FOA still head flow

[ozone39]

This FOA was posted quite some time ago. I am curious as to the flow schematic of this head and how it works. My big question where the center tube ties in to the 180 bend piece, is that blocked off or is this a tee??? Are these efficient still heads????

[hackware]

i think yer just hooked on weird pipes...

[Kifi]

Ordinary CM reflux still with structural reinforcement in the form of the curved T joint pipes. Designed by Salvador Dali. On LSD.

[rad14701]

This FOA was posted quite some time ago. I am curious as to the flow schematic of this head and how it works. My big question where the center tube ties in to the 180 bend piece, is that blocked off or is this a tee??? Are these efficient still heads????

No, that connection is not blocked according to the diagrams I have, which I believe all came from here in the forums... In fact all connections are live and not simply intended as structural support...

[HookLine]

That is a Ponu.

[Kifi]

Rad - dumb it down for me - what the heck is going on there? Can you explain the vapor flow? If the curved T isn't structural, then this is the strangest thing I've ever seen....

[HookLine]

I just gave you the name of the thing. If you do a forum or Google search you will find the answers to your questions.

[rad14701]

I haven't seen any flow diagrams for the Ponu FOA but it looks as though the lower loop with the reflux tube down the center is meant to cause vapor flow equalization for the reflux circuit while still allowing vapor to flow to the product condenser... One other thing I have noticed is that performance might be able to be tweaked by adjusting the amount of restriction is built into the bottom of the reflux tube... Diagrams show the reflux return orifice being about 10% - 20% of the tubes original cross sectional area... This helps insure that vapor doesn't travel back up through the reflux tube because it will take the path of least resistance and flow up through the lowest vapor port, adjacent the reflux return port...

[hackware]

rite...

it all makes cents now...

i've done process systems 4 30 years but this makes my i's cross...

but, i've never figgered out ozone's big eye candy ponu either...

[ozone39]

seems like the location of the pull of tube to the final condenser might have some effects as well...

[Kifi]

I want to play with this. Anyone want to build me one?

[LWTCS]

seems like the location of the pull of tube to the final condenser might have some effects as well...

Yes good observation. I have wonder'd how the builder's/designer's conclude where to land any particular intersection.
In my own mind it does seem like the "pull" tube is in the best possible location, but would have no opinion at all with out the diagram to reference.

Truthfully Ozone, you are gonna have to fly by the seat of your pants while evaluating this design. Shit your likely the most qualified member at HD to have an opinion about this type of system...

[ozone39]

The eraser board is calling me out on this one....Seems to me the lower down the tube the pull of connection is the hotter the still will run in pushing out the vapor (less bads). Higher up and the path is less restricted (more bads)... so finding the median would be the trick....The real difference i see between this still head and a ponu head is there is no secondary flash chamber of any sort. On a ponu there would be a p-trap or thumper ball where that restricted orifice is on this one. This still head is dropping the condensed alcohol/water back into the pot..This is an interesting concept here....I guess I'm also a little thrown off by the location of that condenser tube on the middle riser...I'm guessing the methanols (and other heavy's) will condense first down this tube, while the ethanol's continue over to the pull off tube. If that is the case I like it, I have a rotating funnel under my column (inside the still) that I use to pull the headshots off with..When the funnel is upright is catches the bads and pipes them to a receiver out side the still. One the bads are gone i rotate the funnel side ways and the still operates in normal mode....Thinking I might have to come up with a plan on this one....

[LWTCS]

This still head is dropping the condensed alcohol/water back into the pot.

Again a good observation.
See now I would not want any of my already distilled alcohol going back to the boiler,,,,,,unless it were a secondary boiler . Already burned a calorie or two distilling it the first time. Need to use the same (recycled) calories to distill it again. Not a brand new caloric expenditure.....IMO.

[mash rookie]

I want to play with this. Anyone want to build me one?

Hell, I just want to understand what I am looking at.

The eraser board is calling me out on this one....Seems to me the lower down the tube the pull of connection is the hotter the still will run in pushing out the vapor (less bads). Higher up and the path is less restricted (more bads)... so finding the median would be the trick....The real difference i see between this still head and a ponu head is there is no secondary flash chamber of any sort. On a ponu there would be a p-trap or thumper ball where that restricted orifice is on this one. This still head is dropping the condensed alcohol/water back into the pot..This is an interesting concept here....I guess I'm also a little thrown off by the location of that condenser tube on the middle riser...I'm guessing the methanols (and other heavy's) will condense first down this tube, while the ethanol's continue over to the pull off tube. If that is the case I like it, I have a rotating funnel under my column (inside the still) that I use to pull the headshots off with..When the funnel is upright is catches the bads and pipes them to a receiver out side the still. One the bads are gone i rotate the funnel side ways and the still operates in normal mode....Thinking I might have to come up with a plan on this one....

Ozone, will you draw us a sketch of how you think this would work? Take a picture of your chalk board? I would love to know more about your funnel design too. Pleeease?

MR

[cob]

The eraser board is calling me out on this one....Seems to me the lower down the tube the pull of connection is the hotter the still will run in pushing out the vapor (less bads). Higher up and the path is less restricted (more bads)... so finding the median would be the trick....The real difference i see between this still head and a ponu head is there is no secondary flash chamber of any sort.... snip ....Thinking I might have to come up with a plan on this one....

ozone39 think you could engineer a slider (like a trombone) in the pull tube to enable you to vary your take off point ? cob

[Prairiepiss]

I just wish someone would make or find some sort of flow diagram for that thing. I've looked at it so long now I have a headache. I can't get past the path of least resistance thing. Oh wait I think I just had a ah ha moment.

[ozone39]

Figured I would finally get something done on this one, I am in dire straights for a smaller stove top unit for running small amounts of striped spirits through....And being a ponu fan I've been drafting some plans (or modifying originally posted) for a couple weeks now and materials are coming in...I'm adding a needle valve for reflux control in lue of the pinched pipe and installing a clear sight glass below the valve to visually be able to monitor the amount of reflux...keep ya posted

[acfixer69]

ozone39

It's been 15 mins come on post the revised diagrams Been interested in the Ponu since I came abroad. Built a few plated 4 inchers cant say the "flute" thing but don't mined a challenge am looking for a winter project. Ponu could be cool.

AC

[LWTCS]

It seems quite clear,,,the vapor path.
Can you characterize how this vapor path may produce a better spirit? Or perhaps what spirit this vapor path best produces?
Would you say that this system offers some judicious smearing?

[just sayin]

A post in a distilling forum in Sweden posted 3 or so years ago said FOA is an acronym for "Defense Research Establishment". They refered to the still as "Otto" and said it was origonal designed by the Swedish Military to make rocket fuel in the field. The post may have been bogus, but the info was in a file of material I put together at that time. It was a facinating little head that I had most of the material for lying around my shop, but before I started to cut and bend copper I came across a number of posts that said it was not a very functional design, though there were many other that said it was a great little still head. I didn't build it so all I can do is past along what I have read. I am looking forward to hearing results of a FOA/Otto built and tested here on HD!

Just Sayin.....

[ozone39]

can not characterize anything and have no idea how this still head performs or what spirits are best to be produced from it....I like the otto story and the rocket fuel in the field....Hopefully soon I will have some answers...not so much on the rocket fuel though...

[just sayin]

Some of the first shine I ever tasted 35 or maybe 40 years ago tasted much more like rocket fuel than anything I wanted to bring near my mouth again. Maybe something like Tim and Tickle would come up with. That may be why I had no interest in shine for the next the next 30 or so years ......that is 'till someone passed me a pint Mason jar of peach/corn "amazing"....smoooother-er! as a late old freind at deer camp once said...that awoke the "how the hell did they do that?" in me.....Good luck with Otto, can't waite to hear your results.............Just Sayin'

[ozone39]

Turning out to be a difficult build, lots of small areas to solder....Basically still is done, condenser is the next hurdle...keep ya posted

[ozone39]

Condenser is done...next is the parrot....

[HookLine]

Nice.

[just sayin]

Beautiful job, OZ39! I am looking forward to hearing how she drives. You can hide that one in you front yard. "It is garden sculpture, Officer, what else would it be? "The artist named it 'Otto'."

[Tater]

.Very nice work

[cob]

every time i think i know somthing ozone39 makes a post that demonstrates to me the error of my thinking.

[wv_cooker]

Just when you think you have seen it all! Great looking rig Ozone, can't wait to here it's results.