Is it okay to join some fittings with teflon tape?

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Asos21
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Is it okay to join some fittings with teflon tape?

Post by Asos21 »

Some of my fittings especially the 15mm copper elbow that connects the riser to the condenser I don't really want to solder. I want them to be easily dismantled for cleaning and maintenance.

I was planning to seal these be making 4-5 turns around the copper pipe with teflon tape. Inserting that teflon end of the copper pipe into the elbow fitting. Then making a few turns around the outside of the joint with teflon tape. Then a hose clamp over the top to make a tight seal.

Would this be okay as an alternative to soldering for fittings which I need to be able to dismantle for maintenance?
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Yummyrum
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Re: Is it okay to join some fittings with teflon tape?

Post by Yummyrum »

Not what I would do …. But if its secure , and doesn’t leak … why not .
Hell , some folk seal stuff with flour paste .
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Re: Is it okay to join some fittings with teflon tape?

Post by jonnys_spirit »

I find the tape to be fairly lubricating and the joints will rotate and slip easier. I’d recommend soldering to make them rigid. Running hot acidic vapor on a strip run and high proof hot ethanol vapor on strips and spirits also keeps the internals pretty clean.

TC fittings are good for take apart and copper unions too. Copper solder cup to threaded npt also make it easy to integrate TC.

I use flour dough for my press fit alembic onion top and that works well too.

Copper soldering is pretty easy if you practice on some test fittings and pipe. Don’t use leaded solder and do use flux. Clean and polish the mating pieces before you fit and solder them. You can get those in the plumbing section and a propane or mapp torch. Invest in a couple tools for cutting, deburring, and polishing the pipe ends. It’s worth it.

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Re: Is it okay to join some fittings with teflon tape?

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Yummyrum wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 4:38 am Not what I would do …. But if its secure , and doesn’t leak … why not .
Hell , some folk seal stuff with flour paste .
LOL
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Re: Is it okay to join some fittings with teflon tape?

Post by NZChris »

I do it. I go over mine with electrical tape to keep it tight. I don’t want that joint soldered as I want it to be able to move.
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Re: Is it okay to join some fittings with teflon tape?

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NZChris wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 10:53 am I do it. I go over mine with electrical tape to keep it tight. I don’t want that joint soldered as I want it to be able to move.
Cool idea!
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Kareltje
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Re: Is it okay to join some fittings with teflon tape?

Post by Kareltje »

I do not know where you live or how these couplings are called in your language, but I use a lot of these:
Knel-T-stuk.jpg
and more open shown:
Knel-knie.jpg
Knel-knie.jpg (13.42 KiB) Viewed 2530 times
They are used, without the white tape, for both gas and water systems and I use them in my stills.
No problems at all. And the main advantage: you do not need any teflon tape. This tape is very polluting in its production and can not be degraded or burned, so will go make mucht more problems than the plastic or silicone soup.
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Re: Is it okay to join some fittings with teflon tape?

Post by acfixer69 »

Kareltje wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 3:21 pm I do not know where you live or how these couplings are called in your language, but I use a lot of these:

Knel-T-stuk.jpg

and more open shown:


Knel-knie.jpg

They are used, without the white tape, for both gas and water systems and I use them in my stills.
No problems at all. And the main advantage: you do not need any teflon tape. This tape is very polluting in its production and can not be degraded or burned, so will go make mucht more problems than the plastic or silicone soup.
These are called compression fittings in the USA.. Should be used with caution as they're not completely lead free. Approval is for hot water not hot ethanol.
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Re: Is it okay to join some fittings with teflon tape?

Post by Demy »

Kareltje wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 3:21 pm I do not know where you live or how these couplings are called in your language, but I use a lot of these:

Knel-T-stuk.jpg

and more open shown:

Knel-knie.jpg

They are used, without the white tape, for both gas and water systems and I use them in my stills.
No problems at all. And the main advantage: you do not need any teflon tape. This tape is very polluting in its production and can not be degraded or burned, so will go make mucht more problems than the plastic or silicone soup.
I believe they are compression fittings, but they may have another local name
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Re: Is it okay to join some fittings with teflon tape?

Post by cob »

copper unions work well, but your tin cup is noisy.
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Re: Is it okay to join some fittings with teflon tape?

Post by Ben »

acfixer69 wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 3:49 pm
Kareltje wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 3:21 pm I do not know where you live or how these couplings are called in your language, but I use a lot of these:

Knel-T-stuk.jpg

and more open shown:


Knel-knie.jpg

They are used, without the white tape, for both gas and water systems and I use them in my stills.
No problems at all. And the main advantage: you do not need any teflon tape. This tape is very polluting in its production and can not be degraded or burned, so will go make mucht more problems than the plastic or silicone soup.
These are called compression fittings in the USA.. Should be used with caution as they're not completely lead free. Approval is for hot water not hot ethanol.
You can get them in stainless. Look up Swagelok as an example.

You can get swagelok to camlock or TC or NPT for very easy to assemble quick connects.
:)
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Re: Is it okay to join some fittings with teflon tape?

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Asos21 wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 4:26 am Some of my fittings especially the 15mm copper elbow that connects the riser to the condenser I don't really want to solder. I want them to be easily dismantled for cleaning and maintenance.

I was planning to seal these be making 4-5 turns around the copper pipe with teflon tape. Inserting that teflon end of the copper pipe into the elbow fitting. Then making a few turns around the outside of the joint with teflon tape. Then a hose clamp over the top to make a tight seal.

Would this be okay as an alternative to soldering for fittings which I need to be able to dismantle for maintenance?
My pot still is slip jointed just like that except no hose clamps. To keep them together I have a copper loop on either side of them and after assembling and wrapping the outside a couple times I use some safety wire, or tie wraps...(or speaker wire :roll: ) to keep them from pulling apart. I've never had any issues with it and an advantage is if for some reason it begins to leak or seep the PTFE tape will become translucent so it's easy to spot.
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Re: Is it okay to join some fittings with teflon tape?

Post by NZChris »

When I do use compression fittings, I've stopped using the supplied 'olives', preferring to wrap the tube with PTFE tape. The olives are a PITA to remove if you need to. PTFE tape seals just as well and can be cut off with a sharp knife if you come up with a better idea. If you want to save the planet from PTFE, hemp would work just as well.
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Re: Is it okay to join some fittings with teflon tape?

Post by Yummyrum »

NZChris wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 11:16 pm When I do use compression fittings, I've stopped using the supplied 'olives', preferring to wrap the tube with PTFE tape. The olives are a PITA to remove if you need to. PTFE tape seals just as well and can be cut off with a sharp knife if you come up with a better idea. If you want to save the planet from PTFE, hemp would work just as well.
Agree on all accounts Chris . :thumbup:
Teflon tape makes excellent Olives for compression fittings.

It’s almost comical that plumbers have used hemp for longer than they’ve used teflon . There are more fittings in my old house with hemp than there are teflon tape .

You may well be bang on that it goes full circle . :D
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Re: Is it okay to join some fittings with teflon tape?

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NZChris wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 11:16 pm When I do use compression fittings, I've stopped using the supplied 'olives', preferring to wrap the tube with PTFE tape. The olives are a PITA to remove if you need to. PTFE tape seals just as well and can be cut off with a sharp knife if you come up with a better idea. If you want to save the planet from PTFE, hemp would work just as well.
That is good information! The standard brass compression olive (called a ferrule hear) is a PITA to remove. I have never seen hemp used in plumbing. Ever. Googled it up. Pretty cool thread sealant idea. I will try the PTFE tape next time.
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Re: Is it okay to join some fittings with teflon tape?

Post by Asos21 »

Just wanted to update you guys on how my fittings look and work!

So I'm basically wrapping the male end of the pipe in 2 layers of PTFE tape. Inserting this into the joint. Then I'm wrapping the outside of the joint in 5-10 layers of PTFE tape.

I'm then wrapping over the outside of the PTFE tape with food grade silicone tape. This stuff amagalates so much better than PTFE tape and it can withstand 600psi and up to 260 degrees Celsius without even a pipe clamp.

I'm then putting a pipe clamp on either end of the silicone tape just as a final fail safe. I don't like leaks and they honestly make me pretty anxious.

Yes I know silicone! But the silicone never comes into contact with the ethanol. It just provides a tight seal over the PTFE!

One concern I have, could the hose clamps if over tightened crush or crack the copper pipe?
IMG_20211218_135901_376.jpg
IMG_20211218_135854_618.jpg
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Re: Is it okay to join some fittings with teflon tape?

Post by still_stirrin »

Asos21 wrote: Sat Dec 18, 2021 6:09 am… One concern I have, could the hose clamps if over tightened crush or crack the copper pipe?
Man Asos21, that looks terribly “ghetto”… it’s beyond hillbilly!

I seriously doubt you’ll “crush or crack” the copper pipe with the hose clamps, even if over-tightened. But, you certainly could cut and destroy any form of “vapor seal” the conglomeration of tapes might make over the pipe joint.
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Re: Is it okay to join some fittings with teflon tape?

Post by Asos21 »

still_stirrin wrote: Sat Dec 18, 2021 6:43 am
Asos21 wrote: Sat Dec 18, 2021 6:09 am… One concern I have, could the hose clamps if over tightened crush or crack the copper pipe?
Man Asos21, that looks terribly “ghetto”… it’s beyond hillbilly!

I seriously doubt you’ll “crush or crack” the copper pipe with the hose clamps, even if over-tightened. But, you certainly could cut and destroy any form of “vapor seal” the conglomeration of tapes might make over the pipe joint.
ss
Okay would I be better off using some zip ties? Could even just put some gorilla tape on top of the silicone. It's not like the vapour is going to touch the silicone anyways!

Not even sure it needs any of this. Guess the PTFE and silicone would hold it well enough alone!
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Re: Is it okay to join some fittings with teflon tape?

Post by Kareltje »

Sorry, but I feel it is shooting with a canon on a mosquito.
But everybody has his own hobbies, I guess.
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Re: Is it okay to join some fittings with teflon tape?

Post by cranky »

That is a whole lot of overkill IMHO :shock:

Here is a pix of mine :roll:
fitting - C.JPG
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Re: Is it okay to join some fittings with teflon tape?

Post by squigglefunk »

I used an all copper union for the joint

Image

no teflon, no brass in the vapor path, and no leaks
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Re: Is it okay to join some fittings with teflon tape?

Post by roryh »

I don't know about stills but my knee jerk thought is that if the OP wants to avoid soldering then an SAE 45° flared fitting would be a good option -- worth a look. These are more reliable than compression fittings (reliable enough that it's typically legal to bury flared fittings). And there's no olive to deal with (olives should be replaced when a fitting is reused). OTOH, the spirits would come in contact with brass which some ppl said is a bad idea. Flared fittings are available in materials other than brass, but I'm not sure if any of the non-brass ones are compatible with copper (certainly some are not).
Dancing4dan wrote: Sat Dec 18, 2021 5:44 am
NZChris wrote: Fri Dec 17, 2021 11:16 pm When I do use compression fittings, I've stopped using the supplied 'olives', preferring to wrap the tube with PTFE tape. The olives are a PITA to remove if you need to. …
…The standard brass compression olive (called a ferrule hear) is a PITA to remove.
The conventional technique is to set an adjustible wrench to fit loosely around the pipe and whack it against the nut that interfaces with the olive. If it doesn’t budge, there is an “olive puller” -- a simple tool that similar to the crank pulling tool used for bicycle repair.
Dancing4dan wrote: Sat Dec 18, 2021 5:44 am I have never seen hemp used in plumbing. Ever. Googled it up. Pretty cool thread sealant idea. I will try the PTFE tape next time.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oakum

It’s actually preferred over tape by pro plumbers in Belgium (where they call it “hair”). Some advantages:
  • more robust. Unlike ptfe tape if you remove a fitting with that used hair, you don't need to remove the hair and redo it. You can remove a fitting for whatever reason and put it back on often without having to add more hair. With tape you pretty much have to throw it away and rewrap (I think).
  • when you are turning the fitting on (which may be a valve or spiquet where orientation matters), if you realize you went a little too far and need to untwist it a little, going the other direction in the slightest will often cause PTFE tape to leak, in which case you need to remove it and start all over. Hair is forgiving about that.
  • it's surprising how much PTFE tape is needed, which serves as a /gotcha/ to novices. I've installed valves that needed so much tape that the threads were no longer distinguishable. It compresses surprisingly well. I think my first experience with tape required me to remove the fitting 3 or so times and pile more tape on.
  • (unverified) In some rare cases you need to solder an adapter that goes from a soldered joint to a threaded. Normally you want to solder it first, then thread it, but in some cases it must happen in the other order (e.g. the pipe is already installed; because it's unmovable you cannot spin it). In this case, I would assume hemp would be more tolerant to the heat than the teflon tape.
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Re: Is it okay to join some fittings with teflon tape?

Post by zapata »

I used ptfe tape on a 2" joint for years. Just wrap the male so it's a tight fit, and a few wraps over the outside. IMHO no need to fuss with another layer and hose clamps etc, unless the joint might be moved or wiggled. This was before we'd figured out triclamps, ss to cu soldering or easy flanges, and the only all copper fitting I could find to replace it would have been as expensive as the rest of the still.

But for a 15mm pipe? Come on, you're just being lazy. That's small enough that all copper unions should be readily available and affordable, right? Or do it really right and put a triclamp, DIN 11851, or whatever metric sanitary fitting standard is available wherever you are. Metric sanitary pipe DIN 15 has an ID of 16mm which should readily solder to your 15 mm OD copper. You get foolproof sealing, any angle rotation, foolproof disassembly maintenance and reassembly. For what $40? AND you get to practice a priceless skill. I say do yourself a favor and quit faffing around and do it right.
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