Doubling distillate volume with equal sized thumper?

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Doubling distillate volume with equal sized thumper?

Postby telefonica » Sun Apr 14, 2019 1:20 pm

I have a converted 15.5 gal keg that I use as a boiler for my pot still. Recently, I've been considering adding another 15.5 gal keg as a thumper. Is my understanding correct that I could effectively double my output by doing so? Essentially, my stripping run would be 10 gal of wash in both my main and thumper, and my spirit run would be low wines equally split between my main and thumper? By doing so, I'd be doubling my output?

That's not how it got the name "doubler", correct? My understanding was that it got that name because it would increase (or possibly double) the ABV.

Thanks!
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Re: Doubling distillate volume with equal sized thumper?

Postby Kareltje » Sun Apr 14, 2019 1:52 pm

More or less, yes.
To heat up the thumper the boiler has to transport a certain volume to the thumper. This enhances both the volume and the ABV in the thumper, so the ABV leaving the thumper is higher than the ABV leaving the boiler, and the thumper will also be more filled.
Truckinbutch uses a boiler and thumper that are both 15 gallons, if I am correct. I use a boiler and thumper of 10 liters. Among other uses for running 15 liters of wash: 8 in the boiler, 7 in the thumper. Less low wines of a higher ABV in one run.
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Re: Doubling distillate volume with equal sized thumper?

Postby dukethebeagle120 » Sun Apr 14, 2019 1:53 pm

Yup
When doing strip run
Works great
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Re: Doubling distillate volume with equal sized thumper?

Postby NZChris » Sun Apr 14, 2019 2:17 pm

A preheater gives you multiple strips with only one wait for heat up.
https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=87&t=66230
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Re: Doubling distillate volume with equal sized thumper?

Postby Truckinbutch » Sun Apr 14, 2019 6:57 pm

I ferment 30 gallon AG batches . That normally yields me 12.5 gallons of clear yield for my gas fired boiler . Straining and squeezing the remaining mash will yield approximately 12.5 gallons of cloudy mash for my thumper . Do a couple of strip runs of that and you have enough for a large spirit run where you do your cuts and blending .
Don't forget to cut what you rerun to below 40% before running .
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Re: Doubling distillate volume with equal sized thumper?

Postby dukethebeagle120 » Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:51 am

Kareltje wrote:More or less, yes.
To heat up the thumper the boiler has to transport a certain volume to the thumper. This enhances both the volume and the ABV in the thumper, so the ABV leaving the thumper is higher than the ABV leaving the boiler, and the thumper will also be more filled.
Truckinbutch uses a boiler and thumper that are both 15 gallons, if I am correct. I use a boiler and thumper of 10 liters. Among other uses for running 15 liters of wash: 8 in the boiler, 7 in the thumper. Less low wines of a higher ABV in one run.

I use 2 15.5 gallon kegs also
its better to think like a fool but keep your mouth shut,then to open ur mouth and have it confirmed
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Re: Doubling distillate volume with equal sized thumper?

Postby monkey shine » Tue Apr 23, 2019 8:48 pm

I've been lurking and researching this site for awhile and have benefitted immensely from this generous community. Thanks to all.

After much research and deliberation, I added a 12 gal thumper to my 8 gal milk can boiler...52" packed 2" column. Without preheating, I have an additional 30 minutes before I start dripping when the thumper is being used. I'm using 2000W cooking coil for the boiler. When on high, my output is @40 ml/min. I was given a huge aluminum cooking pot with a lid and figured if it didn't work out then not much out of pocket loss. I would recommend to go bigger than smaller on a thumper. Like previously mentioned, added volume when making stripping or spirit runs is helpful. I have had a lot of success using my large thumper for gin and adding essence to spirits. I made a removable screened copper shelf that my botanicals/fruit sit on.

Made a couple of adjustment to Odin's Gin recipe....thanks again, and have a wicked spirit.

Aloha, from the islands.
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Re: Doubling distillate volume with equal sized thumper?

Postby Kareltje » Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:50 pm

Please explain. So your thumper is 1.5 times as large as your boiler and you have a column on top of your thumper? Do I understand that correctly?

Speaking for myself: I would very much hesitate to have a thumper that is much larger than the boiler for fear of running the boiler dry. And I run on natural gas, not with electric elements. Once I had only a half liter/quart left in the boiler!
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Re: Doubling distillate volume with equal sized thumper?

Postby Allmyexsliveinhell » Wed Apr 24, 2019 4:55 pm

monkey shine wrote:I've been lurking and researching this site for awhile and have benefitted immensely from this generous community. Thanks to all.

After much research and deliberation, I added a 12 gal thumper to my 8 gal milk can boiler...52" packed 2" column. Without preheating, I have an additional 30 minutes before I start dripping when the thumper is being used. I'm using 2000W cooking coil for the boiler. When on high, my output is @40 ml/min. I was given a huge aluminum cooking pot with a lid and figured if it didn't work out then not much out of pocket loss. I would recommend to go bigger than smaller on a thumper. Like previously mentioned, added volume when making stripping or spirit runs is helpful. I have had a lot of success using my large thumper for gin and adding essence to spirits. I made a removable screened copper shelf that my botanicals/fruit sit on.

Made a couple of adjustment to Odin's Gin recipe....thanks again, and have a wicked spirit.

Aloha, from the islands.



Aluminum is not good for boiler/thumper material
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https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=73476-15.5gallon Keg with Thumper
https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=73737-six gallon electric stripper
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Re: Doubling distillate volume with equal sized thumper?

Postby monkey shine » Wed Apr 24, 2019 5:13 pm

I have not had a problem running dry in the boiler. If one did, then you would more than likely be at the end of the run (zero output) and/or the abv output would be down to nearly zero. As an example I ran a batch of Gin yesterday. I loaded my boiler with 1.5 gal of 100 pf spirits and added 2 gal of water and thumper had 3.5 gal. I dilute down this far because it maximizes the vapor time for my botanicals. I ran it down to 10 abv and shut it down. I had @ 1/2 gal of charge left in the boiler. I'm not sure if anything serious would happen if the boiler went dry but we should be paying attention to our rigs when the running anyways. Here's a pic of my setup, I can break it down to a simple quick stripper with out the column.

I'm sure if I'm wrong someone will respond.

As for the thumper being aluminum, I was under the impression people didn't recommend them because of the thickness being thin, oxidizing, pitting and wearing out. My walls are 5/16" and will take forever to wear out.

Aloha.
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Re: Doubling distillate volume with equal sized thumper?

Postby Yummyrum » Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:59 pm

I can fairly accurately tell the level in my boiler and thumper by tapping the handle of my adjustable wrench against the side .
A metalic ring above the level , a dull thud below the level .
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Re: Doubling distillate volume with equal sized thumper?

Postby Kareltje » Fri Apr 26, 2019 3:52 pm

Yummyrum wrote:I can fairly accurately tell the level in my boiler and thumper by tapping the handle of my adjustable wrench against the side .
A metalic ring above the level , a dull thud below the level .

I have an insulating mantle around my vessels, so I can not tap them. But I will remember your advise!
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Re: Doubling distillate volume with equal sized thumper?

Postby Kareltje » Fri Apr 26, 2019 4:21 pm

monkey shine wrote:I have not had a problem running dry in the boiler. If one did, then you would more than likely be at the end of the run (zero output) and/or the abv output would be down to nearly zero. As an example I ran a batch of Gin yesterday. I loaded my boiler with 1.5 gal of 100 pf spirits and added 2 gal of water and thumper had 3.5 gal. I dilute down this far because it maximizes the vapor time for my botanicals. I ran it down to 10 abv and shut it down. I had @ 1/2 gal of charge left in the boiler. I'm not sure if anything serious would happen if the boiler went dry but we should be paying attention to our rigs when the running anyways. Here's a pic of my setup, I can break it down to a simple quick stripper with out the column.
So until now you did not use the volumes to their full extent: you had the same volume in boiler and in thumper. If running an empty boiler is a bad idea, depends on your rig. I would not like my boiler being heated without any content. And an electrical element that runs dry can be dangerous.
But indeed: when a boiler runs dry, the distillation via a thumper will stop.

I'm sure if I'm wrong someone will respond.

As for the thumper being aluminum, I was under the impression people didn't recommend them because of the thickness being thin, oxidizing, pitting and wearing out. My walls are 5/16" and will take forever to wear out.

Aloha.

You are possibly right.

Aluminium is susceptible for both high and low pH. And it is not a nice metal to ingest. But the pH of low wines should be around neutral.

The proportions of thumper vs boiler are limited by running the boiler dry and overflooding the thumper. And these risks depend on how you use both boiler and thumper.
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Re: Doubling distillate volume with equal sized thumper?

Postby monkey shine » Fri Apr 26, 2019 6:57 pm

So until now you did not use the volumes to their full extent: you had the same volume in boiler and in thumper. If running an empty boiler is a bad idea, depends on your rig. I would not like my boiler being heated without any content. And an electrical element that runs dry can be dangerous.
But indeed: when a boiler runs dry, the distillation via a thumper will stop."


Correct, I have not max'd them out yet.....most was 5 gal x 5 gal. Of course this left me plenty of room in the thumper and wash in the boiler.

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Re: Doubling distillate volume with equal sized thumper?

Postby Skinnerback » Sat Apr 27, 2019 6:29 pm

I use two 15.5 gal kegs. Into a thumper when bypass is closed. Works great. I do put a little less into the second keg to allow room for the transferred liquid from the first keg. I heat the second keg whilw the first is heating until I can hear it start to thump and let the first keg do the heating. It nearly doubles my output with a short addition of time. Also can use as a steamer with mash in second and water in first keg. I think it was a good and worthwhile addition.
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Re: Doubling distillate volume with equal sized thumper?

Postby Truckinbutch » Sat Apr 27, 2019 7:04 pm

Skinnerback wrote:I use two 15.5 gal kegs. Into a thumper when bypass is closed. Works great. I do put a little less into the second keg to allow room for the transferred liquid from the first keg. I heat the second keg whilw the first is heating until I can hear it start to thump and let the first keg do the heating. It nearly doubles my output with a short addition of time. Also can use as a steamer with mash in second and water in first keg. I think it was a good and worthwhile addition.

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Re: Doubling distillate volume with equal sized thumper?

Postby Yummyrum » Sat Apr 27, 2019 7:38 pm

Skinnerback wrote: Also can use as a steamer with mash in second and water in first keg.


I do that too when stripping Rice . I pour all the rice slurry ( about 50 liters ) into my 80 liter keg and steam strip it with my 50 liter keg full of water .By the time its done , the 80 liter keg is almost full .
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Re: Doubling distillate volume with equal sized thumper?

Postby Kareltje » Fri May 03, 2019 1:11 pm

You are right, that is good use of a larger thumper!
Lacking a larger thumper I ran a boiler with 10 liters water and distilled two times a 10 l thumper with 5 l slurry. Your system is more effective.
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Re: Doubling distillate volume with equal sized thumper?

Postby dukethebeagle120 » Sat May 04, 2019 2:59 am

Yummyrum wrote:
Skinnerback wrote: Also can use as a steamer with mash in second and water in first keg.


I do that too when stripping Rice . I pour all the rice slurry ( about 50 liters ) into my 80 liter keg and steam strip it with my 50 liter keg full of water .By the time its done , the 80 liter keg is almost full .
0CEBF4F5-F3E5-4A3D-9231-A65F6958A5C7.jpeg

I do the same with whiskey
Take the clear available,fill primary with water.
Slurry and muck in th thumpkeg
Sometimes i use a 7 gallon primary if i have less clear.
It takes less gas and heat to keep it rolling
If i have more clear ill use a 15.5 or a 12,depends on the quantity of clear.
But ya,theres no problem running a 7 gallon primary and a 15.5 gallon thumper
Or whatever you use.
As long as you can heat it effeciently
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Re: Doubling distillate volume with equal sized thumper?

Postby MichiganCornhusker » Sat May 04, 2019 5:26 am

I have the 2 15 gal keg setup and it is great for stripping, steaming, stilling, shooting, everything.
It’s very versatile, I love it.

I have run my boiler dry buy doing repeated steam stripping runs and can say that one of the problems is that even if the liquid in the boiler is very clear you will scorch any solids in it. Even a small scorch smell will push over into the thumper and ruin a run.

Btw, nice Mustang. :thumbup:
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Re: Doubling distillate volume with equal sized thumper?

Postby Yummyrum » Sat May 04, 2019 5:45 am

MichiganCornhusker wrote:I have run my boiler dry.......one of the problems is that even if the liquid in the boiler is very clear you will scorch any solids in it. Even a small scorch smell will push over into the thumper and ruin a run. :


True words MCH . There is a sad sinking feeling when you smell the acrid stench come out the condenser and suddenly realise your boiler is dry .
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