the Insane asylum
Re: How long to age?
Another thought.
On amazon, a cheap "composite" wide mouth jar sized cork costs around $4.
A good quality, natural cork of the same size costs more.
On amazon, a cheap "composite" wide mouth jar sized cork costs around $4.
A good quality, natural cork of the same size costs more.
Last edited by shadylane on Tue Jul 05, 2022 10:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
- jonnys_spirit
- Site Donor
- Posts: 3631
- Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2015 7:58 am
- Location: The Milky Way
Re: How long to age?
The widemouth gallon jar widgetco #54 corks were about $60 for ten from Amazon.
The widemouth mason jar widgetco #44 corks were about $50 for ten from Amazon.
The smaller #16 widgetco corks for carboys and gallon / half gallon jugs are about $35 for 25 corks from Amazon.
Cheers!
-j
————
i prefer my mash shaken, not stirred
————
i prefer my mash shaken, not stirred
————
-
- Master of Distillation
- Posts: 4659
- Joined: Sun Aug 27, 2006 4:48 am
- Location: Northern Victoria, Australia
Re: How long to age?
Champagne corks upside down often fit in 2 litre (half gallon?) jugs.
Probably composite, dunno...
Geoff
Probably composite, dunno...
Geoff
The Baker
- Stonecutter
- Site Donor
- Posts: 1911
- Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:40 pm
- Location: Somewhere within the Milkyway
Re: How long to age?
If you go direct to those site they are a hair cheaper and it’s usually free shipping…. At least to my neck of the woods.jonnys_spirit wrote: ↑Tue Jul 05, 2022 9:58 amThe widemouth gallon jar widgetco #54 corks were about $60 for ten from Amazon.
The widemouth mason jar widgetco #44 corks were about $50 for ten from Amazon.
The smaller #16 widgetco corks for carboys and gallon / half gallon jugs are about $35 for 25 corks from Amazon.
Cheers!
-j
https://www.widgetco.com/16-cork-stoppers-extra
Freedom had been hunted round the globe; reason was considered as rebellion; and the slavery of fear had made men afraid to think. But such is the irresistible nature of truth, that all it asks, and all it wants, is the liberty of appearing.
-Thomas Paine
-Thomas Paine
-
- Master of Distillation
- Posts: 2691
- Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2009 4:38 pm
- Location: little puffs of dust where my feet used to be
Re: How long to age?
These corks come from widgetco… there are many past postings that talk about them. Natural cork, and safe adhesives used…
Re: How long to age?
Safe for what?
I can't see anything on their website that suggests that the adhesive is safe for aging barrel proof liquor.
I can't see anything on their website that suggests that the adhesive is safe for aging barrel proof liquor.
-
- Master of Distillation
- Posts: 2691
- Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2009 4:38 pm
- Location: little puffs of dust where my feet used to be
Re: How long to age?
viewtopic.php?f=41&t=19374
widgetco is a recommended vendor that carries all forms of cork products, some recommended for our purposes
and many more not recommended, like manufactured, bonded, composite, and agglomerated cork products.
finding natural stoppers large enough for a mason jar is not impossible, but it is also not as inexpensive as
something they can glue up from what they can sweep up off the floor. or make from pieces too small to sell otherwise.
bottom line your product, your choice.
be water my friend
Re: How long to age?
cob wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 7:52 pmviewtopic.php?f=41&t=19374
widgetco is a recommended vendor that carries all forms of cork products, some recommended for our purposes
and many more not recommended, like manufactured, bonded, composite, and agglomerated cork products.
finding natural stoppers large enough for a mason jar is not impossible, but it is also not as inexpensive as
something they can glue up from what they can sweep up off the floor. or make from pieces too small to sell otherwise.
bottom line your product, your choice.
It seems this topic has come up before on the forums. If that #44 cork from Widgetco is safe to use for aging in a mason jar or not. So I had a few spare moments today, and I called them. Sent them a nice email with the info I was looking for. If I get an answer back, I will post it to the forum. Figured I would go to the source…
- EricTheRed
- Site Donor
- Posts: 1108
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2021 10:49 pm
- Location: South Africa
Re: How long to age?
Why not get a piece of wood and cut it to fit.
Wrap with ptfe to help seal the imperfect cut.
Wrap with ptfe to help seal the imperfect cut.
My fekking eyes are bleeding! Installed BS Filters - better! :D
Life has gotten interesting!
Life has gotten interesting!
Re: How long to age?
Because there is a good chance that it will expand and break the jar.EricTheRed wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 9:10 pm Why not get a piece of wood and cut it to fit.
Wrap with ptfe to help seal the imperfect cut.
Re: How long to age?
There are plenty of larger demijohns around that have smaller necks. Be patient and grab them whenever you see them. I probably have more than enough already, but I still bought another one in a charity shop a couple of weeks ago. I didn't really need the extra jar, but it had a natural cork in it and the price was right for the jar even without the bung. The jar and the cork are in use already.
- Deplorable
- Site Donor
- Posts: 3984
- Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:10 pm
- Location: In the East, (IYKYK)
Re: How long to age?
I regularly find 1 gallon jugs in the use again store for a couple bucks a piece. I buy them when I feel like I need another. I have 6 gallon jugs and 6 half gallon jugs as well as a few dozen cork stoppers. Im thinking I need about 4 more gallon jugs to add to the collection before this time next year.NZChris wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 11:09 pm There are plenty of larger demijohns around that have smaller necks. Be patient and grab them whenever you see them. I probably have more than enough already, but I still bought another one in a charity shop a couple of weeks ago. I didn't really need the extra jar, but it had a natural cork in it and the price was right for the jar even without the bung. The jar and the cork are in use already.
Fear and ridicule are the tactics of weak-minded cowards and tyrants who have no other leadership talent from which to draw in order to persuade.
Re: How long to age?
Well, I finally did get an answer in writing from Widgetco. Turns out that was correct... they do use laminated together sections on their #44 standard cork. Although they do say it is "food safe". So I guess after this batch is done, I will start aging in "growler" type containers where I can get smaller corks with nothing but cork in them. Glad this mystery is now solved.
Below is the email I got from them....
Hi,
As mentioned on the phone, our cork stopper size 44 does use a polyurethane binder. This material is food grade safety and is commonly used in agglomerated wine corks. It is one of the most well recognized food-safe glues on the market. This material meets FDA requirements and NSF regulations for food processing applications, and is non-toxic, non-marking, and non-allergenic.
Please let me know if you need any further assistance. Have a nice day.
Best Regards,
Anthony
Shop online www.widgetco.com
Below is the email I got from them....
Hi,
As mentioned on the phone, our cork stopper size 44 does use a polyurethane binder. This material is food grade safety and is commonly used in agglomerated wine corks. It is one of the most well recognized food-safe glues on the market. This material meets FDA requirements and NSF regulations for food processing applications, and is non-toxic, non-marking, and non-allergenic.
Please let me know if you need any further assistance. Have a nice day.
Best Regards,
Anthony
Shop online www.widgetco.com
Re: How long to age?
Now that you know what the binder is, you can look up it's chemical resistance to the various components expected in your products.
-
- Master of Distillation
- Posts: 2691
- Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2009 4:38 pm
- Location: little puffs of dust where my feet used to be
Re: How long to age?
Now that you have it from the source, and appear to have made your decision.
Best of luck. viewtopic.php?f=89&t=49410&p=7270967&hi ... e#p7270967.
Best of luck. viewtopic.php?f=89&t=49410&p=7270967&hi ... e#p7270967.
be water my friend
Re: How long to age?
I came across this thread looking for a suitable way to let my jars breath without an unacceptable evaporation loss.NZChris wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 10:38 pmBecause there is a good chance that it will expand and break the jar.EricTheRed wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 9:10 pm Why not get a piece of wood and cut it to fit.
Wrap with ptfe to help seal the imperfect cut.
This is a very scary revelation , considering my jars are 10 litres.
But an excellent point, thanks for highlighting.
The Power of Positive Drinking
Re: How long to age?
For amount of time, I go by the cuts I make to determine that, or vice versa (decide aging time based on cuts); comes down to experience to be able to make that call. Regardless, longer is for the most part better (unless you over oaked). But I would think 6 months minimum for an Irish Whiskey with proper cuts would be acceptable.
"I am a man. And I can change. If I want to. I guess." ~Red Green
- Swedish Pride
- Site Donor
- Posts: 2644
- Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2014 2:16 am
- Location: Emerald Isle
Re: How long to age?
For oaked min 6 months.
White gets better in a more linear fashion so 3 months is better than 2 .
Oaked gets better until 3months then hits an strange stage for about 3 months where it could be better or worse than it was at 3 months.
After about 6 months the improvement is about linear.
Just don't forget to let it rest for a few weeks after proofing down
White gets better in a more linear fashion so 3 months is better than 2 .
Oaked gets better until 3months then hits an strange stage for about 3 months where it could be better or worse than it was at 3 months.
After about 6 months the improvement is about linear.
Just don't forget to let it rest for a few weeks after proofing down
Don't be a dick
- Saltbush Bill
- Site Mod
- Posts: 9676
- Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2011 2:13 am
- Location: Northern NSW Australia
Re: How long to age?
Iv'e yet to find a point that I think is to long...in short the longer the better.
One golden rule when oaking in glass that I think is important is that less oak for longer is better than more oak for a short time.
One golden rule when oaking in glass that I think is important is that less oak for longer is better than more oak for a short time.
Agree 100% there SP...........these days I always proof down way before I want it for drinking.Swedish Pride wrote: ↑Mon Aug 14, 2023 1:49 pm Just don't forget to let it rest for a few weeks after proofing down
- Deplorable
- Site Donor
- Posts: 3984
- Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2020 12:10 pm
- Location: In the East, (IYKYK)
Re: How long to age?
I find that about the time it's all gone, it's done aging.
Fear and ridicule are the tactics of weak-minded cowards and tyrants who have no other leadership talent from which to draw in order to persuade.
-
- Site Donor
- Posts: 2196
- Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2021 9:57 am
- Location: Canada
Re: How long to age?
.Deplorable wrote: ↑Mon Aug 14, 2023 3:41 pm I find that about the time it's all gone, it's done aging.
I drink so much now,on the back of my license it's a list of organs I need.