I happened upon some lovely 50 liter (13.2 gallon) SS pots used in Italy for the storage of olive oil that I'd like to use as a potstill & thumper. Before I start drilling holes into them and making a mess I figured it would be a good idea to ask some questions:
1. What about pressure build up? My old copper still head simply laid on top of the boiler. When on occasion the swan's head got clogged and pressure built up then the head popped off and made a nice mess to clean up. With the lid of these SS pots screwed in place I wonder what would happen. I suppose the thing that would pop would be the connection to the thumper (wheat paste), but I'd rather ask and hopefully avoid blowing up my house.
2. What about the potstill head height? I found a 54mm (2.1") wide copper "connector" to drill&weld into the lid, but it's only 8cm (3.1") tall. Should I get another 1-2 pieces to make this 54mm exit longer, or can I cap it with a 54-22mm (0.86") reducer (and from there a 90° angle, and on to the thumper)?
3. Unrelated: I'm pretty sure my residential electricity usage cap is at 3kW, so I'm thinking of getting a 2.4kW heating element I can use without causing a blackout. Does that make sense? Would it be strong enough?
4. Unrelated: does it make any sense (or is it seriously stupid) to do the fermentation already in the still pot?
What size of copper were you using on your old still? A pot still should NEVER build pressure, 1/2" is the smallest recommended here. The stainless pot looks good btw.
Moonshine.... American as apple pie & it's part of our heritage, history & culture.
You have 3kW cap on electricity? Can you turn on a light in more than 1 room at a time? Got a bread toaster? How do you boil eggs? 3kW seems incredibly low power.
The pots will work great...just don't have restrictions in the pot still head or product condenser, like firewater69 said. Keep the worm at least 1/2" (13mm) ID. If using a Liebig...same thing.
You shouldn't see pressure build up unless you get a puke. So make sure you clear the wash good.
And no, it doesn't make sense to ferment in your boiler. Getcha' a couple of HDPE plastic trash bins. they'll work for fermentation.
ss
The old copper still - an object of great beauty and little use - has a 12mm (0.47") pipe at the tip of the swan neck. The pot was small, I was stupid and over-filled it, the wash was murky, and voilà, a combination of stupidity had it that several times it got clogged with puke, built up pressure, and threw the hat off. If there's one thing I can count on is that I will keep on making mistakes as I'm learning, I'd just rather avoid the deadly kind.
So I'm basing my new still on pipes that eventually reach 16mm (0.62") going towards the thumper. (The Liebig is also a 16mm inside a 22mm.) And I'll be careful not to overfill the pot. And I'll be more careful about filtering the wash going in the pot. And I'll not use tight connectors, instead only having flour paste. But still, stupidity being a given factor, am I going to win the Darwin Awards?
I'd like to ask again about the "head" of the pot: what's the importance of the height and diameter of the "exit tube"? I've seen pictures of very tall necks used on pot stills, and I'm not sure what they're good for. The way I see it the sooner the vapors reach the thumper the better - less heat loss involved - but I'm probably missing out on something. (Maybe has to do with keeping down puke from blocking the tubes?). And then the diameter, what difference would it make if I use the 54mm piece (which reduces to 22mm) or instead make my life easier with a 22mm tube going straight in/out, like the thumper plan? (or maybe both should be 54mm?)
As for electricity, well, I'm not entirely sure how things are here in Italy. But I know that the current in my house has a tendency to black out when over loaded also with only-slightly-more-than-average use (say winter time, when both the electric kettle and a small electric space heater are turned on). My old operation (said 10L copper still) worked with a 2kW hotplate which took an hour for take off. I expect now to be working with washes 5 times bigger, but I'd rather not wait for 5 hours to take off. Hopefully with an immersion heater and insulation around the pot there will be less heat loss, and it's also 20% stronger, but having no experience I have no clue.
4. Unrelated: does it make any sense (or is it seriously stupid) to do the fermentation already in the still pot?
Some oldschool moonshiners would ferment in their "submarine" stills, that of course were done to spare them from external fermenters.They also just did one run..and that's it.
Those stills had a capacity way above what any hobbystiller runs. I wouldn't recommend fermenting in your little still. Do it in external fermenters, they don't cost a fortune.
Further you have the advantage of running a stripping run, collecting low wines and the do a spiritrun. So as you see, it's unpractible to ferment in your boiler.
As already mentioned...there should be NO pressure in any still.
Edit: If you use a Ø 54 mm for a riser, you should be fine. It doesn't have to be tall..a little one will do the job fine.
Then proceed with your Ø 22 mm pipe as planned. ( i assume you have a 54 to 22 reduction on as you described it?)
The Ø 22 mm , will do just fine for your thumper too.
Ciao mayimhaim, ha detto bene Danespirit, un distillatore non deve mai andare in pressione, è impensabile e pericoloso (fai conto che la pressione all'interno deve mantenersi alla stessa pressione di quella atmosferica, questo per darti l'idea delle condizioni di lavoro di un pot stil, è come far bollire dell'acqua in una pentola senza aver messo il coperchio), assolutamente, se questo avviene vuol dire che c'è qualcosa che non va, molto probabilmente in qualche punto si è creata una ostruzione, molto facilmente all'imbocco della colonna o alla fine dove va a instradarsi verso la serpentina o altro tipo di condensatore.
Non so tu, ma io faccio uso di termometri fissati tramite tappi di sughero, quindi, in caso di una qualsiasi anomalia il distillatore dovessere andare in pressione, nella peggiore delle ipotesi il tappo stesso farebbe il lavoro di una valvola, verrebbe sputato via.
Per dimensionare bene il diametro della colonna (2" oppure 1") va preso in considerazione il diametro della caldaia, è la superficie evaporante a determinare il diametro della colonna (poi inizia a restringersi per interfacciarla alla serpentina, come ti ha già detto anche Danespirit), per l'altezza invece, questa deve essere una tua scelta, che purezza intendi ottenere da questa colonna, in virtù di questo sceglierai l'altezza, io per esempi, utilizzo una colonna alta 45 cm dal diametro di 2". Non esiste rapporto diametro/altezza, fanno due lavori diversi distinti e separati, uno non è subordinato all'altro come lo è il diametro della caldaia con il diametro della colonna o, come può esserlo la potenza del bruciatore che è legata al diametro della caldaia.
Il mosto prima di metterlo nel distillatore va sempre filtrato, meno residui ci sono e meglio è, non si rischia di intasare la colonna (con il pericolo di esplosioni), e visto che, il più delle volte le nostre distillazioni sono a fuono diretto e non usiamo bagnomaria o vapore, non si rischia di bruciare le parti solide rovinando il risultato finale,
Per i KW, normalmente in casa noi ne abbiamo 3 KW, qualcuno 4,5KW e raramente (molto raramente) 6 KW, diaciamo che l'80% delle famiglie italiane ha 3KW di potenza elettrica. Ciao.
P.S.
Anche se è più pericoloso usare un fornello a gas, per via della fiamma libera (pericolo inesistente con una piastra elettrica), io personalmente preferisco usare il gas, è molto più facile da gestire, le regolazioni hanno una risposta più immediata e di comnseguenza è possibile regolarsi meglio sulla conduzione della distillazione.
Nu ved jeg ikke hvordan andre har det med italiensk...jeg er sku ikke god til det. Also wenn jetzt einer aus Italien..
OH, shit..sorry.
There are probably five or six people in here that understod the first sentence. A few more that understod the second.Common consensus is, we write in english.
There are fellow distillers from all over the world, so please FAROM..write in english so we all can participate.
If you want to write italian, you can do this in a PM to a fellow italian distiller.
Thank you..
FAROM - Translated to English using Google Translate wrote:
Hello mayimhaim, said good Danespirit, a distiller should never go under pressure, is unthinkable and dangerous (you do realize that the pressure inside must remain at the same pressure than atmospheric, this is to give you the idea of the working conditions of a pot stil, is how to boil water in a pot without putting the lid), absolutely, if this happens it means that there is something wrong, most likely at some point you have created a blockage, very easily the entrance of the column or at the end where it goes to instradarsi towards the coil or other type of capacitor.
Do not know about you, but I make use of thermometers attached using corks, therefore, in the case of any abnormality distillers dovessere go under pressure, in the worst case the cap would do the job of a valve, would spit on.
To size well diameter of the column (2 "or 1") should be considered the diameter of the boiler, is the evaporating surface to determine the diameter of the column (then begins to shrink to interface it to the coil, as you have already said too Danespirit ), for the height instead, this should be your choice, that purity mean get from this column, because of this you choose the height, I for example, use a column 45 cm high with a diameter of 2 ". There diameter / height ratio, do two different jobs distinct and separate, one is not subordinate to the other as is the diameter of the boiler with the diameter of the column or, as it can be the power of the burner which is linked to the diameter of the boiler.
The juice before putting in the distiller is always filtered, less residues there are, the better, is not likely to clog the column (with the danger of explosions), and because, more often than not our distillations are fuono direct and we do not use a double boiler or steam, do not risk burning the solids ruining the final result,
For KW, usually at home we do have 3 KW, someone 4,5kW and rarely (very rarely) 6 KW, diaciamo that 80% of Italian families has 3KW power supply. Hello.
P.S.
Although it is more dangerous to use a gas stove, because of the flame (non-existent danger with a heating pad), I personally prefer to use the gas, it is much easier to manage, adjustments have a more immediate response and is comnseguenza can better regulate the conduct of distillation.
If you plan to build a boiler/thumper combination, it's a good idea to design it in such a way as to be able to run it with or without the thumper. That is, make it as modular as possible.
The height of the riser coming out of the boiler is unimportant with a pot still. It just needs to be tall enough to provide an appropriate take off point for the condenser. If you plan to use a worm condenser (flake stand), the height of the riser can be fairly minimal. If you plan to use a liebig type condenser, it may need to be a bit longer so you can give the liebig a steeper angle and an appropriate takeoff point for the product.
I would advise against fermenting in the boiler. Solids in the wash increase the likelihood of scorching, puking, and clogging of the vapor path (boom).
Do some more research here before committing to permanently altering those nice pots. First thing a distiller should learn is patience.
Every new member should read this before doing anything else:
