Tools needed to build

Simple pot still distillation and construction with or without a thumper.

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Ben
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Re: Tools needed to build

Post by Ben »

NormandieStill wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 1:57 am
shadylane wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 1:10 am Thank heavens kegs and 2" tri-clamps match, I'm sure it was an accident. But it worked out for homedistillers. :thumbup:
As to the question of "what tools needed to build", many of us here think more about, what tools we can justify. :lol:
Hit the nail on the head there. I cannot yet "justify" the purchase of a TIG welder... it'll come... one day I'll find the "reason" that I "need" to get one...
This is the reason...
0905211241_HDR.jpg

And this
0901211122.jpg
What more do you need???
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Re: Tools needed to build

Post by NormandieStill »

Ben wrote: Sat Jan 22, 2022 9:24 am What more do you need???
About a month's salary!

I've got a nice oxy-gas rig that lets me solder stainless and I'm going to investigate a guy in a nearby town who offers TIG welding. But it's really not common here. I'm not sure what prices are like in the states, but a real TIG rig (not an inverter that does scratch TIG if you can bodge up an argon bottle connection) will cost me upwards of €500 second hand assuming I drive to the other end of the country, and then I have to get a bottle of argon.

It will happen at some point, but not for a good while I think.
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Ben
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Re: Tools needed to build

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They aren't cheap, I paid a little over $2k for my current Lincoln :( but if you use it, and enjoy it, it is a great piece of equipment.
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Saltbush Bill
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Re: Tools needed to build

Post by Saltbush Bill »

The original question was .....Quote "I'm wondering what the basic tools needed for building a still are."
TIG welders are not in the basic tools category imo..................lets get back on topic folks.
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Ben
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Re: Tools needed to build

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Saltbush Bill wrote: Sun Jan 23, 2022 1:38 pm The original question was .....Quote "I'm wondering what the basic tools needed for building a still are."
TIG welders are not in the basic tools category imo..................lets get back on topic folks.
How do you know someone close to her doesn't have a tig welder. I would let any friend use mine and help teach them the skills required. If you have access to one it is the tool. A lot of people don't know you can weld copper, and tig copper to stainless. Lets put out the information.
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Re: Tools needed to build

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I've been reading through a few of the build/photo threads, and came across the "micro still" idea. I'm considering making a tiny simple still out of a 1.5 litre copper jug and a copper worm condenser, mainly as practice for the technical work. Any reason this would be a silly idea? The way I see it, the supplies needed for a bigger still with liebeg are probably going to take me some more time to aquire and if I'm gonna spend the money and build a big contraption, I don't want to do a half-assed job. I don't mind the tiny batches, I do most of my cider and wine making in gallon demijohns anyway.

I didn't mind the TIG talk either, I curiously ventured off to find out what on earth that is and spent a happy hour or so reading about it and whatever else popped up on that Wikipedia rabbit hole :) I have a couple of friends who do welding and blacksmithing, though probably not TIG welding.
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Re: Tools needed to build

Post by EricTheRed »

I wouldn't go smaller than 5L - that gives about 450-500ml hearts at around 60% - so a 750Ml bottle (no stripping runs - with -- more)
Anything smaller is going to be a painful process
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Re: Tools needed to build

Post by MoonPenguin »

Fair enough, I'll think about a 5l pot to begin with. The whole process is probably an awful lot of work for just a tiny bottle of spirit at the end.

But then I'll be telling myself, sure, might as well go bigger than that! I'll go pot shopping and see what I can come up with.
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Re: Tools needed to build

Post by MoonPenguin »

Hmm, a length of copper long enough to make a decent size worm would probably be as much as the copper needed for a liebeg, and if I'm going to make that and fit it to a saucepan lid I may as well spend an extra £15 for the 20 litre pot.

In this case would 28mm copper be enough for the riser (if that's what you call the sticky-up part that goes up from the pot lid) or maybe 38mm? I figure I maybe don't need 2" since its not a keg or similarly large boiler. Or is there another advantage to a 2" width?
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Re: Tools needed to build

Post by jonnys_spirit »

A small still is quite useful for macerated and small batch. I have a 10l / 2.5g small batch alembic still that’s perfect for macerated runs and can get about 1/2 gallon of hearts out of it when I charge it with low wines.

Put some thought into you larger smaller size and how you’ll heat em so the batch sizes work well together maybe?

I’ve got a couple copper pipe cutters, wire brushes, emery cloth, deburring tool, files, typical propane and map torches, stay brite silver solder and stay clean liquid flux. I think i can pit together most anything needed if I take my time. I use a chop saw with fiber disc to cut larger pipe but I purchased my kit but still fab a few things here and there as needed.

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Ben
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Re: Tools needed to build

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MoonPenguin wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 6:26 am Hmm, a length of copper long enough to make a decent size worm would probably be as much as the copper needed for a liebeg, and if I'm going to make that and fit it to a saucepan lid I may as well spend an extra £15 for the 20 litre pot.

In this case would 28mm copper be enough for the riser (if that's what you call the sticky-up part that goes up from the pot lid) or maybe 38mm? I figure I maybe don't need 2" since its not a keg or similarly large boiler. Or is there another advantage to a 2" width?
There is a relationship between heat input and tube diameter. Remember we want the vapor to travel slowly, by taking a quick look at Bernoulli equation we see the smaller the tube the faster the vapor flow (think of a tea kettle with a small spout or a whistler when it starts blowing off, vs a big pot boiling). You can also look at the ideal gas law (PV=nRT) and see that as the gas cools it gets smaller. So the condenser can be (relatively) small diameter and still work fine. The general answer is: the larger the riser the better, then it can neck down to the condenser. There is a lot written on this site about this, look at the pot design page: viewforum.php?f=16 the build page: viewforum.php?f=50 for a start.

You can oversize your Liebig if you think you will go bigger later, it won't hurt anything for it to be too big, just have to remember it will effect your riser height. The taller the riser, the larger diameter you wan tit to be, it will be stronger and and more stable.

Having a REALLY big head or riser can be a problem when you are lacking in power though, it may lose so much heat to the air you can't put enough power to it to take off. Can always insulate it, but better to build the right size in the first place.

Petition your welder friends and see if any of them can do stainless, it would be really handy for you to have a tri-clamp fitting welded on top of your pot.
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Re: Tools needed to build

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I think a lot of people either have never been on a tight budget or have forgotten what it was like starting out on one. I am a cheap bastard, My budget is usually whatever loose change I have and whatever I can scrounge. although I am very good at scrounging.

I started out on a 3 gallon pot that we use for regular cooking. I got a lid from a thrift store, soldered a connector to the lid, made a flake stand and did my first stilling. I ran it on the stove top and it was fine for beginning even though the stream may not have been completely consistent it didn't vary that much. It actually made some very good brandy. Once I knew I wanted to continue I upgraded to a 4 gallon thrift store pot that happened to fit the lid I already had, I soldered a copper fitting for an element to the pot, fabricated a liebig out of scrap copper (because flake stands suck) and built a controller. Eventually I moved on to a 15 gallon keg because in addition to being a cheap bastard I'm slightly lazy and it's simply easier to do one large batch as opposed to many small batches. Necessity may be the mother of invention but laziness is the father. I have also made and used a 1.5 liter pot still that actually worked well for gin but would suck to try to do any significant distilling from something less than 20% ABV.

I had less than $15 in my first still and it worked fine, although it was a lot of work to make a significant amount.

What I needed for my first still was
1/2 inch pipe and a few 90 degree fittings and a blanking cap which was soldered onto the lid.
3/4 inch pipe long nough to make a jacket for the liebig.
2ea 1/2" x 3/4" x 3/4" copper tee fittings.
some flexible hose (pieces of garden hose)
some hose clamps
a cheap pond pump ( I had one but the one I currently use was less than $20 and has been abused for years and still works)
a couple rolls of PTFE tape ( plumber's thread tape)
1 roll of lead free solder
flux for the solder
This a crappy cheap propane plumbers torch that I've had for a very long time. (https://www.bernzomatic.com/Products/Ha ... ion/WK2201 ) Yes a better torch is easier to use but I make mine work and it works just fine and was the cheapest torch you can find. I've done all my soldering and annealing with this torch.

Something to cut the copper pipe with. I have pipe cutters but could do it with any number of saws, such as hack saw, saber saw, band saw, reciprocating saw or even a file, it all depends on what you have to work with and how much work your willing to do Vs how much you are willing to pay to make cuts. I would think a husband with woodworking tools could easily find a way to cut copper pipe, but maybe I shouldn't be thinking.

As far as I'm concerned that's it, that is the basic things absolutely needed to make a still but being a cheap bastard I find ways to make due. If your cheap you often have to be inventive.

Notice I didn't mention the stuff for a flake stand. That is because they suck, they are as expensive to make as a liebig and are hard to wind in a way to keep them going downhill so they tend to have low spots that can not only effect the way the still runs but also make them prone to corrosion and thus contaminating the likker you have worked so had to make. so I don't recommend using one.

I still have that 4 gallon pot it's actually a convenient size to be used in conjunction with the 15 gallon pot but I have made one significant upgrade. I upgraded it to 1.5" pipe. Why 1.5 and not 2? because it is about 1/3rd the price and works just fine for a pot still.

The reason to go with larger diameter is vapor speed and if it tried to puke it won't be as much of a problem.
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Re: Tools needed to build

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cranky wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 9:42 pm I think a lot of people either have never been on a tight budget or have forgotten what it was like starting out on one.
cranky wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 9:42 pm As far as I'm concerned that's it, that is the basic things absolutely needed to make a still but being a cheap bastard I find ways to make due. If your cheap you often have to be inventive.
:thumbup: :thumbup: Excellent post Cranky, people seem to have forgotten how to get into this hobby cheaply.......Is it the "must have now" ..."instant gratification" thing taking hold that we see so often in other parts of life these days ?
I cant believe what some people spend on a boiler alone before they even run for the first time.......every conceivable bell and whistle.....it really doesnt need to be that way for a beginner.
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Re: Tools needed to build

Post by MoonPenguin »

Thank you Ben and Cranky. your replies were very helpful, and excellent to read. It hadn't occurred to me that a smaller diameter pipe would increase vapour speed. I'm enjoying reading through the posts on those links, and will mention the tri-clamp fitting to the welder guy I know.

That "shopping list" is great also, and I think I would much prefer the liebeg over the worm too. The worm looks more straightforward but I get what you're saying about the "downhill" aspect of it, and having to make a flakestand then I may as well put that effort into a better piece of equipment instead.

I'd like to do this first project cheaply as possible, mainly as I've never done any metalwork before and almost all of this is new to me! I didn't want to spend a fortune on equipment and supplies, produce the equivalent of Homer Simpson's DIY BBQ, then give up on the whole idea of the hobby. I'm happy to buy things like propane torches and pipe cutters as they're fairly inexpensive. Knowing I don't need to be an actual welder is a relief, I'm sure with a bit of practice I can solder some things together. Many of the stills I've seen on here look incredible, clearly the result of a great deal of knowledge and skill and look as though they could supply a small army with their whiskey rations :lol: For now I would just like something that can make a bottle or two of alky, and fit into/on top of a kitchen cupboard when not in use. Hubby might even enjoy helping with the build, and the excuses to add to his tool collection.
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Re: Tools needed to build

Post by NormandieStill »

Ikea do some nice stainless cookpots with stainless lids for not a lot of money. I'm probably going to pick up their 10 / 15L one soon to fill the gap between the 30L keg and the 5L gin still. I'll solder a tri-clamp to the lid and everything above that remains the same for each still. I have a set of stainless of tri-clamp fittings which include a 100mm spool tube, a tee and an elbow (which connects to my liebig and lets me adjust the angle). The tee is capped with a blanking plate. By removing the blanking plate, sticking a column under the tee and putting the spool tube over it, it becomes a CCVM. You can save costs slightly by replacing the tee with another elbow, at the cost of spending a bit more later if you decide to make a reflux head.

If you don't want to solder stainless then the options get a bit more limited.
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Re: Tools needed to build

Post by MoonPenguin »

I had been searching ebay for supplies. Checked out a local DIY chainstore and it's waaay cheaper for copper and fittings, with the advantage that I'll be able to handle the goods first, so this may not even work out as costly as I'd first thought, yay

Might this part be of any use in a still? It is a copper bendy pipe, 15mm x 300mm, only 74p
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Re: Tools needed to build

Post by Sporacle »

1_20211130_155615.jpg
MoonPenguin wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 2:03 am I've been reading through a few of the build/photo threads, and came across the "micro still" idea. I'm considering making a tiny simple still out of a 1.5 litre copper jug and a copper worm condenser, mainly as practice for the technical work
Micro stills are a lot of fun, they give you really good building experience. I would say that I use mine a lot more for maceration experiments than anything else though. This was my second still after my 2 inch pot :thumbup:
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Re: Tools needed to build

Post by RC Al »

The bendy pipe looks like its lined with plastic, so it would make a nice blingy line for coolant water, but forget about it anywhere near vapour.

Get something small happening, but keep up a regular search for a keg at the right price, they are not a hard thing to sell if you chane your mind.

I started with a 5L reflux that was much closer to a pot still and learnt heaps, but jumping up to the 50l keg boiler made the time spent watching drips seem much more worthwhile.
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Re: Tools needed to build

Post by MoonPenguin »

RC Al wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 4:30 am The bendy pipe looks like its lined with plastic, so it would make a nice blingy line for coolant water, but forget about it anywhere near vapour.

Get something small happening, but keep up a regular search for a keg at the right price, they are not a hard thing to sell if you chane your mind.

I started with a 5L reflux that was much closer to a pot still and learnt heaps, but jumping up to the 50l keg boiler made the time spent watching drips seem much more worthwhile.
I wondered what the plastic bits were for, I thought they might be end caps that come off! But yes you could be right in that it is plastic-lined, and not very useful in a still.
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Re: Tools needed to build

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Sporacle wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 2:12 am 1_20211130_155615.jpg
MoonPenguin wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 2:03 am I've been reading through a few of the build/photo threads, and came across the "micro still" idea. I'm considering making a tiny simple still out of a 1.5 litre copper jug and a copper worm condenser, mainly as practice for the technical work
Micro stills are a lot of fun, they give you really good building experience. I would say that I use mine a lot more for maceration experiments than anything else though. This was my second still after my 2 inch pot :thumbup:

That is neat! and kinda what I had in mind, but I think I'll go with a 15-20 litre size as the boiler cost doesn't seem to vary too much. I'll keep an eye out in thrift shops for cheap pots too.
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Re: Tools needed to build

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This is my pot column set up on my keg, I use the same setup with the 4 gallon pot but don't have a picture of it on this computer
image.png
image.png (120.78 KiB) Viewed 831 times
If you look closely you can see it uses a short length of 1.5" pipe, although I also have an extension if I need to make it longer, a 1.5" 90 coupling , a 1.5 to 3/4" reducer a short length of 3/4 pipe, a 3/4 to 1/2" reducer, a 1/2" 45 coupling that might be better as a 90, than the liebig. All fittings are only soldered on one side and are slip jointed together with a few wraps of PTFE tape. Some people will probably try to jump all over me for slip joints but I do have some loops soldered on at critical joints so I can wire everything together once assembled but it comes apart and stores easily when not in use.

I don't have a picture of my original before moving up to 1.5" pipe but it was very close to this one
image.png
image.png (140.43 KiB) Viewed 831 times
That ben stiller posted here viewtopic.php?f=50&t=66917&start=60#p7496115
I had a 1/2" cap soldered to the lid, then drilled out, a 1/2 inch riser, 1/2" 90 coupling, then 1/2" horizontal piece to the 45 and into the liebig. Cheap, simple effective although running speed was a little bit limited but it was fine to learn on and made some damn fine booze.

If you look through the pics in that thread you will find lots of ideas to do what you are thinking about.
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Re: Tools needed to build

Post by cranky »

Saltbush Bill wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 12:45 am
cranky wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 9:42 pm I think a lot of people either have never been on a tight budget or have forgotten what it was like starting out on one.
cranky wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 9:42 pm As far as I'm concerned that's it, that is the basic things absolutely needed to make a still but being a cheap bastard I find ways to make due. If your cheap you often have to be inventive.
:thumbup: :thumbup: Excellent post Cranky, people seem to have forgotten how to get into this hobby cheaply.......Is it the "must have now" ..."instant gratification" thing taking hold that we see so often in other parts of life these days ?
I cant believe what some people spend on a boiler alone before they even run for the first time.......every conceivable bell and whistle.....it really doesnt need to be that way for a beginner.
Thank you SBB

Maybe it is the instant gratification thing. Some people have more in a boiler than I have in all of my equipment put together. Sadly I've seen people spend $1,500-2,000 on a still then decide that distilling wasn't right for them and have to sell it at a loss or even have their equipment seized because it wasn't legal to sell where they lived. Sometimes the answer isn't "buy once, cry once" sometimes the answer is to be a cheap bastard and cobble something together and see how you like it before getting complicated.

I always try to take into account the needs and budget of the poster when I give advice like this. This doesn't have to be an expensive hobby if you are willing to do a bit of work.
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Re: Tools needed to build

Post by Ben »

Let's not forget that money isn't the only valuable thing we have. For me time is the most precious thing I have, I fabricate just about everything but if spending $40 on a part is going to save me a day of labor it makes a lot of sense. It is awesome and fulfilling for me to build stuff, but not everyone takes pleasure in it. Some peoples time is simply better spent earning, and they shouldn't be scorned or mocked for having more money than time, nor should they be exempted from the hobby just because it is easier for them to buy than build. Whatever it takes you to get in the hobby, get into it!

That convoluted pipe would be an excellent outside section for a Liebig if you could get it in a larger diameter, the convolution would do a great job of keeping the water flow upset.

Nice build list Cranky!
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Re: Tools needed to build

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MoonPenguin wrote: Wed Jan 26, 2022 5:02 am That is neat! and kinda what I had in mind, but I think I'll go with a 15-20 litre size as the boiler cost doesn't seem to vary too much. I'll keep an eye out in thrift shops for cheap pots too.
I have a 25L boiler with a 2 inch ferrule and a modular 2 inch pot that converts to a CCVM and its a great size, I have also got a 50l keg boiler as well. If you are building try to think ahead a bit as to what you may need.
Also if you are looking for pots in thrift stores try to get ones that have a lip or flange for the lid closure, I have been told it makes sealing a lot easier. Good luck with the build if you go ahead, I constantly look at 10k plus stills online while sipping on a very nice (in my opinion) refluxed all fients hybrid rum/bourbon or potted UJSSM with ice, lemon and water made in my homemade stills and that makes me smile :thumbup:
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