Guiness keg and tri-clamps

VM CM LM Flutes Plate

Moderator: Site Moderator

Guiness keg and tri-clamps

Postby atticpc » Tue Nov 29, 2011 12:12 pm

Hi All

My boiler is a guiness keg. I want to update things to use a tri-clamp to attach the head. The ferrule on a guiness keg is just a little larger than 2 7/8 inches (its 2.884 inches, 73.3 mm)

So my option is to go for a 2" tri-clamp which according to St Pats is good for 2.516" OR going for a 2.5" tri-clamp which is good for 3.047".

Any thoughts and comments would be appreciated. Just wondering if the 2.5 tri-clamp would work with a ferrule which is smaller than recommended.
atticpc
Novice
 
Posts: 62
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2008 11:21 pm
Location: Ireland - The West

Re: Guiness keg and tri-clamps

Postby DAPHELP » Tue Nov 29, 2011 2:00 pm

id say those differences are way to big!!! recipe for disaster
DAPHELP
Novice
 
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2011 2:20 pm

Re: Guiness keg and tri-clamps

Postby emptyglass » Thu Dec 01, 2011 3:45 am

Not really sure what you mean, but,

sounds like the 2 7/8" is an inside diameter. If so, it would be fair to assume its a 3" outlet on a Guinness keg.
If 2 7/8" is the size of the outside diameter of the keg fitting, my guess is it's a 2" outlet.

How am I going so far?

What are you using at the moment?
Does the keg neck have a flange?
Some better sizes and pic's would help.
You design it, I make it. Copper and Stainless. Down under. PM me.
User avatar
emptyglass
Site Donor
Site Donor
 
Posts: 1511
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2010 3:59 am
Location: Victoria, Australia.Usually the shed. Sometimes the cellar.

Re: Guiness keg and tri-clamps

Postby maheel » Thu Dec 01, 2011 4:04 am

Image

like this ?

can you use the threaded bit from the spear to weld onto your pipe or create a easy flange off it somehow ?
maheel
Site Donor
Site Donor
 
Posts: 936
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 11:25 pm
Location: OZtralia in the lower half

Re: Guiness keg and tri-clamps

Postby emptyglass » Thu Dec 01, 2011 5:03 am

Looks like either would be an option.
You design it, I make it. Copper and Stainless. Down under. PM me.
User avatar
emptyglass
Site Donor
Site Donor
 
Posts: 1511
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2010 3:59 am
Location: Victoria, Australia.Usually the shed. Sometimes the cellar.

Re: Guiness keg and tri-clamps

Postby Coaster » Thu Dec 01, 2011 7:08 am

@ atticpc,

Dairy Sanitary Tri Clamp Ferrules are not that expensive. Suggest purchasing a 2-inch ferrule and see if it will fit your Guiness keg.

I might be wrong but I believe that a 2-inch Dairy Sanitary Tri Clamp Ferrule will fit on your Guiness keg. The outside diameter sizes of the flange on the top of Beer Kegs from my experience are the same dimension (2-inch Dairy Sanitary Tri Clamp size). What is different between various kegs is the extractor tube being affixed to the neck - ie. the internal milling of the neck inside diameter size.

Regards,
Coaster
Coaster
Site Donor
Site Donor
 
Posts: 608
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2010 1:07 pm

Re: Guiness keg and tri-clamps

Postby atticpc » Thu Dec 01, 2011 11:39 am

Thanks to all who have replied.

emptyglass - currently I am using a slide fitting. I did up a posting on my build previoulsy. It is available here.
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=8845. The finished pot is here http://homedistiller.org/forum/download/file.php?id=1582&mode=view.

The 2 7/8 is the external measurement of the ferrul on the top of the keg, and it does have a 2" pipe. Just that the ferrule is larger than normal. The fitting that I currently use is very successful - but does not lend itself to getting my column set up perfectly vertically. So I was just looking at other methods.

As Coaster points out the clamps are not too expensive (now that I have managed to find someone who stocks them) so I may as well go off and buy one and see how it goes.
atticpc
Novice
 
Posts: 62
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2008 11:21 pm
Location: Ireland - The West

Re: Guiness keg and tri-clamps

Postby emptyglass » Thu Dec 01, 2011 1:49 pm

If you can get a 2" ferrule, you could sit it on the existing flange and check size. If its too big to let the clamp funtion right, maybe you could mark around the triclamp ferrule, and grind the edge of the keg flange till its right.
You design it, I make it. Copper and Stainless. Down under. PM me.
User avatar
emptyglass
Site Donor
Site Donor
 
Posts: 1511
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2010 3:59 am
Location: Victoria, Australia.Usually the shed. Sometimes the cellar.

Re: Guiness keg and tri-clamps

Postby DAPHELP » Thu Dec 01, 2011 8:14 pm

would taking it to an engineering firm and getting them to cut off the current fitting on the 2" neck be possible? when you say 2" pipe, do you mean outside diameter (2" SS tube)? if so, a ferrule will make a nice butt weld once cut. if you mean actual 2" pipe (2" ID) the ferrule would probably sit inside nice for welding.

It would really make your life easier

or better, get them to mill the whole fitting out, holesaw it and put a 3" ferrule on there. at the same time get a 3" cap drilled to accept a 2" ferrule and have them welded too. once youve done that you can attach your 2" ferrule no dramas and also youve left the capability to upgrade to 3" any time without any dramas.

youll probably pay for an hours labor and the parts. you wont regret it
DAPHELP
Novice
 
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2011 2:20 pm

Re: Guiness keg and tri-clamps

Postby DAPHELP » Thu Dec 01, 2011 8:15 pm

emptyglass wrote:If you can get a 2" ferrule, you could sit it on the existing flange and check size. If its too big to let the clamp funtion right, maybe you could mark around the triclamp ferrule, and grind the edge of the keg flange till its right.


+1 or maybe get a 2.5" hole saw or something and cut the flange down to size like that
DAPHELP
Novice
 
Posts: 35
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2011 2:20 pm

Re: Guiness keg and tri-clamps

Postby Coaster » Thu Dec 01, 2011 8:50 pm

@ atticpc,

Keep in mind that they make Dairy Sanitary Tri Clamp Ferrules in various sizes (1",1.5",2",2.5",3",4"). If you find that a 2” Dairy Sanitary Tri Clamp Ferrule is not the correct size for your Guinness keg you might try a different size Dairy Sanitary Tri Clamp Ferrule to see if you can find the correct size that correctly fits your Guinness keg.

If you cannot find the correct size Dairy Sanitary Tri Clamp Ferrule that fits your Guinness keg then forum member DAPHELP suggestion of visiting a Machine Shop and having them remove the flange and welding a 3” Dairy Sanitary Tri Clamp Ferrule on the top of your Guinness keg is a viable solution.

Regards,
Coaster
Coaster
Site Donor
Site Donor
 
Posts: 608
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2010 1:07 pm

Re: Guiness keg and tri-clamps

Postby emptyglass » Fri Dec 02, 2011 3:22 am

Coaster wrote:If you cannot find the correct size Dairy Sanitary Tri Clamp Ferrule that fits your Guinness keg then forum member DAPHELP suggestion of visiting a Machine Shop and having them remove the flange and welding a 3” Dairy Sanitary Tri Clamp Ferrule on the top of your Guinness keg is a viable solution.

Regards,
Coaster


If you do go down the road of taking it to a machine or jobbing shop, you can save a bit of cash by prepping it yourself, that is, cut your old flange off yourself, cut the hole to suit the inside size of the ferrule you choose to use and clean up any burrs.

A 4" hole in a keg becomes very versitile. It would not be much difference in cost for the work to weld a ferrule to your keg, be it a 2", 3" or 4".

It does look like you could use a 2" clamp, maybe a little modifiying...
You design it, I make it. Copper and Stainless. Down under. PM me.
User avatar
emptyglass
Site Donor
Site Donor
 
Posts: 1511
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2010 3:59 am
Location: Victoria, Australia.Usually the shed. Sometimes the cellar.

Re: Guiness keg and tri-clamps

Postby atticpc » Mon Dec 05, 2011 6:02 am

Hi All

I think that I will head down the road of getting a 2" clamp - and adjust the top of the keg to suit. That's what angle grinders were invented for :lol:
atticpc
Novice
 
Posts: 62
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2008 11:21 pm
Location: Ireland - The West

Re: Guiness keg and tri-clamps

Postby Coaster » Mon Dec 05, 2011 7:02 am

@ atticpc,

Before grinding away on your Guinness keg flange suggest obtaining both a 2-inch and a 2-½ inch Dairy Sanitary Tri Clamp Ferrule. There is a possibility that a 2 ½ inch Dairy Sanitary Tri Clamp Ferrules might fit on your Guinness keg flange and you will not have to do any grinding at all.

If in fact a 2-½ inch Dairy Sanitary Tri Clamp Ferrule is the correct size for your Guinness keg you can easily use a 2-½ inch to 2-inch copper reducer to fit your 2-inch column to your keg. It would be a shame to needlessly grind away your Guinness keg flange when a 2-½ inch Dairy Sanitary Tri Clamp Ferrule would work. If you make an error and grind away too much of your Guinness keg flange you will never have perfect seal and always have leaking and alignment problems.

If you obtain a 2 ½ inch Dairy Sanitary Tri Clamp Ferrule and find that it is too large for your Guinness keg flange I would be looking at the possibility of grinding modifying a 2 ½ inch Dairy Sanitary Tri Clamp Ferrule to fit your Guinness keg flange instead of grinding the Guinness keg flange.

Regards,
Coaster
Coaster
Site Donor
Site Donor
 
Posts: 608
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2010 1:07 pm

Re: Guiness keg and tri-clamps

Postby emptyglass » Mon Dec 05, 2011 3:05 pm

Atticpc, Coaster has a good point.

Also, if it is in fact 2 1/2", and you cut it off, theres a risk your new 2" ferrule will fall through a big hole.

I would suggest you get all your new parts and do some size comparisons before any cutting.

Ahhh, cut it all off and go 3" 8)
You design it, I make it. Copper and Stainless. Down under. PM me.
User avatar
emptyglass
Site Donor
Site Donor
 
Posts: 1511
Joined: Sat Oct 09, 2010 3:59 am
Location: Victoria, Australia.Usually the shed. Sometimes the cellar.

Re: Guiness keg and tri-clamps

Postby atticpc » Wed Dec 07, 2011 1:05 am

So many ways to skin this cat :D
atticpc
Novice
 
Posts: 62
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2008 11:21 pm
Location: Ireland - The West

Re: Guiness keg and tri-clamps

Postby Duncan W » Thu Mar 30, 2017 7:39 am

atticpc wrote:Hi All

I think that I will head down the road of getting a 2" clamp - and adjust the top of the keg to suit. That's what angle grinders were invented for :lol:


+1
Just piping in on this older thread as it helped my build in progress. I picked up a free Guinness keg, thanks to a family friend. After a half hour, a sore fore arm and 2 (4 1/2" metal/stainless discs) I managed to grind the outside ferrule dia. down to 2 5/8"... remember proper PPE. My 2" easy flanged copper riser is connected with a 2" tri clamp.
Duncan W
Novice
 
Posts: 17
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2017 8:27 am
Location: South Western Ontario

Re: Guiness keg and tri-clamps

Postby rockystill » Sat Aug 04, 2018 12:08 pm

Duncan W wrote:+1
Just piping in on this older thread as it helped my build in progress. I picked up a free Guinness keg, thanks to a family friend. After a half hour, a sore fore arm and 2 (4 1/2" metal/stainless discs) I managed to grind the outside ferrule dia. down to 2 5/8"... remember proper PPE. My 2" easy flanged copper riser is connected with a 2" tri clamp.


Hey Duncan...I'm planning the modification of a keg for my first still, and it turns out I have a Guinness keg as well. Just my luck. I'm about to start grinding down the ferrule to about 2.5" so a tri clamp will fit (planning a 2" column).

Just wanted to check in with you to see if you had any issues down the road - did this work out ok for you?
rockystill
Novice
 
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2018 7:55 am
Location: Colorado

Re: Guiness keg and tri-clamps

Postby Duncan W » Sun Aug 05, 2018 12:46 pm

Hi Rockystill. This works just fine for my purposes and has been used for about a couple dozen strip/spirit runs.
Mind you I only went to 2 5/8" dia. as it fit my 2" dairy tri clamp. After the first couple runs i did have some leakage at
the keg and column connection but fixed this with Samahon's "everlasting PTFE gasket'. There may be some variation
in fit pending which direction you go in connecting the keg to your column/riser ie. ferrule, spool, easy flange etc. Hope this helps.
Duncan W
Novice
 
Posts: 17
Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2017 8:27 am
Location: South Western Ontario

Re: Guiness keg and tri-clamps

Postby cob » Sun Aug 05, 2018 12:57 pm

atticpc wrote:So many ways to skin this cat :D


so true. the engineering specifications of all dairy fittings are online, every dimension and angle.
be water my friend
cob
Distiller
 
Posts: 1710
Joined: Sun Jul 26, 2009 4:38 pm
Location: little puffs of dust where my feet used to be

Re: Guiness keg and tri-clamps

Postby rockystill » Sun Aug 05, 2018 1:25 pm

Thanks Duncan. My tentative plan is to use this ferrule, which I'll solder to 2" copper column myself:
https://www.brewershardware.com/2-Tri-C ... ory_id=277

and then use their triclamp to attach that column to my newly-grinded down keg ferrule:
https://www.brewershardware.com/2-Tri-C ... ory_id=277

...I'll suppose I'll grind down very close to 2.5". OD of the ferrule is 2.516", but I imagine there's *some* tolerance in getting a good seal with that clamp?
I'll either make my own "everlasting PTFE gasket", or get something like this...I know it's gotta be flat on the keg side.
https://www.brewershardware.com/ptfe-fl ... ory_id=331
rockystill
Novice
 
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2018 7:55 am
Location: Colorado

Re: Guiness keg and tri-clamps

Postby still_stirrin » Sun Aug 05, 2018 2:50 pm

rockystill wrote:... something like this...I know it's gotta be flat on the keg side.
https://www.brewershardware.com/ptfe-fl ... ory_id=331

Yep, that is the correct gasket. For the keg-side face of the gasket, lay a piece of 120 grit sandpaper on a flat surface. Then use the ferrule to hold the gasket and slide it back and forth across the sandpaper. It will quickly sand off the bead on one surface so you can use that against the keg outlet. Keep the bead on the other side as it is an important part of the gasket’s seal (to the ferrule).

Easy to do. Oh, and when buying the gasket...order a couple...they’re inexpensive and you’ll have a spare IF you ever need one.
ss
Attention new distillers: Cranky's spoon feed info
What is a Proof & Traille hydrometer: Alcohol-meter
Enzyme info: SebStar
HD Google search info: HD Google-how to
All about mashing grains: Braukaiser
User avatar
still_stirrin
Master Distiller
 
Posts: 6190
Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 7:01 am
Location: where the buffalo roam, and the deer & antelope play

Re: Guiness keg and tri-clamps

Postby boda getta » Sun Aug 05, 2018 3:48 pm

I have a Bass Ale keg I believe is the same type you have; I just purchased a reg 2" ferrule like I use with my US kegs and had it welded on top of the existing Bass top. Works great!
The Bass keg was given me, so I still came out great with the cost. Also, I've found that if you check with your local beer distributes, they often have a few non-standard kegs they will give you.

Good luck
BG
boda getta
Site Donor
Site Donor
 
Posts: 1208
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2011 12:39 pm

Re: Guiness keg and tri-clamps

Postby rockystill » Thu Aug 09, 2018 8:55 am

Yeah boda - that's where I'm headed too...I'm having other ferrules welded on, so why not just have a ferrule mounted on top. Good idea.
rockystill
Novice
 
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2018 7:55 am
Location: Colorado


Return to Column Builds



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests