Charentais style preheater with heads cutter

Simple pot still distillation and construction with or without a thumper.

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zapata
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Charentais style preheater with heads cutter

Post by zapata »

I noticed a detail in a still drawing I don't think I've seen or seen discussed. Found in the Cachaca section of the book Fermented Beverage Production. It's pretty clever. The classic Charentais preheater (at least as typically drawn) is a rather short tube sufficient for partial condensation and preheating the next charge. But there is more potential energy in distillate vapor than required for preheating the next charge. So with the right sized coil, you could "overheat" the preheat enough to pull a heads cut.

Check out the right side of the still on the right.
Cachaca stills 2 from FBP.png.png
Pretty neat trick. Especially neat for cachaca where some distillers make single run products. I know I shit on singlins just a few days ago, but I have had a good single run cachaca and a couple good singlin Haitian clairins. Funky, but good in that whatinthehellisthismadefrom-isitsafe-didatropicalpicklefishjustpeeinmymouth? kinda way...

It wasn't intuitive to me just how much heads could be run off. Initially the vapor is cooler than the preheating charge's boiling point (duh). But at some point that changes as the vapor weakens and heats up. Some rough, very rough guesses not accounting for realistic physics at all, so let's just assume a worm coil that captures all the latent heat and only check the sensible heat when the preheat charge would start boiling.

Energy to heat/preheat 10 gallons 10% wash from 70F to boiling: 3.6 kwh
Energy to condense the vapor (latent heat) when stripping 10g10% down to 20% distillate: 4.6 kwh
After 3.6 kwh (of stripping, so 7.2 kwh including initial charge heatup), the emerging vapor is at 208.5*F, so way hotter than the preheat charge initial bp (198.5) , confirms vapor can theoretically start boiling the next charge.

So the next 1kwh could produce 2.3 liters of 52% distillate from the preheat charge, that's 26% of the next charge's ethanol.
More than enough for those just wanting to do a fores/heads cut while stripping. Or even if it's saved as low wines, it represents not just a 100% savings on heatup energy and time for subsequent strips but a substantial reduction for the next strip itself since both charges will be stripping simultaneously roughly 20% of the time.

Another way to look at it is that you could strip as deep as you want without "wasting" any energy. The deeper you strip what's in the pot, the deeper you strip the preheat charge. Lets say you just kept going. If you strip 10 gallons of 10% for 8.2 kwh you will get 15.8 liters of 28.1% abv (down to 4% out the pipe!) AND the preheat charge will not just be preheated but also stripped down to the previous goal of 20% distillate, so an energy and time "free" additional low wines of 9.74 liters @ 39.1%. Combined that's a perfectly reasonable 25.5 liters @ 32.3% from 20 gallons of wash (yeah, I mix units, painted myself into a corner by starting with gallons!) IDK how realistic this scenario is, at some point the vapor and preheat temp will get close enough to severely reduce heat flow, but we also ignored the sensible heat from subcooling the distillate during preheating, so you might even be further along by this point?

Hell, a third scenario would be if you were ready to do a spirit run and also had a wash to strip. Strip in the pot, low wines in the preheater, and your entire spirit run is time/energy free compared to doing them separately. IDK, but the kwh are roughly feasible.

Personally I'm not chomping at the bit to build something like this right now. But if anybody has upgraded from a worm and flake stand this could be a cool project to repurpose them. I always thought worms are kinda dumb, but they are kinda neat if they make a 2nd still. Even if the above scenarios are beyond possible, they are a good first pass of considering ways to employ the trick. Maybe someone can make use of it.

(Paging NZChris, resident preheater evangelist who has probably been doing this for 30 years and telling us about it for 20. Is this a thing you have on yours? Is it typical on charentais even if it's not typical on drawings or highlighted in pictures? Does it have a name?)
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SaltyStaves
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Re: Charentais style preheater with heads cutter

Post by SaltyStaves »

You either need a condenser or a bypass (three-way valve) on the preheater, or it will be a potential bomb. I use a condenser as I'd rather take fores than have to bypass the preheater and have it start to cool before the main boiler strip is finished. The traditional Charentais' have a bypass. The French don't seem to want convection currents and they'd rather have the wine heated to distillation temperatures in the main boiler (Maillard probably?). I'd much rather have the production potential and 3-way valves are expensive...

In the short video in my preheater thread, you can see both condensers producing.
https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtop ... 5&start=30

Without that little expansion chamber and with insulation on the preheater, that distillate can pour out of the condenser and also much sooner in the run.
If I had more turns of the heater tube, I'd have even greater production potential, but its not something I want, as I'd optimally take a foreshot and then let the main boiler produce the rest of the strip where I get much greater copper contact.
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NZChris
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Re: Charentais style preheater with heads cutter

Post by NZChris »

I wouldn't use that drawing to build one, the worm isn't to scale.

It was my first addition to my pot still and was planned for from the start. Lagged, it will produce fores as long as the charge wasn't too cold to begin with. It usually produces fores and some low wines when I'm making rum straight out of a warm fermenter. Triple distilling, the preheater is producing more alcohol than the main pot towards the end of each strip.

The ferment I put down today will take seven runs to strip it. I wouldn't even consider doing that without my preheater.

I've also started spirit runs in the preheater when doing a strip.
zapata
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Re: Charentais style preheater with heads cutter

Post by zapata »

Nice link and rig salty!

And Chris, especially cool to hear about the strip/spirit combo, seems pretty versatile indeed.

I guess this is a known thing after all, I should pay more attention.
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