FLUTE TALK

VM CM LM Flutes Plate

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Re: FLUTE TALK

Postby pfshine » Thu May 17, 2018 9:49 am

Lots of guys run a plate under packing with mixed results, some love it some are indifferent. Best way to figure out is split a batch and run it both ways, keep good notes and try to keep everything identical power and cooling wise.
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Re: FLUTE TALK

Postby Swedish Pride » Thu May 17, 2018 12:44 pm

Copperhead road wrote:
MoonBreath wrote:2 for me also.
More carryover, abv stays lower for my preferred profile.

Moonbreath do you have problems keeping plates stable and loaded while running 2 plates????

Are you running perforated plates or bubble caps ?

This is very interesting as I have never heard of anyone running 2 plates on a bubbler before.. :think:


IIRC moon is using caps, not an issue to keep the plates loaded then, for me , running perfs 2 was a pain, had to keep adjusting, 3 works good
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Re: FLUTE TALK

Postby Copperhead road » Thu May 17, 2018 1:08 pm

Swedish Pride wrote:
Copperhead road wrote:
MoonBreath wrote:2 for me also.
More carryover, abv stays lower for my preferred profile.

Moonbreath do you have problems keeping plates stable and loaded while running 2 plates????

Are you running perforated plates or bubble caps ?

This is very interesting as I have never heard of anyone running 2 plates on a bubbler before.. :think:


IIRC moon is using caps, not an issue to keep the plates loaded then, for me , running perfs 2 was a pain, had to keep adjusting, 3 works good

Thanks Irish Lad :thumbup:
it all starts with a warm bath to get the right parts swollen, then you need to anoint it in spirit, only then do you get your nose near the hole......of course it’s an Oak Barrel full of UJ
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Re: FLUTE TALK

Postby Nunyo » Thu May 17, 2018 3:41 pm

pfshine wrote:Lots of guys run a plate under packing with mixed results, some love it some are indifferent. Best way to figure out is split a batch and run it both ways, keep good notes and try to keep everything identical power and cooling wise.

Thanks for the reply. Kind of figured the only upside would be a visual point of reference for reflux through the plates but also assume there would be some loss in terms of the HETP’s. I will likely just stick with all packing for the spirit run rather than taking things apart to add a bubble plate.
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Re: FLUTE TALK

Postby Nunyo » Sun May 20, 2018 11:52 am

I did my spirit run yesterday. My first spirt run ever. I packed my column with about 42” of copper mesh in the 4” diameter column. I am very curious what kind of take off rate others get.

I ran 12 gallons of 40% low wines. I was pushing about 2200 watts into the boiler and pulling about 450ml (just shy of 16oz) per 15-20 minutes. I never got anywhere close to flooding my column. My yield was around 4.8 gallons of 95% ABV which is pretty good. This was obviously much slower than the gallon every 20-30 minutes on my stripping run. The tails dropped off very fast. It went from 94% to 20% ABV over the course of less than 1 liter. The low wines had been treated with sodium bicarbonate for 10 days prior to the spirit run.

Since this was my spirit run, I err’d on the side of caution to insure a good run. I heated up with about 4200 watts and then dropped it back to 2200 watts for the run. I refluxed for about an hour and 20 minutes prior to take off. The entire run took around 15 hours which leads me to wonder how much faster I could have gone with additional heat without effecting the quality of the product.

One thing I will say is that this run was stupidly predictable. Granted, I have read more threads end to end and lurked here for over 2 years so I kind of knew how to run things in advance even though I had never run a still prior to my cleaning and stripping runs. My cooling setup consisted of a 55 gallon drum with water recirculating via a variable speed controllable pump. I feed the Deplegmator seperate from the PC via a manifold fitting and have a bypass valve on the dephlegmator feed to allow full reflux with the twist of a knob. I had a relatively slow flow rate through the dephlegmator but did have to swap water out once the coolant reservoir temp hit the 90’s. I had to do this a few times during the run while also using some frozen jugs of ice in the reservoir to slow down the temp increase in the water. I never had to futz with the needle valves or flow. I did a couple temp adjustments via the controller early on but that was it. Other than keeping on eye on the coolant temps in my reservoir, the run was essentially hands free. I collected using graduated cylinders in 450ml batches and knew when a swap had to be done. Like clock work, every 20 or so minutes (once I had the temp and flow dialed in) I had collected 450ml. The only variances I really had in the take off rates were when the coolant water in the reservoir heated and that obviously increased the take off rate. The parrot based hydrometer maintained a constant 96-97% reading through the entire run up until the final couple 450ml jars. One jar dropped to 95% which (due to the consistency of the run) led me to believe I was hitting the tails. The next dropped from 95% to 94% and the next dropped down from 94% to 87% over 450ml at which point I just through a jug under the output. The next 600 or so ml tanked from 87% to 20% at which point I knew it was over and shut my system down.

Anyhow, as I said, I am wondering what kind of take off rates other see with 4” columns. My guess is that if I had run the bubble plates and was seeing how the plates were stacking, I’d likely have been running significantly faster but with the column packed instead of running plates, I was likely run very slow compared to how I could have run it. I am also curious if running it faster would result in more off tastes or smearing. I tend to assume that there would be more smearing of the cuts but at which point (take off rate)?

Anyhow, here is a breakdown of the run from start to finish. I keep logs on every run for future reference. I am curious what others with more experience with these stills thinks about the length of this run and take off rate. I also included a picture of the setup for reference.

Spirit Run

Start at 7:15AM @4200w
400ml Fores at 8:20
Set to full reflux for 1:20 minutes
Set power to 2277w

Jar# Volume Time ABV Take Off Temp
Jar 1 450ml @ 9:56AM @ 97% @69*
Jar 2 450ml @ 10:27 @ 97% @72*
Jar 3 450ml @ 10:55 @ 97% @72*
Jar 4 450ml @ 11:20 @ 97% @72*
Jar 5 450ml @ 11:50 @ 97% @72*
Jar 6 450ml @ 12:25PM @ 97% @72*
Jar 7 450ml @ 12:50 @ 97% @71*
Jar 8 450ml @ 1:05 @97% @71*
Jar 9 450ml @ 1:20 @ 97% @73*
jar 10 450ml @ 1:37 @ 97% @74
Jar 11 450ml @ 1:55 @ 97% @75
Jar 12 450ml @ 2:10 @97% @75
Reflux for 20 minutes
Jar 13 450ml @ 2:46 @ 97% @74*
Jar 14 450ml @ 3:05 @ 97% @73*
Jar 15 450ml @ 3:20 @ 97 @ 74*
Jar 16 450ml @ 3:33 @ 97 @ 76*
Jar 17 450ml @ 3:55 @ 97 @ 76*
Jar 18 450ml @ 4:10 @ 97 @ 77*
Jar 19 450ml @4: 26 @ 97 @ 77*
Jar 20 450ml @ 4:37 @ 98 @ 80*
Jar 21 450ml @ 5:03 @ 98 @ 79*
Jar 22 450ml @ 5:22@ 97 @ 74*
Jar 23 450ml @ 5:41 @ 97 @ 74*
Jar 24 450ml @ 6:00 @ 97 @ 74*
Jar 25 450ml @ 6:16 @ 97 @ 74*
Jar 26 450ml @ 6:30 @ 97 @ 72*
25 min Reflux break
Jar 27 450ml @ 7:07 @ 97 @ 74*
Jar 28 450ml @ 7:20 @ 97 @ 75*
Jar 29 450ml @ 7:33 @ 97 @ 76*
Jar 30 450ml @ 7:49 @ 97 @ 76*
Jar 31 450ml @ 8:07 @ 97 @ 76*
Jar 32 450ml @ 8:25 @ 97 @ 75*
Jar 33 450ml @ 8:43 @ 97 @ 74*
Jar 34 450ml @ 9:03 @ 96 @ 71*
Jar 35 450ml @ 9:25 @ 96 @ 71*
Jar 36 450ml @ 9:40 @ 95 @ 71* ?tails start?
Jar 37 450ml @ 10:02 @ 94 @ 72*
Jar 38 450ml @ 10:20 @ 87 @ 72*
Bottle 500ml @ 10:35 @ 20 @ 73*
End
Attachments
C9E18EE5-3A22-466A-BC19-4FDA7153E576.jpeg
The setup. Packed with copper mesh to within 4” of the dephlegmator
C3A2F0C3-94A5-4768-8FEB-AEC42DB8B707.jpeg
Hydrometer reading held steady through the entire run. Only variance was due to take off temp of the spirits.
DE485EBD-CB47-402C-95B9-B47A7F1CFB2E.jpeg
The results.. 38 jars of 450ml each.
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Re: FLUTE TALK

Postby Copperhead road » Sun May 20, 2018 12:58 pm

What is the tube made of going from parrot to test beaker???
it all starts with a warm bath to get the right parts swollen, then you need to anoint it in spirit, only then do you get your nose near the hole......of course it’s an Oak Barrel full of UJ
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Re: FLUTE TALK

Postby Nunyo » Sun May 20, 2018 2:18 pm

Copperhead road wrote:What is the tube made of going from parrot to test beaker???


PTFE. 8)
https://www.fluorostore.com/products/fr ... mer-tubing

I picked up 10’ of the stuff.
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