Thoughts on my build plan?

[Cake-tape]

This is all still in the design stage but I do have most of the materials already on hand or available nearby.

Ill be using all copper piping outside of the boiler, thumper and condenser which will each be steel, 20gal SS boiler, 5 gal bucket for my thumper with a ported lid, 55gal drum for condenser. My boiler is an old steam jacketed kettle from ‘51. I don't have a steam unit and I really don't want to mess with steam personally. Im going to fill the jacket full with a heat transfer fluid which is 50/50 glycol/glycerol or maybe a “Caldera” brand HTF.

Im using 3” L-type for my pot style column that steps down to 5/8” after the bend. Ill put in a flange and tri-clamp so that I can switch it out with a 3” borosilicate 4-bubble plate column.

I have a turkey fryer base hooked to LP for heat with a commercial deep-fryer’s thermostat and flow control valve to keep heat regulated. Ive attached a 4” tall steel ring to the top of the burner to concentrate heat. My condenser doesn't have a circulating pump at this stage in the design and Im not sure If I need one or not, if I need it Id set it up to cycle through a 35gal reservoir and maybe a radiator.

Id also like to use sealing sleeves at a couple different points in the vapor path so that I can break down to switch columns or to move the rig more quickly if needed.

Looking for comments/concerns my brothers. I will try to show a rough drawing If I can get it to work

[Bushman]

I can’t respond to the steam jacket but it sounds reasonable. For your condenser as you are recycling the water it may get warm towards the end of the run. You can get around this by having some 5 gallon buckets to remove warm water and replace it with cooler water. A better way if possible is have two garden hoses one hooked to the faucet to add water and the other to use as a siphon to remove the warm water. This does not need to be run continuously but as the water gets too warm.

[BlueSasquatch]

I would think a 55 gallon barrel for a flake-stand/worm-tube condenser would easily be enough volume, I've got a small one (too small) that I ran for 12 hours and the over-flow of keeping it with cooler water, didn't quite fill the 55 gallon barrel.

However would you be better with a smaller volume condenser, and using the barrel as a reservoir for the cooling water? I mean, we want a condenser to have a temperature gradient, from bottom to top, right? Having a 55 gallon drum, you're going to struggle to get much of any gradient across the barrel, until a long ways in, and then a hard time keeping the gradient temp you want, short of running a garden hose to the bottom and over-flowing it,(or sucking off the top), at which point you aren't much different from a smaller condenser, save the amount of time it takes to hit a temp gradient. But thats just my 2 cents, someone else will speak up that knows better.

Also did you say 5-gallon bucket for a thumper? You mean a steel thumper, right? What is your main goal of the thumper? 4:1 ratio in size (5 gallon / 20 gallon) seems on the small side.

And you're running a 3" column and after a 90/bend you're dropping to 5/8" that seems not-ideal? If you can, I'd run 3" all the way to the thumper, out the thumper and not step down until the condenser, even then I'd argue 5/8" may be a bit small there too, but perhaps not for a 55 gallon drum full of worm, how many feet of worm there?

[Twisted Brick]

And you're running a 3" column and after a 90/bend you're dropping to 5/8" that seems not-ideal? If you can, I'd run 3" all the way to the thumper, out the thumper and not step down until the condenser, even then I'd argue 5/8" may be a bit small there too, but perhaps not for a 55 gallon drum full of worm, how many feet of worm there?

+1

That's a lot of copper (bordering on recommended minimum size) committed to condense your precious distillate. Have you considered building a shotgun? A 3" still begs for the largest continuous vapor path you can provide including the condenser. A shotgun would prove a fair bit easier to maneuver for collection (and store) not to mention the increase in cooling area you'll want with the amount of power you're going to pump into your boiler.

[Cake-tape]

Yes, steel bucket for the thumper. Mostly want it for if I try my hand at infusions. Also for if the bubble plate column is prohibitively expensive.

Not sure how my feet of worm yet, I was thinking If I could fit 30-35 ft into the barrel Id be ok? Is a radiator with a fan an ok idea to keep a gradient? I like the idea of a smaller condenser with the 55 gal reservoir.

Ill absolutley look into a shotgun.

Would the stepping down after the bend be better if I put a 45/wye after the 90 then only down step down to 2 inch through the thumper? Is that more work than its worth?

[BlueSasquatch]

Not to plug my build thread, but you'll see it in my signature, Im building a 15 gallon keg still, 15 gallon thumper, with a condenser, and setting up from the start with a water pump + 55 gallon reservoir and a car condenser for the cooling water, with a fan blowing over it. I'll have temp sensors set up on all the water stages, so after a few sessions, should get a good indication if the car condenser w/fan is doing it's job.

Worm Tube is iconic for it's looks, but there are many better condensers out there these days, shotgun is a popular one, compact, low water usage, can handle most of what anyone throws at it, if sized correctly. You could probably use the 35 gal as a res with that.

Again, someone correct me if Im spouting off bullshit here, but a Car Radiator is different than a Car Condenser, they look the same but one (radiator) is for cooling your engine, while the car condenser is part of your air conditioning, and more suited to cooling the water that is used in the product condenser. The radiator sits in front of the car, behind the grill, and the condenser is usually located behind the radiator. Anyways this won't do anything for your temperature gradient IN the product condenser, the purpose is to cool down your already used-water after it leaves your product condenser, which in theory will allow you to work with a smaller reservoir.

Why are you coming off the boiler with a 3"? You could probably just run the whole thing with 2" if you wanted, unless you have expansion plans. Where-ever you decide to transition from 3" to a smaller size, is a good place for a sanitary flange/disconnect, so that you can upgrade/modify in the future and re-use as much as possible.

You may be best suited to put in a flange at the top of your 3" column, before you 90 and step down or before any other fitting, making a tall "spool-piece"

Oh and Stainless Steel for the thumper or just steel? your thumper will come into contact with alcohol vapors, which is why plastic bucket would be disastrous.

[Setsumi]

for a product condenser look at a Liebig cooler. if you have the skills and want to run a plater build a shotgun condenser or buy one with the plater. myself would rather up size the cooling water reservoir than fidle around with radiators. but it has been done, myself found it just another distraction that i had to manage.

[stillanoob]

Worm Tube is iconic for it's looks, but there are many better condensers out there these days, shotgun is a popular one, compact, low water usage, can handle most of what anyone throws at it, if sized correctly. You could probably use the 35 gal as a res with that.

Why do you say that? I have a 15 gallon flake stand and worm. On a strip run 15 gallons is all I use and I have 15 gallons of nice hot water to clean up with. It can handle my 12 gallon still however hard I drive it. No running water needed, no adjusting of flow rates. Simple and effective. What is better about a shotgun?

[still_stirrin]

… What is better about a shotgun?

Mobility?

[BlueSasquatch]

Worm Tube is iconic for it's looks, but there are many better condensers out there these days, shotgun is a popular one, compact, low water usage, can handle most of what anyone throws at it, if sized correctly. You could probably use the 35 gal as a res with that.

Why do you say that? I have a 15 gallon flake stand and worm. On a strip run 15 gallons is all I use and I have 15 gallons of nice hot water to clean up with. It can handle my 12 gallon still however hard I drive it. No running water needed, no adjusting of flow rates. Simple and effective. What is better about a shotgun?

My flake stand is sized on the small side, so I have to feed it water about 1/2 through the first run, sounds like yours is sized well for a single run. I've also done 12 hours worth of runs back to back, If I do that again, I'd rather have a different condenser.

[Cake-tape]

So update, thanks for all the replies, Im more than likely gonna go with a shotgun but at somepoint Im gonna do a worm build because yeah, its old school and iconic.

I was going with 3” originally because it was going to be free pipe that was sitting around at my buddy’s work but Im starting to think about just buying 10ft of 2” and then not having to step down anywhere at all and also the places near me that sell 3” fittings won't sell to individuals, so it’d be easier/cheaper to get fittings.
Im thinking a 2” shotgun build with either six 1/2” tubes or 4 3/4 tubes? And making the endcaps and maybe 3-4 inner baffles With 22oz sheet. Ive also been looking around and saw a 2” shotgun from Olympic distillers for a decent price, has anyone bought from them before?

[stillanoob]

… What is better about a shotgun?

Mobility?

Good point. I don't move my still around and so the worm works for me. Another downside of the worm is I need to rinse and then dry it inside so I don't get any blue build up. Overall though I love my worm, it will knock down any amount of vapor and always works, dirt simple and easy to make.

My flake stand is sized on the small side, so I have to feed it water about 1/2 through the first run, sounds like yours is sized well for a single run. I've also done 12 hours worth of runs back to back, If I do that again, I'd rather have a different condenser.

Yeah, when I run all day I do have to add water. But any style of condenser requires that. With a shotgun you either have to waste water (not an option in my drought stricken area, I am on a well) or use a pump to recirculate. I'd rather not have a pump involved, one more thing to break right when you need it. To each their own, I just don't think you can say a shotgun is better than a worm for a pot still.

[S-Cackalacky]

Just a few recommendations based on your original post:

Nix the flake stand. It's large, cumbersome, difficult to store, and has the potential of funky water syndrome. Look at other options. As others have said, a shotgun would be ideal if you have the skills to build one, or buy it.

The 5 gallon thumper is way small. Think about a 50 or 60 L beer keg. There's a design documented here on the forum that will allow you to use one port for both input and output, which greatly simplifies the build - simple triclamp connection.

Keep modularity in mind. Use triclamps for connections. This will give you the ability to change the design of your still on-the-fly.

Include boiler and thumper fill ports and drains. This will become extremely important when you want to do several stripping runs in a row.

Good luck with it and stay safe.

[The Baker]

With a shotgun you either have to waste water (not an option in my drought stricken area,
I am on a well) or use a pump to recirculate.

If you have any plants that need water you can direct your used cooling water to them (from any condenser).
My Davies condenser (inner and outer water tubes and one for vapour) has a movable hose to the lawn and Mrs. Baker's plants...

Geoff

[Setsumi]

With a shotgun you either have to waste water (not an option in my drought stricken area,
I am on a well) or use a pump to recirculate.

If you have any plants that need water you can direct your used cooling water to them (from any condenser).
My Davies condenser (inner and outer water tubes and one for vapour) has a movable hose to the lawn and Mrs. Baker's plants...

Geoff

my late FIL said every man kisses his wife his own way. i am with you Geoff, simple solutions make for better days... i circulate cooling water with a pump... and only run if we have electricity... yip i live on the southern tip of the dark continent.

[stillanoob]

With a shotgun you either have to waste water (not an option in my drought stricken area,
I am on a well) or use a pump to recirculate.

If you have any plants that need water you can direct your used cooling water to them (from any condenser).
My Davies condenser (inner and outer water tubes and one for vapour) has a movable hose to the lawn and Mrs. Baker's plants...

Geoff

Definitely an option. Personally I don't want to have to remember to move the hose around and it would take some long hoses at my place to reach enough things that need water, the garden is too far away from the shed. There is already enough to keep track of on still day anyway. I'd actually love to build a different style of condenser, I like building with copper and it would be fun. But my worm just works so well, is so simple and cheap to build. I am not saying that the worm is the one and only best for a pot still but it seems that folks consider it to be inferior and I don't agree with that.

[quote=S-Cackalacky post_id=7673722 time=1625152308 user_id=4426
Nix the flake stand. It's large, cumbersome, difficult to store, and has the potential of funky water syndrome.
[/quote]

What is funky water syndrome? And how would it affect the spirits being produced?

[Twisted Brick]

I was going with 3” originally because it was going to be free pipe that was sitting around at my buddy’s work but Im starting to think about just buying 10ft of 2” and then not having to step down anywhere at all and also the places near me that sell 3” fittings won't sell to individuals, so it’d be easier/cheaper to get fittings.
Im thinking a 2” shotgun build with either six 1/2” tubes or 4 3/4 tubes? And making the endcaps and maybe 3-4 inner baffles With 22oz sheet. Ive also been looking around and saw a 2” shotgun from Olympic distillers for a decent price, has anyone bought from them before?

You might want to review the design parameters of building your shotty. 3/4" vapor tubes don't scale well in a 2" shell (max: 3 leaves insufficient room for coolant) and the incremental benefit of stuffing more than 4 smaller diameter tubes into a 2" shell is negligible. Regarding efficiency, a member recently reported that he built a 4 x 1/2" x 20" OAL shotgun that he could not overpower with 100k btu's. Sure, it was just a test, but the headroom validates the lack of need for more cooling area.

If you buy one from Olympic Distillers, were you looking at the stainless or their copper shotty?

BTW, not sure where you are, but in the states there are a number of suppliers that offer 3" tri-clamp fittings for not a lot of money.

Twisted Brick

[Deplorable]

6 feet of 2 inch copper pipe, a T, a 90, and a 2" to 1/2 inch reducer, 86 inches of 1/2 inch copper, and a reflux coil make from 10 feet of 1/4 inch soft copper tubing. A few tri clamps and SS ferrules, some proper solder and liquid flux, and you'll have a righteous still head to clamp on a converted keg or milk can boiler. You will not overpower that shotty on any stripping run. I promise.

… What is better about a shotgun?

Storage

[RC Al]

I have a turkey fryer base hooked to LP for heat with a commercial deep-fryer’s thermostat and flow control valve to keep heat regulated. Ive attached a 4” tall steel ring to the top of the burner to concentrate heat.

You dont need to regulate the tempratue for distilling. Mashing yes, stilling no, you adjust power to hit an output rate at the other end, not try to hit a particular tempratue in the boiler. (Unless im wrong about your thermostat and it sits somewhere above the flame, not inside the fryer/boiler as im assuming)

[stillanoob]

… What is better about a shotgun?

Storage

Ya got me there, no doubt.