CM Still Output Improvement Mods Mile High / Brewhaus PSII.

Vapor, Liquid or Cooling Management. Flutes, plates, etc.

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chickenfeed
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Re: CM Still Output Improvement Mods Mile High / Brewhaus PS

Post by chickenfeed »

Ok. Removed the pa Med column entirely and running a batch of apple juice. 3 4inch bubble plates.
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Re: CM Still Output Improvement Mods Mile High / Brewhaus PS

Post by chickenfeed »

Packed not pa med.
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Re: CM Still Output Improvement Mods Mile High / Brewhaus PS

Post by brat »

How did it perform?
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Re: CM Still Output Improvement Mods Mile High / Brewhaus PS

Post by chickenfeed »

brat wrote:How did it perform?
Great 6 hours instead od 8 to 10 on the 3x24 packed colmun heads and tails were very abrupt instead of 1.5 gal i got .75gal but at 75% instead of 55 to 60 once i blend and water it back to 40% i will have more final product let you know about taste later
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Re: CM Still Output Improvement Mods Mile High / Brewhaus PS

Post by brat »

chickenfeed wrote:
brat wrote:How did it perform?
Great 6 hours instead od 8 to 10 on the 3x24 packed colmun heads and tails were very abrupt instead of 1.5 gal i got .75gal but at 75% instead of 55 to 60 once i blend and water it back to 40% i will have more final product let you know about taste later
Sounds great!! Post a picture of your rig I would love to see it.
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Re: CM Still Output Improvement Mods Mile High / Brewhaus PS

Post by Alchemist75 »

I like my CM set up, it does well for me. I'm currently replacing my old dephlegmator but a couple design features on mine that might be unusual:
My latest dephlegmator (under construction) is 3/4" x 9" and employs not one, not two but 18 through condensers. Granted the condensers are only 1/8" but I figure 18 of them in a roughly 6 point arrangement will do the job nicely. The PC and RC are separated by a manifold an valve as suggested earlier. I don't employ a centering ring but what I did was sand out the inner rim of the reducer that joins the dephlegmator to the packed section. This allows the bottom of the dephlegmator to insert all the way through the reducer thus directing the reflux away from the sides and more to the center of the packing. With my original set up I was pulling about 94% from a packed area of only approx. 16" hight and I expect with the new dephlegmator I will get the same. The old design had flaws in the dephlegmator water feed so I had to rebuild it. I haven't tried other column designs as of yet so I only know CM but honestly if that's as far as it ever got I'd be happy with it. It gives consistent, quality product that runs off like clockwork, every time.
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Re: CM Still Output Improvement Mods Mile High / Brewhaus PS

Post by Sunshineer »

Edel wrote:
Prairiepiss wrote:
A wire welder can weld stainless. It's not the best tool for the job but will work. But you have to get the correct wire and gas for the job. You would be better off having someone tig it.
Yeah, that's probably what I'll have to do. It's just a cheap Craftsman welder and just wire, no gas. I do have a stick welder/generator at work but that might melt what I'm working on. Thanks PP.
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Re: CM Still Output Improvement Mods Mile High / Brewhaus PS

Post by tiramisu »

Nothing wrong with wireless MIG it's just a hot mess. If you clean up nicely afterward flux core will do just as good a job as gas. That said I would be much happier owning a MIG with GAS.
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Re: CM Still Output Improvement Mods Mile High / Brewhaus PS

Post by GCB3 »

This is such a great thread for those of us who are trying to figure out how to run a CM column! Thank you PP for taking the time to create this AND for responding to all of our questions in such a positive manner.

With the help of this thread, I feel like I have gained a lot insight into how to drive mine and the results are improving. Thanks again. You are truly THE MAN!!!
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Re: CM Still Output Improvement Mods Mile High / Brewhaus PS

Post by Brunojack »

I have a question. Does it make sense to add a needle valve between the Liebig and column on my CM still?

Reason I ask is, sometimes when I’m running trying to reach equilibrium at low heat and full cooling water to the column I get product coming out of the Liebig.
My thinking is that I could close off the flow of product to the product condenser and continue with equilibrium.
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Re: CM Still Output Improvement Mods Mile High / Brewhaus PS

Post by Brunojack »

I need to add that I have a 32" all copper column that has the cooling tubes towards the top in a criss cross pattern just below the connection to the liebig.

And that the cooling water is branched off. One valved line to the liebig and a branch to the column.
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Re: CM Still Output Improvement Mods Mile High / Brewhaus PSII.

Post by albertclifes »

Really informative thread and replies are also beneficial.
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Re: CM Still Output Improvement Mods Mile High / Brewhaus PSII.

Post by pocomabuono »

As first excuse me for my poor English ... I'm writing from Italy.
I am planning the construction of my first CM still and I was thinking about a coil dephlegmator, maintained at a predetermined temperature T.
So I found in this thread some confirmation on my ideas. Fantastic!
What I see critical is to cool the dephlegmator with cold water, even if inserted in small quantities.
So I'm thinking at a different but simple solution ...
Has anyone ever thought about this possibility?

A recycling circuit with an expansion vessel where I can introduce some cold water, which lowers a bit the temperature of the one that comes out from the dephlegmator?

A circuit which recycle water from the dephlegmator and an expansion vessel and a delivery pipe with a small liebig condenser whose cooling water?
Controlled by a thermostatic valve?

Pass the water through a fan-controlled heat sink?

Regarding the pump, use a cheap drill pump to turn the water slowly?
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Re: CM Still Output Improvement Mods Mile High / Brewhaus PSII.

Post by Snotskovl »

Hey all this info here is realy good i can only say big thx and will now try som of it ...
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Re: CM Still Output Improvement Mods Mile High / Brewhaus PSII.

Post by Euphoria »

For my 26 Gallon Boiler and 4" plated column set-up, I use a large plastic drum as a cooling water reservoir so I don't waste water, and I built a radiator core with a fan that I attached to it for cooling the hot return water flowing back to the reservoir tank. I have a submersible fountain pump in the reservoir tank which circulates the water through the still. I split my cooling water feed line into two separate lines. One feeds the Dephlegmator, which is controlled with a needle valve, (coolant enters in the bottom and out the top where I installed the needle valve,) and the other line feeds the condenser's cooling jacket. Each have separate control valves and work independent of each other, which gives me better control of each device. I run the flow in and out of my Dephlegmator sort of backwards, in that my coolant enters it closest to the product flow path, but it eliminates the chance of trapping air in a high spot in the Dephlegmator, which could make it run erratically.
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Re: CM Still Output Improvement Mods Mile High / Brewhaus PSII.

Post by Snotskovl »

Nice setup there u just gave me 1 idea how to cool the watter
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Re: CM Still Output Improvement Mods Mile High / Brewhaus PSII.

Post by outdoorplay »

Prairiepiss wrote: Sun Dec 18, 2011 5:22 pm CM Still Output Improvement Mods Mile High / Brewhaus PSII.

Speaking of packing. These commercial available stills come with two kinds of packing copper mesh and Ceramic Raschig Rings. Again this is only an observation on my part. I have no proof on this one. Would like some feed back on it from those that do. But it is my understanding if both types are used in the same column. The two different types will hamper the columns ability to equalize with a proper temp gradient. Since the copper mesh and the Ceramic Raschig Rings handle heat differently. The gradual temp gradient from bottom to the top will be broken with the change from one packing to the other. I'm not going to say one is better then the other. What I am trying to say is it is better to stick with one kind of packing throughout the whole column. And a little copper in the vapor path will help remove sulfides created during fermentation.


This information was comprised of info I have gathered from many different threads around HD. And some real world experimenting with my own CM still. I would like to thank all those that helped me learn all of this. But that is so many. So I will say Thank you to HD.

And feel free to point out other things I mite have missed or forgotten. I would like to update it so it is a one stop shop. For those that need it. Forgive my crappy paint pics. Its all i have to work with.

Mods I placed it here in the novice section because. I thought it should be available to the new members. And they would come across it easier here. If you think we need to move it that's fine.
That was a great read, and funny how much it matches some of the changes I am making to my still.

I bought the kit altogether, I babysit my run the whole time, and yes was making very fine-tuning on my water flow. I am at the point know of putting a split intake valve and separating the water flow so I can control the water jacket on the column more precisely

However, your information on using Copper mesh and Ceramic in the same column...
I don't know how true it is, as I am only one person and I only have my own personal data on running my own Sill, I have been running it now for a year.
So yes I am still a newbie. but, I am pulling some high proofing #'s.
My normal run runs between 190 and 196. I really do not know how I could be doing any better than that.

The changes I am making will make it easier to make more precise adjustments, but I don't see how I'm going to get any higher 95 to 98 ABV?

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Re: CM Still Output Improvement Mods Mile High / Brewhaus PSII.

Post by outdoorplay »

OK I have a question and I am asking it more to confirm what I am thinking.

I was thinking of adding a sight glass at the bottom of my column.

what are your thoughts on that?
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Re: CM Still Output Improvement Mods Mile High / Brewhaus PSII.

Post by chickenfeed »

I now have gone from 3 to 2 4 inc bubble plates. The milk can then a 3-4 inch reducer to accommodate the 2 4 inch sight glasses. The another reducer and then the still-head which is a reflux head and liebig condenser in one. I added a needle valve to control the water to he head. I let it warm up on full reflux for about an hour balancing the heat input and the reflux to compress the heads and then slowly reduce the reflux and take off the heads. I then reduce the reflux to where I am just running the 2 plates and the product condenser. I collect down to about 50% then when the tails show up turn up the heat as high as I can to recover the tails for feints later. This set up produces good flavor for brandy or whisky. I can get about 90-91% in full reflux but the packed column would probably be better for that but I just do not make a neutral spirit. Most all of what I make is destined for an oak barrel
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Re: CM Still Output Improvement Mods Mile High / Brewhaus PSII.

Post by outdoorplay »

do you think going to the bigger sight glass is working better for you?

I keep mine the same size as my column, I don't want to change much as it's running so good I did not want to mess with it. I'm namely getting 95% and my best was 98%
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Re: CM Still Output Improvement Mods Mile High / Brewhaus PSII.

Post by chickenfeed »

I’m trying for 75% or so for the flavor. That’s what’s great about this. If your going for neutral then your doing great
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Re: CM Still Output Improvement Mods Mile High / Brewhaus PSII.

Post by Saltbush Bill »

outdoorplay wrote: Tue Dec 22, 2020 12:02 pm and my best was 98%
Sorry but thats not possible, 95.6 is the azeotrope of ethanol.
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Re: CM Still Output Improvement Mods Mile High / Brewhaus PSII.

Post by outdoorplay »

KIMG0261.jpg
well my eyes are not that good but so this is the best I can get :D
got another batch tomorrow
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Re: CM Still Output Improvement Mods Mile High / Brewhaus PSII.

Post by outdoorplay »

chickenfeed wrote: Wed Dec 23, 2020 5:23 am I’m trying for 75% or so for the flavor. That’s what’s great about this. If your going for neutral then your doing great
yes I at this point am only going for Neutral,

I like to make flavored drinks, that I dumb down to 20% to 30% "basically a drink in a bottle
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Re: CM Still Output Improvement Mods Mile High / Brewhaus PSII.

Post by OldSmitty »

What collection rates are you guys using with this still head for stripping, pot still spirit, and reflux spirit runs?

I did a stripping run with a 6 gallon wash in a keg today and propane burner. With the brewhaus pump and about 60F water, my output was 120F and maybe about 3 quarts per hour?

Should I use a slower collection rate? Do I need to use ice water as per their manual?

It seems like the condenser is too short as my water only went up 18F but distillate is too hot (read somewhere under 100F is recommended, please correct me if this is not true).

Edit: should say this is regarding the Brewhaus PSI.
Edit 2: found some answers and details on this thread: https://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtop ... 9#p6947927
Last edited by OldSmitty on Mon Mar 08, 2021 7:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: CM Still Output Improvement Mods Mile High / Brewhaus PSII.

Post by Deplorable »

You're running it too fast for the condenser. That, is why I tossed my "dual purpose still" head and condenser in the recycle box. To run that thing slow enough to not burn through ice water at an alarming rate, you're not gonna get more than about 2 qts an hour.
Plan accordingly, or build a proper rig that will get through a hobby sized run in decent time.
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Re: CM Still Output Improvement Mods Mile High / Brewhaus PSII.

Post by Saltbush Bill »

Deplorable wrote: Sun Mar 07, 2021 5:18 pm That, is why I tossed my "dual purpose still" head and condenser in the recycle box.
Good to see you saw the light Deplorable.
These types of stills where outdated ten years ago .....The places that make them do so because they are simple and cheap to build and they can sell them at an attractive price to those who know no better. The duel purpose tag makes them look even more attractive.
These types of stills are why people moved on to making LM's and VM's, more fiddly to build but a whole lot easier to run with better results.
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Re: CM Still Output Improvement Mods Mile High / Brewhaus PSII.

Post by Deplorable »

Saltbush Bill wrote: Sun Mar 07, 2021 6:54 pm
Deplorable wrote: Sun Mar 07, 2021 5:18 pm That, is why I tossed my "dual purpose still" head and condenser in the recycle box.
Good to see you saw the light Deplorable.
These types of stills where outdated ten years ago .....The places that make them do so because they are simple and cheap to build and they can sell them at an attractive price to those who know no better. The duel purpose tag makes them look even more attractive. These types of stills are why people moved on to making LM's and VM's, more fiddly to build but a whole lot easier to run with better results.
For the price one pays for these, it's just a few more dollars to build a proper CCVM kit. But, like you said, for folks who don't know what they don't know, there is some allure in the dual purpose tag.
If only I'd come across this site three months earlier than I did, I'd have built my 2" CCVM kit to begin with. (Still would have bought a milk can though)
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Re: CM Still Output Improvement Mods Mile High / Brewhaus PSII.

Post by OldSmitty »

Deplorable wrote: Sun Mar 07, 2021 5:18 pm You're running it too fast for the condenser. That, is why I tossed my "dual purpose still" head and condenser in the recycle box. To run that thing slow enough to not burn through ice water at an alarming rate, you're not gonna get more than about 2 qts an hour.
Plan accordingly, or build a proper rig that will get through a hobby sized run in decent time.
Thanks for the candid feedback. Alarming rate of ice water is right.

It takes 540cal/g to knock water vapor to liquid. It takes 80cal/g to melt ice into water. Therefore it takes 6.75x as much ice for the same volume of water just to change the state of matter. For a modest 2 gallons of distillate, it would take 13.5 gallons of ice just to condense. Granted ethanol does take less energy to do all of this, but you're still fighting efficiency issues such as the pump generating heat, ambient temps, sun, etc. All these numbers make me go :crazy: even for just a back of the envelope calculation.

If anyone has feedback on run rates on spirit runs, I would still like to hear what's worked for you.

Sadly, I'm thinking running this thing in summer when water temps hits 80f may be mission impossible.
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Re: CM Still Output Improvement Mods Mile High / Brewhaus PSII.

Post by Deplorable »

Smitty, I've come to the conclusion that for myself it's just easier to run cooling water to waste from the tap. Many here have somewhat elaborate recirculating systems with radiators and fans to keep a 50 gallon drum of condenser water cool enough to make it through a run.
If I had the space for such an elaborate set up, I'd do the same thing.
Another option for you is to cut off that inefficient liebig, and build a nice copper one that will transfer the heat better and reduce overall water consumption.
I did this and ran it briefly for a few runs before building a completely different still. It improved my run times by almost a third and reduced water consumption a bit as well.
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