Thumper Inlet Size

[Windswept]

Hi, is there any rule of thumb about the size of a thumper inlet pipe? I'm upgrading my boiler from 8-15 gallon, and I'm thinking about plumbing it 2" triclamp from the top of the 15 gallon into the electric element port at the bottom of the 8 gallon.

Is this insane?

[jonnys_spirit]

I'd think that you would want a piece with some holes in it similar to an air-stone effect reaching into the thumper such that it disperses the hot vapors as evenly as possible throughout the thumper charge. You can probably fashion an adapter to fit onto the 2" TC with a little creative soldering and some TC fittings.

The benefit of coming in from the top and having several inches of that hot submerged plumbing also heating the thumper charge is lost in this approach but not all is lost and there is still much hope.

Cheers!
-jonny

[Tummydoc]

You're going to fill your inlet pipe with whatever is in the thumper, to the level of the thumper charge. Thats going to increase the pressure required by the boiler to push steam into the thump. On cool down you'll create a heck of a vacuum if you dont have a valve plumbed in to break the vacuum. Also your design will limit your ability to distill grains/slop in the thump. I'd build a propper thump spear. My spear just ends (1 inch inlet pipe),no small holes because those risk clogging with grain. I use the thump to distill on the grain.

[Yummyrum]

and I'm thinking about plumbing it 2" triclamp from the top of the 15 gallon into the electric element port at the bottom of the 8 gallon.

It’s been done before . Version I remember used 1” ( I think) from boiler across and down through a 2” tri-clamp cap and did go across the bottom with holes in it .
It was used for steam stripping .
I recall that member mentioning that it was better to cover thump pipe with water /wash and then once it started to bubble , he’d pour the mash/trub in and close it up .

You're going to fill your inlet pipe with whatever is in the thumper, to the level of the thumper charge. Thats going to increase the pressure required by the boiler to push steam into the thump

How is it any different ? Whether the thump tube goes in from the top or in from the bottom , either way it has yo overcome the same pressure surely .

[shadylane]

Hi, is there any rule of thumb about the size of a thumper inlet pipe? I'm upgrading my boiler from 8-15 gallon, and I'm thinking about plumbing it 2" triclamp from the top of the 15 gallon into the electric element port at the bottom of the 8 gallon.

Is this insane?

You can, but if the thumper is higher than the boiler, some type of liquid trap will be needed.
With out a trap the thumper would drain into the boiler.
Most thumpers have the inlet coming in from the top for this reason

As to the minimum size for the tubing, I'd say 3/4"
1 inch would be even better
Mud daubers have been known to plug up 1/2"
Some folks will blow through all the tubing before each use

[shadylane]

Whether the thump tube goes in from the top or in from the bottom , either way it has yo overcome the same pressure .

+1

[Tummydoc]

I wasn't thinking of the pressure to overcome the height of fluid in the thump, i was thinking of the added resistance of grain/slop in the thumper inlet if horizontal for length leading to the old element port. I run pretty thick slop in my thumper. But maybe that is an insignificant factor.

[shadylane]

It might sound counter intuitive
I'm thinking it would be easier to blow bubbles up through a grain/slop
Than the same inches of water

[Twisted Brick]

The OP’s question got me thinking, but my limited knowledge of steam behavior emerged. Nonetheless,

we know that when steam condenses into hot water, it loses its energy, takes up much less space and exerts much less pressure. (I learned here that cold condenser coolant can do this to incoming ethanol vapor and the collapsing vapor can cause huffing). In a thumper, heat is lost over the length of an internal vertical stem, starting at the top of the liquid level and heating the surrounding liquid until it becomes hot enough to maintain the steam phase. In the meantime, hot liquid fills the thumper, not steam, and the thumper contents are heated from the top down.

Conversely, when vapor from the boiler enters through the (lower) side of the thumper, it would not lose its heat/energy along the way, releasing its energy into the bottom of the thumper in the form of steam (once the bottom stratum has been sufficiently heated). This analysis may be completely wrong, but it appears to be the more efficient way to heat a thumper since heat rises, and losing heat through a vertical thumper stem closer to the liquid surface would waste a fair amount of heat, not to mention take longer and introduce more liquid.

As such, it might be worthwhile to insulate a vertical thumper stem to reduce premature heat loss and maximize thumper efficiency. Regardless, according to Myles (one of our more respected, knowledgeable members) there are more dynamics involved with a side-entrance thumper spear:

viewtopic.php?f=16&t=39681

[The Baker]

Twisted Brick said, ' In a thumper, heat is lost over the length of an internal vertical stem, starting at the top of the liquid level and heating the surrounding liquid until it becomes hot enough to maintain the steam phase. In the meantime, hot liquid fills the thumper, not steam, and the thumper contents are heated from the top down.'

In a lot of cases, maybe most?? , hot vapour is released through holes in a horizontal tube at the bottom of the thumper.
Sometimes the tube is introduced through the side of the thumper, maybe more often via a tube introduced at the top.
So some heat would come from that tube, from the top to the bottom, but most through the vapour released from the holes in the horizontal tube.
So the thumper is then basically heated from the bottom.

Yes?

Geoff

[Windswept]

so, my thumper basically has three holes, one in the side at the bottom for an element, a drain in the bottom, and the exit at the top, wondering if I could turn it on it's side, run the steam in from an end and the exit from the element port on the side. might work even better if I put a piece of tube down from the inlet to the bottom of the thumper.

Some experimenting might be in order!

Thanks for the input

[Twisted Brick]

Sometimes the tube is introduced through the side of the thumper, maybe more often via a tube introduced at the top.
So some heat would come from that tube, from the top to the bottom, but most through the vapour released from the holes in the horizontal tube.
So the thumper is then basically heated from the bottom.

Yes?

Geoff

Agreed. What I should have considered was "what percentage of vapor condenses along the length of a 3/4" thumper stem until such time it heats up and no further condensation occurs?" Once the boiler begins to produce less ethanol and more water, is this not when most of the liquid gets transferred to the thumper?

[The Baker]

so, my thumper basically has three holes, one in the side at the bottom for an element, a drain in the bottom, and the exit at the top, wondering if I could turn it on it's side, run the steam in from an end and the exit from the element port on the side. might work even better if I put a piece of tube down from the inlet to the bottom of the thumper.

Some experimenting might be in order!

Thanks for the input

If the hole at the side is a triclamp (ferrule) fitting for the element:
you can leave the thumper upright.
Remove the element.
Take a blanking fitting for the ferrule, put a length of tube through the blank and weld it in if stainless the same as the thumper
(make a hole for it with a lathe or maybe a big drill)
and drill a lot of holes in the part of the tube inside the thumper and probably close the end.
and leave a stub on the outside to affix the vapour inlet,
possibly with a 90 degree bend loosely fitted and taped so you can adjust the angle of the inlet tube.

Have fun.

Geoff