Home Distiller

Posted: **Sun Aug 24, 2008 9:31 am**

Those percentages are meant more as a guide of the way things will end up not that you figure out so many percent of your run and cut it like that. Try using the search function on making cuts. There are people who can tell you better than I can. Aside from tossing foreshots out, 150-200ml on a pot still, cuts are made using your senses. Collect all your distillate in small quantities. Cover with a coffee filter or something similar and allow to air out overnight. The next day make the cuts by smell. Heads have a strong chemical smell, hearts will smell like the good stuff, the tails will start to smell funky and also may start to look hazy whitish. That's the very basic there's more ways to tell than that. Take your time with it. Read around on it. A search on it should yield all you want to know.

Posted: **Sun Aug 24, 2008 9:40 am**

I've read the literature [more thoroughly] now, and am getting a bit more up to speed with things. Remember tasting and smelling the first run I did and finding the perceptions you mentioned. Especially late-run when things turned 'oily' and I could see shimmers of oil [or something] floating down into the collector.

Cheers Hank.

- boingk

Posted: **Sun Aug 24, 2008 10:38 am**

There a many things to consider when figuring where your percentages are going to be.....here are some methods of calculating.

Take a 20 litre mash of 7.65% alcohol.

20,000 X .0765 = 1530ml @ 100%
then...
1530ml / .95 = 1610ml @ 95%

this is the formula....
(Vol mash in ml X % alc of mash) / .95 = Vol of 95% alc in the still

95% is the 'safe' assumption of the ABV you're going to get, which may not be the case. So you could
say that the calculation "corrects to" 95% alchohol.

Once you've got a figure for this....it becomes the basis of the calculations mentioned earlier. Please
pardon the crudeness of this table.

Foreshots Vol.(ml) = 50 ......... % of output - 3.1%
Heads Vol.(ml) = 280 .......... % of output - 17.4%
Middle-run Vol.(ml) = 920 .......... % of output - 57.1%
Tails Vol.(ml) = 135 .......... % of output - 8.4%
Lost Vol.(ml) = 225 .......... % of output - 14.0 %

This table is a from Smiley.....based on an actual run, this is not a hard
and fast rule, just calculations based on this specific run. Just a note, anytime you are dealing with the Smiley book, you're dealing with 6 gallon, or 20 liter runs, and all his stuff is based on that quantity in the book. This needs to be kept in mind when applying the principles of the Smiley book to other mashes and methods. The Smiley book is specifically targeted at making pure corn (i.e. all grain) mashes. Not talking about UJSM or anything with corn and sugar, or molasses or anything else.....just corn, barley, and yeast, which is a true corn whiskey. Anything else is not whiskey, it's Vodka, corn liquor, rum, or whatever else you prefer to call it, just not whiskey, whiskey is all grain. The alcohol yields are comparatively low (6-7 % in the test cases) compared to much higher with sugar washes. It's crucial to understand these differences.

The vast majority of distillers do not make cuts based on these calculations, they go by smell and
taste, it is the art and craft of what makes a distiller......Smiley is offering this type of information so you can get an idea of what to expect. I tried making these calculations on my first two or three mashes but it took my attention away from the actual distillation to make the calculations and tasting and testing the distillate is far more interesting and informative to learn the craft. If something is seriously messed up in your mash, your taste buds will tell you way before the math will. And....the math will never be able to approximate qualitative considerations.....quality is, again, part of the craft.

Posted: **Sat Feb 28, 2009 8:11 pm**

I've read this thread a hundred times and I'm still learning! Read a post...then read it again in a month and understand it much better...(am I just thick maybe)?

When I started, I read all I could and then smelled/tasted/put on back of hand/scrunched between fingers/lit on fire and watched beard, saw what was left in the spoon/on and on and on....

Then I said to heck with all that and collected in 500ml jars and aired over night. That works great and now I'm testing ABV as I go and leaving it in 500ml jars overnight. I collect down to about 25%-30%. (27% tonight) It still ends up being a smell/taste thing tomorrow, it's just that I'm getting way more product. Before I would stop when it tasted/smelled watery or stinky, now I collect by ABV and it comes out of the "stinky" part and I collect 3 or 4 more jars.

Posted: **Thu May 28, 2009 7:21 pm**

Dan Call wrote:That looks like at least a 3000 gallon capacity. If this Vendome unit is any indication, I think large scale pot stills do use thumpers/vapour boxes, just look at this. Maybe this is a double thumper setup for rum distillation. Caption for this one says...."3000 and 5000 gallon pot still." The second picture is of a rectification collumn, like with plates, 92 ft long 13 1/2 feet across. How's that for capacity??!!! This thing could easily run 8-10 thousand gallons per day of finished product. Note lower left corner there's a dude standing there for comparison. This is proof (no pun intended) that commercial distillers are concerned with "quantity over quality," and that's why the clever home distiller and the small batch craft distiller can produce vastly superior product. I have to confess though, if I were going to run a legal distillery, this pot still arrangement is very attractive and the capacity is not so incredibly large that you can't control the quality.

"Great posting Damian. Would that be a "making a living still"?" this is a quote from Rangitang on a post I have going on "novice: not another new distiller" This is a "making a living still mine" is infantile compared to this sort of set up. Damian

Posted: **Thu May 28, 2009 9:06 pm**

i collect DEEP into both the strip and the spirit runs.. but the real cloudy stinky stuff (30% and downish) goes into the next stripping run and all the other feints (part from the fore shots) goes into the next spirit run..

and i have always collected in 375 ml bottles and blended from there but i have never thought of just picking bottles with he flavor profiles i like..

i will try that on my next runs..

thanks pint

Posted: **Tue Jan 25, 2011 7:48 pm**

more great info thanks guys

Posted: **Wed Apr 27, 2011 9:55 am**

Dan Call wrote:
Foreshots Vol.(ml) = 50 ......... % of output - 3.1%
Heads Vol.(ml) = 280 .......... % of output - 17.4%
Middle-run Vol.(ml) = 920 .......... % of output - 57.1%
Tails Vol.(ml) = 135 .......... % of output - 8.4%
Lost Vol.(ml) = 225 .......... % of output - 14.0 %

Are the '% of output' numbers the same using an ULSM?
I would hope that there would be a higher percentage of Middle-run with an all sugar mash.

Posted: **Mon Jun 06, 2011 10:37 pm**

theholymackerel wrote:Strippin' Run: Run it fairly quickly. Collect EVERYTHIN', makin' no cuts till the output drops to 20% or less.

Spirit Run: Run it soft and slow. Collect and discard foreshots. (200 ml per 5 gallons of mash/wash with a potstill.) Run still slowly and steady. In a 15 gallon, or smaller potstill a good rate is a tiny stream... pencil lead sized. Make yer cuts based on smell and taste. Heads and tails can be saved or recycled. My cut from body to tails is often in the 40-50% abv range.

I wish ya luck.

So during the first run, Stripping, you would collect everything including the foreshots into one container, then collect and discard the foreshots on the spirit run?

Posted: **Tue Jun 07, 2011 4:35 am**

Zouth:

That's correct. You can dump the foreshots from both runs, or from just the spirit run.

Bull.

Posted: **Tue Jun 07, 2011 5:42 am**

I see. I think I would feel safer dumping from both runs. Great information. Into the old notebook it goes.

Posted: **Sun Jun 12, 2011 6:39 pm**

zouthernborne wrote:I see. I think I would feel safer dumping from both runs. Great information. Into the old notebook it goes.

This is interesting, I wondered about this when I started this whole game using the recipe the original owner left and nowhere does he suggest taking for-shots off during the first run.

Man I wish I could get a smaller set up to play with this stuff to learn and develop better skill's, you see I'm running an 800L boiler so you an imagine how much it cost's to fill the wash with sugar.

Posted: **Sun Jun 12, 2011 6:46 pm**

DamianRyan wrote:Man I wish I could get a smaller set up to play with this stuff to learn and develop better skill's,

You could always build one of our hobby size still to experiment with, there are plenty of plans here you could use.

OD

Posted: **Sun Jun 12, 2011 9:47 pm**

olddog wrote:
DamianRyan wrote:Man I wish I could get a smaller set up to play with this stuff to learn and develop better skill's,
You could always build one of our hobby size still to experiment with, there are plenty of plans here you could use.

OD

As soon as I get the money together that is what I'm going to do.

Posted: **Tue Aug 02, 2011 11:05 am**

DamianRyan wrote: you see I'm running an 800L boiler so you an imagine how much it cost's to fill the wash with sugar.

That's a hell of a good class of problem to have.

Posted: **Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:18 am**

Went to Woodford Reserve a few years ago.

They make single batch runs. Don't remember the exact volume, 24 barrels finished product I believe.

They triple distill. Using three different potstills. Pretty much one still into the next, into the next.

The master distiller makes cuts along the way. All of the final is mixed and cut to proof then put into barrels for aging.

Posted: **Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:33 am**

zouthernborne wrote:I see. I think I would feel safer dumping from both runs. Great information. Into the old notebook it goes.

Nothing wrong with that, but the foreshots are useful for burning, cleaning and ant killing and if you wait till the spirit run to collect, there's not near as much water in them. Ant killer is always good in this part of Texas.

Posted: **Mon Jun 25, 2012 3:03 pm**

How do you kill ants with foreshots? By setting them on fire?

Posted: **Mon Jun 25, 2012 3:11 pm**

RevSpaminator wrote:How do you kill ants with foreshots? By setting them on fire?

Just pour it on them and their hill.

Posted: **Sat Dec 15, 2012 8:15 am**

I'm not sure this is as much reply as it is statement/question. I run a 3 gallon pot with a domed lid that allows me to get a full still charge and I run a liebeg condenser and my set up works great for me.

I can run it inside stove top or outside with a burner from my turkey fryer.

I've been doing some UJSSM and am currently doing a spirit run of 3 runs of low wines generations 5-8 (should be quite tasty) . For my stripping runs I run pretty fast and collect everything except the first 300ml down to about 30
%. That may sound like an aggressive cut of fores but I really don't like the sting of early heads. For my spirit run I combine my low wines dilute down to slightly less than 40% and collect everything down to approx 30% again excluding the first 300ml as fores this again may be aggressive since I discard fores on my stripping runs but I find that it works for me. My spirit runs typically start at about 81%. I'm working on making cuts by taste(quite challenging)

think however I'm getting ok at it ,I had a shot of some store bought rum the other night and it is no where near as good as what I can now produce(thanks hookline and this forum). My current batch of UJSSM is going towards some apple pie and some good old white dog as gifts for friends minus some for me of course. Anyway I just wondered what all you pros out there thought of my procedure? Any advice is always welcome as I will keep brewing and keep learning I'm thinking there is a boka build in my future

Posted: **Wed Dec 26, 2012 4:38 pm**

theholymackerel wrote:Strippin' Run: Run it fairly quickly. Collect EVERYTHIN', makin' no cuts till the output drops to 20% or less.

Spirit Run: Run it soft and slow. Collect and discard foreshots. (200 ml per 5 gallons of mash/wash with a potstill.) Run still slowly and steady. In a 15 gallon, or smaller potstill a good rate is a tiny stream... pencil lead sized. Make yer cuts based on smell and taste. Heads and tails can be saved or recycled. My cut from body to tails is often in the 40-50% abv range.

I wish ya luck.

Posted: **Wed Dec 26, 2012 5:01 pm**

When you get down to the 40-50% range do you take all that you ran from 80% down to 40% and mix them together. I have been told that my "shine" is really good and smooth but I stop @ 70% and use the rest for tails. Am I doing right stopping @ 70% or should I go lower?

Thanks,

City Shiner

Posted: **Thu Dec 27, 2012 6:50 am**

I look for advise from you guys once and a while and really appreciate it. All I am asking is a simple ? ^^^^^^^ Please I need some help here.

Thanks,

City Shiner

Posted: **Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:11 am**

sizzlnchef 1 wrote:When you get down to the 40-50% range do you take all that you ran from 80% down to 40% and mix them together. I have been told that my "shine" is really good and smooth but I stop @ 70% and use the rest for tails. Am I doing right stopping @ 70% or should I go lower?

Thanks,

City Shiner

The correct answer is that you should collect everything in seperate jars and do your cuts to your liking after they air out for 24 to 48 hours. Then you do the cuts to how you like your drink. What you collect is what you like so it doesn't matter how far you cut down to it is what you like. Now, after you do several runs like this you are going to get an idea of about where you want to typically stop, that's your point of stopping and it will change slightly on every run because every run will have a different amount of fores, heads, hearts & tails but if your ferments are similar the runs will also be similar. That's what you want to do.

You might notice there is a lot of "you" and "your" in the above statement, that's because everyone likes their cuts different. Some like a little heads(no pun intended), others don't want a drop of heads, some like deep tails, some hate it. All depends on your tastes. Also remember, different washes have different amounts of fores, heads, hearts & tails so be mindful of what you are running and what it might contain so you don't start to calculate your cuts off precentages or head temperature or something like that.

Posted: **Thu Dec 27, 2012 3:21 pm**

TYVM!!

Posted: **Mon Feb 25, 2013 7:51 pm**

Sorry, folks, but I have a basic question on these stripping runs: After I run and get say one-third of my mash/wash stripped to include all heads, hearts, and tails; what do I re-add it to for the second run?
Do I add it to the mash it just came from?
Do I add it to a new mash/wash then expect twice the amount since it is now loaded twice?
Or do I add it to water or some semi neutral liquid?

Newbie question.

Posted: **Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:51 am**

Maybe you have already gotten your answer, as it is probably covered many times over in these forums. You will want to do multiple stripping runs as you have stated, collecting the heads hearts and tails. This is generally done for making whiskey.

Then when you have a full still charge of these stripped runs, you throw all of them back in the still and dilute if necessary down to around 40% ABV. You run this and make your cuts accordingly. This is usually called a spirit run.

I have a small still, so I usually do two stripping runs of 5-6 gallons of wash each. I usually get about 4 quarts output from each of these runs (heads hearts and tails combined). So, I end up putting these 2 gallons plus a tiny bit of water to make up lets say 2.5 gallons of 40% ABV for my spirit run. Some people also add in their feints from a previous spirit run, and some even add a little new wash to these spirit runs. It is all a matter of taste and experience. But, I think the first method of just diluting to 40% with water is the most common approach when just getting started.

From this spirit run, I will usually get about 2 quarts of 75% spirit. I generally dilute this down to 60% -62% for oak aging/flavoring and end up with about 2.5 quarts.

Posted: **Sun May 05, 2013 1:08 pm**

What I do is stripping runs ( Maybe 4-5 runs) and all the stuff from each run I collect And store in a corny keg (10gal) till i fill it up, then run a sprit run with the low wine striping run 45% or so stuff. Do not add it to your next mash as this will stop your yeast from working because of high alc.. Your yeast will stop working when it hits a magic number soil you add 25% acl. To your mash you stopped the process. So just save it till you can do a run with all the stuff you have. My still starts out about 130 proof and I collect down to 40 proof for my stripping runs so my 10 gals of low wines are around 80-90 proof for the sprit run (I make tenn whisk )

Posted: **Fri Nov 15, 2013 9:11 am**

Ok Im a newbie, when you run your rig full bore for a stripping run do you have the cooling coil on to regulate temp to 170 deg? Or do you have it off to collect everything and then when you make your final run you run the cooling coil?

Posted: **Fri Nov 15, 2013 3:03 pm**

Tinner
Stripping runs are generally just for pot stills, i.e., no reflux coil. And generally collect all of the strippings, except foreshots.

Home Distiller

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