New still build on the way

Vapor, Liquid or Cooling Management. Flutes, plates, etc.

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olddog
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Re: New still build on the way

Post by olddog »

I am not sure whether he has still got some, but Kiwi had a supply of 4"tri-clamps and stainless flanges.


OD
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Re: New still build on the way

Post by Austin Nichols »

olddog wrote:I am not sure whether he has still got some, but Kiwi had a supply of 4"tri-clamps and stainless flanges.


OD
Yep that's who I'm getting them from. :wink:

The only real hurdle I see with this build (for me) is the plates, I'm thinking of a threaded stainless rod with stainless nuts to hold the copper plates in and using the second tri clamp on the bottom of the dephlag, and somehow making the plates removable & adjustable so I can have 3 or 4 or 5 plates for different products....

I hope that makes sense.

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Re: New still build on the way

Post by olddog »

Easy done, just suspend the plate assembly from the base of the dephlag, leaving the coulumn clean to remove or add plates.


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Re: New still build on the way

Post by HookLine »

Austin Nichols wrote:Do you think there would be any gain in performance by having the column to boiler connection in 4" ?
Seriously doubt it. The short (and empty) 2" connecting section is not the limiting restriction to vapour flow in a flute, not even close. The limiting restriction is the plates themselves. I will bet you can push much more vapour through that 2" opening than you could ever push through the 4" plates.

Also, the vapour speeds we are running are nothing near the speeds where that kind of restriction starts being significant.

Not saying don't do a 4" opening, just that it won't make any difference to the amount of vapour you can push through a 4" plated column.
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Re: New still build on the way

Post by Austin Nichols »

HookLine wrote:
Austin Nichols wrote:Do you think there would be any gain in performance by having the column to boiler connection in 4" ?
Seriously doubt it. The short (and empty) 2" connecting section is not the limiting restriction to vapour flow in a flute, not even close. The limiting restriction is the plates themselves. I will bet you can push much more vapour through that 2" opening than you could ever push through the 4" plates.

Also, the vapour speeds we are running are nothing near the speeds where that kind of restriction starts being significant.

Not saying don't do a 4" opening, just that it won't make any difference to the amount of vapour you can push through a 4" plated column.
Yeah I was thinking the plates would be the main thing restricting vapor flow, but also thought that with no restriction at all before the bottom plate it (the bottom plate) would get hit with more vapor that would make it bubble more than what others have experienced from theirs?
olddog wrote:Easy done, just suspend the plate assembly from the base of the dephlag, leaving the coulumn clean to remove or add plates.


OD
Just the ticket I reckon, couple of bits of U cut from 1/2 inch glued in the bottom of the dephlag as cradles will do just nice.

I was leaning towards getting an engineering shop to make the plates out of some nice thick copper plate as I dont really have the tools to machine them perfectly to fit the column, so if I gotta go that way I might as well get them done in 6ish mm copper plate.

I was going to start a new topic but thought it better to keep things in one place for others who contemplate doing this build, that way the questions and info are all kept compact, I will start another topic once I gets the balls to start gluing my version of this build together.

Thanks for your help guys, much appreciated :wink:

Cheers.
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Re: New still build on the way

Post by HookLine »

Yeah I was thinking the plates would be the main thing restricting vapor flow, but also thought that with no restriction at all before the bottom plate it (the bottom plate) would get hit with more vapor that would make it bubble more than what others have experienced from theirs?
As long as you leave a small space above the 2" opening for the vapour to expand out to 4" and slow down, I don't see a problem. The space provided by the 2-4" connector should be enough.
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Re: New still build on the way

Post by Austin Nichols »

I'll just have to mock up the bits I have to show what I'm trying to achieve and accept any critique from there, I think my version I have in my head is going to be very different from the standard flute, but I think everyone will like it even if I dont go with the sight glasses.

Cheers.
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Re: New still build on the way

Post by DorianGray »

did you have any luck finding the 4" triclamps? im after some myself, how much are we looking at price wise per clamp? ive had various quotes ranging from $12- 25 (NZD)each, the cheapest being an online surplus store (one off bulk lot im thinking), the most expensive from a SS supply
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Re: New still build on the way

Post by Kiwi-lembic »

olddog wrote:
rednose wrote:Yep, the dephlamator is a little fuzzy to built and you did it in copper what is easy to form.
Actually copper is more difficult to work with, as the heat transfer when making joints can de-solder nearby joints,
For what its worth to anybody... in my trade working with these hugely conductive materials ,we sometimes surround the job or put behind were we are soldering a piece of pumice (volcanic type light rock it is available in small blocks at the chemist for scrubbin feet ) )it handles huge heat and keeps the heat concentrated around the job ..its also fantatsic for pocking wires and holding and mocking up parts till we get the solder joint done ....my 50c hope this helps someone
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Re: New still build on the way

Post by rad14701 »

Kiwi-lembic, thanks for the great advice... While I have used fire bricks in the past I have never considered something portable and lightweight as pumice stone... I would assume that a bag lava stone for gas grills would also suffice and might also help with component positioning...
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Re: New still build on the way

Post by Braz »

Back in the day... My first real job was in an auto body repair shop. When we needed a heat dam we had chopped asbestos fiber that we mixed with water to a dough like consistency and applied to the metal panel around the weld spot. Then we'd go into the paint booth and spray a whole car with no respirator at all. We didn't even know what a respirator was.

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Re: New still build on the way

Post by Kiwi-lembic »

rad14701 wrote:Kiwi-lembic, thanks for the great advice... While I have used fire bricks in the past I have never considered something portable and lightweight as pumice stone... I would assume that a bag lava stone for gas grills would also suffice and might also help with component positioning...
Hi There Rad ..good to hear from you again ..i would imagine those stones for barbys would do the same trick but they are hard if i remember ..
it works real good for something you cant get enough heat into ...all of a sudden solders will flow when you apply this trick ..The pumice boulders in these islands as a majority are hard ..i used to walk around the beaches of lake Taupo pokin a nail in bits just selecting the real soft ones ..they are so handy to hold things as a jig would until its joined..also i bought a big box off our trademe...you may find some on ebay ...have a gr8t weekend ...kiwi-L
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Re: New still build on the way

Post by Stainless »

BUMP
New peeps
read this and go to Mother Earth and Journey to Forever
there's gonna be a lot of new people on here soon, that stupid show is comin' back on tv
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Re: New still build on the way

Post by Budapest8485 »

olddog wrote:Latest progress on the build
plates.JPG
The plate assembly fitted, the 1/4" tube was flattened on the end, which spreads it larger than 1/4", it was then drilled with 1/4" hole, and another piece of 1/4" tube pushed through the 4" wall to suspend the plate assembly, this can be used as a blind thermometer port.
sight glasses.JPG
The sight glass hardware now soldered into the column ( without glass ) , the column will need a major clean to get rid of any marks incured during the fabrication.

OD
I realize this is an old post. Do the plate on this have to be sealed to the side walls of the column to work properly, or does the upward moving vapor mean a tight seal isn't necessary to cause pooling and overflow into the downcomers? I'm trying to wrap my head about this type of build to see if I can pull it off myself.
3 x 60 inch Bokabob, 8 gallon boiler, 4500w

3 inch pot still head, reduce 2, then to 48 inch 1/2 condenser. 8 gallon boiler, 4500w
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Re: New still build on the way

Post by Budapest8485 »

I have a 6 inch wide x 40 inch long heavy walled glass cylinder with flat ground smooth ends sitting on my countertop. I'm looking at it and ideas are bouncing around in my head. Stainless steel plates with tri clap ferrules on each end...4-5 threaded steel rods running the full length to compress these plates to the glass with expanded PTFE gasket material between the glass and the plates. Inside, something like this: download/file.php?id=27457&mode=view
3 x 60 inch Bokabob, 8 gallon boiler, 4500w

3 inch pot still head, reduce 2, then to 48 inch 1/2 condenser. 8 gallon boiler, 4500w
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Re: New still build on the way

Post by still_stirrin »

Budapest8485 wrote:I have a 6 inch wide x 40 inch long heavy walled glass cylinder with flat ground smooth ends sitting on my countertop. I'm looking at it and ideas are bouncing around in my head. Stainless steel plates with tri clap ferrules on each end...4-5 threaded steel rods running the full length to compress these plates to the glass with expanded PTFE gasket material between the glass and the plates.
Is it borosilicate glass, better known as “pyrex”? If the glass is otherwise, be very careful...it will be sensitive to thermal shock (temperature extremes making it susceptable to cracking).

Also, be aware that different materials, glass, stainless steel, and copper all have different coefficients of thermal expansion, that is - they will “grow” at different rates during heat up and cool down. Again, this can create stress in the materials and glass won’t handle it like a ductile metal would and this likewise can cause fracture of the glass.

For this reason, glass is not a typical “approved material” for hobby distilling. Granted, many here use commercially produced sight glasses in their stills. So, some exceptions to the rules are appropriate.

Good luck. Be safe, responsible, and discrete.
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Re: New still build on the way

Post by emptyglass »

Budapest8485 wrote:
olddog wrote:Latest progress on the build
plates.JPG
The plate assembly fitted, the 1/4" tube was flattened on the end, which spreads it larger than 1/4", it was then drilled with 1/4" hole, and another piece of 1/4" tube pushed through the 4" wall to suspend the plate assembly, this can be used as a blind thermometer port.
sight glasses.JPG
The sight glass hardware now soldered into the column ( without glass ) , the column will need a major clean to get rid of any marks incured during the fabrication.

OD
I realize this is an old post. Do the plate on this have to be sealed to the side walls of the column to work properly, or does the upward moving vapor mean a tight seal isn't necessary to cause pooling and overflow into the downcomers? I'm trying to wrap my head about this type of build to see if I can pull it off myself.
Yes, the plates have to be sealed to the wall. Unless you can come up with a way to measure and balance for uneven seals. Not trying to be a smarty pants.

Each plate has to work the same as the one below or above. If your plates have bypass (leaky seals) it wont be balanced
You design it, I make it. Copper and Stainless. Down under. PM me.
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Re: New still build on the way

Post by The Baker »

Budapest8485 wrote:I have a 6 inch wide x 40 inch long heavy walled glass cylinder with flat ground smooth ends sitting on my countertop. I'm looking at it and ideas are bouncing around in my head. Stainless steel plates with tri clap ferrules on each end...4-5 threaded steel rods running the full length to compress these plates to the glass with expanded PTFE gasket material between the glass and the plates. Inside, something like this: download/file.php?id=27457&mode=view
There might be some way of making a solar still with this; production would not be high but there would be no costs and no need to constantly monitor from a safety point of view....

I have a couple of pyrex bowls from a milking machine, could hold as much as forty litres apiece, with openings top and bottom and a couple of smaller ones, one each side.

And one day, ONE DAY, I might figure out (and make) a solar still from them.

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Re: New still build on the way

Post by Saltbush Bill »

Thought I'd give this old thread a bump so that some of the newer members can see how "flutes" plated columns, have evolved over the past 10 or so years.......back then you didn't just order a still online.....if you wanted in on this hobby you built or went without.
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Re: New still build on the way

Post by acfixer69 »

Ahh the good old days. We were all building it and didn't know if it would work at the 4 inch size. The thrill is gone.. Naa. It was a great experience for me and I got at least one more build in me. We all learned so f..in much so fast.
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Re: New still build on the way

Post by Stonecutter »

Saltbush Bill wrote: Wed Jan 19, 2022 5:03 pm Thought I'd give this old thread a bump so that some of the newer members can see how "flutes" plated columns, have evolved over the past 10 or so years.......back then you didn't just order a still online.....if you wanted in on this hobby you built or went without.
You know, someone aught to make a biography about olddog and the guys who started all this so long ago. Flutes, bokakobs, ccvm setups are everywhere and 99% of people have no idea where they came from. The contributions of Pintoshines’ enzymes and all you guys who have made it possible for the freaks and geeks like me to jump right into the hobby. Last but not least the man himself UJ. The site itself and the evolution of the hobby is fit perfect for a mini-Netflix series. I tend to have delusions of grandeur though. They made a video about Popcorn might as well SHINE some light on the modem innovators of this hobby. If I had the time and resources I’d start researching and investigating myself ahh…C’est la vie.
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Re: New still build on the way

Post by Saltbush Bill »

Your right Stonecutter, there is a huge amount of hobby distilling history on this forum.
The forum has been the breeding ground for many , many of the hobbies major innovations and still design ideas.
I don't think many new to the hobby begin to understand just how much this forum has contributed to hobby distiiling or how much knowledge is held here on the forums pages and within the membership.
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Re: New still build on the way

Post by Danespirit »

+1 Sc
+1 SB

Cheers to all the gentlemen in here that shared their knowledge with us all. 🍻
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Re: New still build on the way

Post by fzbwfk9r »

rednose wrote: Tue May 18, 2010 9:57 pm You would need to solder a ring in the reducer like I draw it in your paint job.

That way the reflux doesn't run down on the column surface.
if using plates, why would that matter?
as long as the condensate makes it to the plate, and NOT falling through the downcomers, it doesn't matter how it gets there.

no need to add unnecessary soldering....
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Re: New still build on the way

Post by LWTCS »

fzbwfk9r wrote: Sun Apr 10, 2022 2:55 pm
rednose wrote: Tue May 18, 2010 9:57 pm You would need to solder a ring in the reducer like I draw it in your paint job.

That way the reflux doesn't run down on the column surface.
if using plates, why would that matter?
as long as the condensate makes it to the plate, and NOT falling through the downcomers, it doesn't matter how it gets there.

no need to add unnecessary soldering....
Look at you going deep into the catacombs with your reading!

You are (imo) quite correct.
In those days there was a bit of confusion as the hobby scale plated column info began to shake out and vet.

Were this a time machine, I'd have loved to read Rednose's response to your observation. Though he would have had to be moderated shortly thereafter.
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Re: New still build on the way

Post by The Baker »

I miss Rednose.

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Re: New still build on the way

Post by fzbwfk9r »

Haha... you do know, it is often recommended to do a LOT of reading first.... then ask questions/comments

There is a an incredible amount of information on here, unfortunately, there is no one updating the "Current Knowledge" base

I gotta go.... eyes are bleeding again
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