Distilling oils

[Ankh Watep]

I am distilling various plant material for making essential oils. These oils are not meant for human consumption or direct contact. They are going to become fragrance additives for aromatherapy products.
I am unconcerned with speed of distillation. If it takes all day, it takes all day. I am also unconcerned with purity. Water and oil seperate naturally. I simply need to remove the oils from the plant material and other various unwanted tars and oils that do not come over at 100C.

My big concern is reducing boiler pressure and losses from escaping vapors. I don't want the lid of my boiler blowing off sending scolding water all over me. At the same time, I don't want to spend an arm and a leg for some ultra high pressure pot still.
I tried the search function but did not come up with any results.
What is the recommended angle for the coils of a condenser?
At 100C, how big should my condenser coil be in relation to my boiler diameter to keep pressure near atmospheric?
Will I need a thumper tank?
Would a reflux column reduce boiler pressure ( on account of its large diameter and because it causes condensation of some of the vapors. )?

I am planning on using a turkey fryer as a boiler, what is a practical inexpensive way to secure a removable lid?
What is a good way to make an airtight seal? (keeping in mind this is not for human consumption)

[blind drunk]

Why do you think there'll be pressure build up? I just saw a still that was used for essential oils and it looked pretty simple. A short column and a stainless worm in a smallish worm bucket. I say small because the boiler was big. They ran stream through the boiler and the herbs sat in a stainless perforated basket. A glass container shaped like an upside down triangle caught the oil water mix. This glass container had a valve on the bottom that the operator would open it to let the water out after it separated and eventually he would let the oil out when there was enough of it. The fact that the catch container is glass made that easy. One more thing, it was a converted autoclave. Seemed perfect for the job. That's everything I know, good luck, bd.

[LWTCS]

At the same time, I don't want to spend an arm and a leg for some ultra high pressure pot still.

Did not realize there was such a thing. Stills are open systems. They are not pressure cookers as such.

Will your boiler medium be water? If so it would seem that an aluminum pressure cooker (literally) would be a good choice for your boiler as it will come with a seal and will be very easy to clean and reuse over the course of its service life.

You could hang a stainless "tea ball" with your botanicals on the under side of the column/lid conection.

8 Quart pressure cooker at Walmart for $38 (US).
Aluminum can also be very easily cut, drilled or the like.

another $20 to $30 in copper and a few more $ for a benz-o-matic propane rig and your building (pot stills) oil extraction rigs for shits and giggles.

[Dnderhead]

Or fiend a steamer basket to fit inside.

[astrangebrew]

If you are into Essential oils you will want to investigate the use of a Florentine flask after the condenser. It separates out the lighter oils from the heavier oils and the hydrosol.
Also check out a Soxhlet extractor – very cool bit of engineering.
Most of my info comes from the Compleat Distiller.

[Ankh Watep]

I know I read something about back-pressure caused by too shallow an angle for the condenser.
I also would assume that even at a small boil, going from a large diameter, like a stock pot, with only a small diameter outlet ( i'm thinking of using copper refridgerant tubing from lowes, its about a half centimeter in diameter) would cause significant pressure buildup.
I've also recently learned aluminum reacts with phenols in many oils.
I should also add that this is for small business applications and i'm looking to distill pounds of plant matter in a batch.
I've already got an idea of what I want for everything but the boiler. I want to use something cheap and big, like a metal trashcan.

[blind drunk]

I

f you are into Essential oils you will want to investigate the use of a Florentine flask after the condenser.

That's the glass container that those folks had; it has a name .

[Dnderhead]

Id say git bigger tubing for condenser, you can't have presser build up. or it wont condense. it will just blow everything out and you will have a steam
generator not a still.

[Ankh Watep]

Well at least we've established pressure can build up. Thank you for the solution. Doesn't coil angle and length also effect pressure?
I want to minimize the amount of vapor lost. What condenser design is best for that?

[LWTCS]

Well at least we've established pressure can build up.

Have we?
Likker stills are open systems.

You are so concerned with blowing your lid off and boiler pressure pressure loss. And then you want a cheap way to secure your lid......

Then, you don't care how long it takes to distill your oils in spite of the fact that energy/heat costs money.

I want to minimize the amount of vapor lost. What condenser design is best for that?

You came on this site expecting to be spoon fed subject matter that typically does not get discussed here.

Pressure build up................Ok but........
Likker stills are open systems.

I want to minimize the amount of vapor lost. What condenser design is best for that?

Hit the books.

[Ankh Watep]

I'm sorry if I offended or undermined you or anyone else with my comments. I'm attempting to start up a small business, the lack of time is very stressful. I do not have the time to learn everything I need to know to make a still through research. I need the help of the members of this forum.
I was a little unclear in my first post and I should have included more details . I need to fabricate cheaply and with minimal skill (I cant weld) a still that will allow me to steam distill as much plant matter as possible (it can take up to 3000pounds of plant material to make a single pound of oil). I've got about $200 left for this piece of equipment. Which is why I need to know all the rules of thumb about pressure. How big to make the condenser diameter, angle of the coils, length of condenser, common large objects that would make practical boilers, different ways of sealing a boiler.

[rad14701]

Ankh Watep, try Googling "distilling essential oils"... My take, from what I've read here, is that you need to do some research because it's your business that is at stake... We really don't deal with essential oil extraction here so we can't really spoon feed you what you need to know...

I wish you luck with your venture...

[LWTCS]

Sorry for being snarky.
For a moment I detected incomming so I felt compelled to reciprocate.

My apologies for my bad manners.

[HookLine]

Ankh Watep

Welcome.

We are happy help you where we can.

But gotta agree with Rad, there are different applications and methods of distillation, essential oils is one, fuel ethanol is another, beverage distillation yet another, etc. We only specialise in beverage distillation here. We are certainly not experts on essential oil extraction, which is a quite different process from fuel or beverage distillation.

Cheers
Hook

[blind drunk]

Ankh - try to find absinthe's steam system. It looks really cheap and cheaper if you don't use copper. Or try this link that another guy here posted (not sure who it was but I bookmarked it for future reference) -

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/easy-st ... tem-25974/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

There's also Pinto steam system and I think he uses a plastic "boiler." Search around.

It should be easy what you're trying to do, especially because it's not for drinking, I mean human consumption. All the best with your new venture. There's money in oil. A guy here steam distills medicinal mushrooms and I think he'll do pretty good with some distribution. Cheers, bd.

[blind drunk]

EDIT - you'll still have to sort out the lid and column and condenser with the steam systems I referred to. But it's a first step. How about those 45 gal blue barrels with the snap on lids? bd.

[schnell]

sounds like you want a solid-liquid extractor rather than a still...

the most famous is the soxhlet.

[rednose]

It's not very difficult to built a steam oil extractor, here is a sheme how it works.

essential oil extractor sheme

And here a sample if you have a steam generator (bigger proyects)

With steam generator

Here a foto of a simple oil extractor boiler.

Essential oil basket example

image001.jpg (10.1 KiB) Viewed 4338 times

You can use only Stainless steel or glass as the essences can be affected by copper.

For a small biz I would recommend a stainless steel pressure cocker with a SS basket (can be easily selfmade) inside.

Note that there is no pressure in all the system but it's safe to have an overpressure valve in case that any material gets in the tubes.

I can give more info shortly if required as I'm in an serious proyect, we have a Lime plantation and sometimes prices are down and it makes sense to convert the fruits in an extract which can be conserved more than 8 month and a liter has a value of more than 800USD.

Here is a site with some helpful info: http://www.essentialoils.co.za" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[kiwistiller]

I really really want that basket still...

[rednose]

My 170ltr boiler has a removeable 100ltr basket in it.

Extracting oils can be a good biz if you have quantity and market for it.

We estimate that we will need about 5000 limes for 1ltr of extract with 5 runs of 1.5 hours but sometimes the local market don't pay more than 25USD for 5000 fruits.

I really really want that basket still...