Pot stilling questions
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Pot stilling questions
I have some questions about the last run that I have done with my pot still.
First I want to describe my set up. I’m running a keg pot still. It has a 28 inch stainless column topped with a 6 inch sight glass. I have inserted three rolls of copper packing just for the spirit runs. Attached to that is my Lyne arm reducing the 3” down to 1.5”. From there 3/4 copper down to 1/2 inch over 3/4 Liebig that is 36inches long. For power I have a 5500 watt 220 element and controller.
Now that you understand my set up, I want to talk about my runs.
I have done 7 ferments of UJSSM as of to date and stripped them as fast as possible. I have done one spirit run on the first couple of stripping runs and it went OK I made some mistakes and have learned from that process. On my second spirit run I used of two stripping runs and the feints from the first run. The ABV of the low wines was 35%. In total on the second run there was 6.5 gallons.
Here is where my questions arise. On the spirit run I heated the pot to 160 degrees measured in the pot. At that point I reduce the power to 15% until I removed 600 ml of foreshots. I then increased the power to 25% and started taking spirits off in a small stream. The spirit was coming off at 87 % ABV on it stayed there for a total of 3200 ml. At that point I removed another 3900 ml from 86-81 ABV. From that point on (80-60 ABV ) I removed 3200 ml. I was removing liquor at a rate of 4 liters an hour.
My questions are it seems the I have a very high ABV for a pot still. Also there seems to be a small portion of hearts compared to the heads. Am I getting some passive reflux causing the higher ABV? Looking at the sight glass I can see a cascade of fluid running down the sight glass. As I am trying to make primarily bourbon, am I loosing flavor with the high alcohol content. Are there any recommendations you can make to improve my result? should I not recycle the heads in the next run and just use the remaining tails. Thanks in advance for your help.
First I want to describe my set up. I’m running a keg pot still. It has a 28 inch stainless column topped with a 6 inch sight glass. I have inserted three rolls of copper packing just for the spirit runs. Attached to that is my Lyne arm reducing the 3” down to 1.5”. From there 3/4 copper down to 1/2 inch over 3/4 Liebig that is 36inches long. For power I have a 5500 watt 220 element and controller.
Now that you understand my set up, I want to talk about my runs.
I have done 7 ferments of UJSSM as of to date and stripped them as fast as possible. I have done one spirit run on the first couple of stripping runs and it went OK I made some mistakes and have learned from that process. On my second spirit run I used of two stripping runs and the feints from the first run. The ABV of the low wines was 35%. In total on the second run there was 6.5 gallons.
Here is where my questions arise. On the spirit run I heated the pot to 160 degrees measured in the pot. At that point I reduce the power to 15% until I removed 600 ml of foreshots. I then increased the power to 25% and started taking spirits off in a small stream. The spirit was coming off at 87 % ABV on it stayed there for a total of 3200 ml. At that point I removed another 3900 ml from 86-81 ABV. From that point on (80-60 ABV ) I removed 3200 ml. I was removing liquor at a rate of 4 liters an hour.
My questions are it seems the I have a very high ABV for a pot still. Also there seems to be a small portion of hearts compared to the heads. Am I getting some passive reflux causing the higher ABV? Looking at the sight glass I can see a cascade of fluid running down the sight glass. As I am trying to make primarily bourbon, am I loosing flavor with the high alcohol content. Are there any recommendations you can make to improve my result? should I not recycle the heads in the next run and just use the remaining tails. Thanks in advance for your help.
- Saltbush Bill
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Re: Pot stilling questions
Seeing as how your still is mostly stainless Id leave at least some of the copper mesh in there. The passive reflux you are seeing would be from the bend at the top and the tapered stainless section. 4L an hour is pushing a bit hard for a pot still in my opinion, I'm sure there will be others who disagree and have different ideas on take off rates.
Re: Pot stilling questions
Maybe I'm mistaken but running a 35%wash with a tall column packed with copper mesh I think 85%coming out sounds about what I'd expect. When I had a stainless column I put some copper in there too but I bet you're getting a bit of reflux for a pot still.
Re: Pot stilling questions
4 lph sounds not bad to me, even though you restrict down pretty tight. (had to add an opinion since SBB asked for some)
87 does sound impressively high. i just ran a 38% spirit run through 60" high two plates and some copper mesh (plates and mesh for copper's sake in a SS unit), no deflag and the distillate (post fores) ran a bit at 81 for heads and held nicely at 78% for the hearts.
fores less than 1%
heads 7%
Hearts 67%
tails 25%
of available alcohol
did you temp correct? slightly warm to the touch can skew the hydrometer by 10%
87 does sound impressively high. i just ran a 38% spirit run through 60" high two plates and some copper mesh (plates and mesh for copper's sake in a SS unit), no deflag and the distillate (post fores) ran a bit at 81 for heads and held nicely at 78% for the hearts.
fores less than 1%
heads 7%
Hearts 67%
tails 25%
of available alcohol
did you temp correct? slightly warm to the touch can skew the hydrometer by 10%
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Re: Pot stilling questions
Are you collecting in small containers to make your cuts? You should be. It'll make getting a handle on cut points a lot easierMidwest wrote: Here is where my questions arise. On the spirit run I heated the pot to 160 degrees measured in the pot. At that point I reduce the power to 15% until I removed 600 ml of foreshots. I then increased the power to 25% and started taking spirits off in a small stream. The spirit was coming off at 87 % ABV on it stayed there for a total of 3200 ml. At that point I removed another 3900 ml from 86-81 ABV. From that point on (80-60 ABV ) I removed 3200 ml. I was removing liquor at a rate of 4 liters an hour.
It also seems that you're basing your cuts on %ABV. You should be using your senses (taste/smell), not numbers. You can't drink those numbers.
4L/hr is ok for a stripping run, but a bit fast for a spirit run. Pencil lead thin stream is where you need to be.
Midwest wrote: My questions are it seems the I have a very high ABV for a pot still. Also there seems to be a small portion of hearts compared to the heads. Am I getting some passive reflux causing the higher ABV? (Most likely) Looking at the sight glass I can see a cascade of fluid running down the sight glass. As I am trying to make primarily bourbon, am I loosing flavor with the high alcohol content(Also a possibility). Are there any recommendations you can make to improve my result?(Maybe take a little packing out of the riser) should I not recycle the heads in the next run and just use the remaining tails(Nope. You gain nothing from adding the last runs crap back to your next pot still run. If you were going to follow up with a refulx column that would be a different story). Thanks in advance for your help.
Re: Pot stilling questions
I was taking the alcohol readings right off the still but the alcohol was coming off quite cool. I just double checked, as the jars are airing out, and the ABV is about two points lower at 85% about 67 degrees.
Re: Pot stilling questions
I’m collecting 200-300 ml at a time and will be basing cuts by taste but most say the hearts start in the 80% range so I was concerned I was getting so much at a higher level. I have almost 40 jars on the table!
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Re: Pot stilling questions
Yes, but most aren't starting out at 87% either. Your cuts should be based on what's in those jars.Midwest wrote:I’m collecting 200-300 ml at a time and will be basing cuts by taste but most say the hearts start in the 80% range so I was concerned I was getting so much at a higher level. I have almost 40 jars on the table!
Re: Pot stilling questions
Well tomorrow I should be able to get to the blending and cutting. Then I can really seem what the end result is. It makes sense not to put you feints into the next run. If it wasn’t good enough the first time are you really going to squeeze theaetnmuch more our of them? Why do some people advocate it? I’ve read some use head and tails. Some just the tails. I know it’s all about personal preference. Just don’t want to miss something here.
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Re: Pot stilling questions
There ya go.Midwest wrote:I know it’s all about personal preference.
There's still some good alcohol in the heads and tails, but to me, on a pot still you're just going to make that same cut and not really gain anything. A lot of people have a separate feints container and will re-run that through their reflux column to scrub out the last of the remaining good alcohol. That's what I do, but like you said, personal preference.
Re: Pot stilling questions
I think I’ll save then and run them when I get the reflux column done. Get some neutral out of them. For now I have one more ferment of ujssm going then I’ll have another spirit run of four strips, then it’s on to all grain. I just finished this weekend a steam injection wand and will build a simple manometer this week for pressure control. Getting excited to take on the challenge and see the flavor profile differences.
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- Saltbush Bill
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Re: Pot stilling questions
+1 In the end Numbers mean nothing , they are just useless information to clutter your head. Taste is what matters in the long term.BayouShine wrote:You should be using your senses (taste/smell), not numbers. You can't drink those numbers.
Watching a master distiller through a viewing window at a commercial distillery only a week ago, watched him walk past all the fancy gadgets , pull the top of the spirit safe and dip a finger in. I reckon that taste told him all he needed to know.
Because some people believe that after about 5 cycles the amount of feints you get never increases while at the same time they add more flavour. Scotch distilleries are one example of this, very little if anything gets thrown away from any run.Midwest wrote:It makes sense not to put you feints into the next run. If it wasn’t good enough the first time are you really going to squeeze theaetnmuch more our of them? Why do some people advocate it?
Ive recycled every drop of UJ feints Ive ever produced into the next UJ run, I dont think its made my UJ any worse, Ive yet to get any complaints anyway.
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Re: Pot stilling questions
I would have used the copper mesh for the stripping run and not the spirit run. You could run your pot still with just the sight glass as your riser (handy to check for puking) - that would reduce some of the passive reflux you got with the packed column. A properly packed 3" x 36" column would be sufficient for a reflux column still.
I agree that 4 litres per hour sounds pretty full on for a spirit run. There is nothing stopping you from re-running all that product in a spirit run again - great for practice.
You've now been able to taste detect the difference between heads and hearts use that knowledge to monitor your next spirit run. I do the finger-dip shake and suck taste test; that way I tell myself that I am not consuming too much. When the bitterness, taste and smell drop away you are definitely in to the hearts.
If you want a quick approximation of what heads "feels" like on the tongue (dryness and bitterness wise) try sucking the smallest smear of methylated (denatured) spirit on a finger tip
I agree that 4 litres per hour sounds pretty full on for a spirit run. There is nothing stopping you from re-running all that product in a spirit run again - great for practice.
You've now been able to taste detect the difference between heads and hearts use that knowledge to monitor your next spirit run. I do the finger-dip shake and suck taste test; that way I tell myself that I am not consuming too much. When the bitterness, taste and smell drop away you are definitely in to the hearts.
If you want a quick approximation of what heads "feels" like on the tongue (dryness and bitterness wise) try sucking the smallest smear of methylated (denatured) spirit on a finger tip
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50L Beer keg boiler, 2200W element
Modular 2" Pot Still
opinions are free and everybody has them, experience costs you time
50L Beer keg boiler, 2200W element
Modular 2" Pot Still
opinions are free and everybody has them, experience costs you time