CM Still Output Improvement Mods Mile High / Brewhaus PSII.

Vapor, Liquid or Cooling Management. Flutes, plates, etc.

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Re: CM Still Output Improvement Mods Mile High / Brewhaus PS

Post by tom sawyer » Mon Jul 06, 2015 5:14 am

I finally had a successful run in reflux mode. It boiled down to lowering the takeoff rate to about 1 qt per 3hr. The takeoff temp stayed at the expected 78C during nearly the entire run. I then proceeded to screw up the finished product by including a jar of headsy stuff with the other six good quarts, so I'll get to practice some more.

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Re: CM Still Output Improvement Mods Mile High / Brewhaus PS

Post by Lairdy83 » Wed Oct 07, 2015 2:55 pm

Is there a preference over having the through tubes in line or criss cross? im putting 4 in. Also at first i thought the centering ring was a good idea but now ive seen a few of you say that its not worth it, i dont know what to do anymore, put one in or not. If i dont would it be better to put a slight kink in the thru tubes to at least direct the condensed liqid back down the centre a bit more?

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Re: CM Still Output Improvement Mods Mile High / Brewhaus PS

Post by DAD300 » Wed Oct 07, 2015 3:47 pm

No centering ring it only increases vapor speed and add a scrubbie or some mesh atop the tubes. It will give them more cooling effectiveness.
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Re: CM Still Output Improvement Mods Mile High / Brewhaus PS

Post by Lairdy83 » Wed Oct 07, 2015 3:55 pm

Great thanks DAD300,

what do you think about the thru tubes? inline or criss cross?

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Re: CM Still Output Improvement Mods Mile High / Brewhaus PS

Post by rad14701 » Wed Oct 07, 2015 4:18 pm

Preferably, a column without through tubes at all as that is a relatively inefficient design... But if choosing, criss cross...

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Re: CM Still Output Improvement Mods Mile High / Brewhaus PS

Post by Lairdy83 » Wed Oct 07, 2015 7:06 pm

Cheers rad14701, Yeah that's the general consensus I have been reading, but as I have already made the build plan and bought the material, I thought I would go ahead with it to try it out see what I can produce and then further on down the track ill try something else. Im keen to try and build a Boka

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Re: CM Still Output Improvement Mods Mile High / Brewhaus PS

Post by T-Pee » Wed Oct 07, 2015 8:11 pm

Since you are in the planning process, forget the cross tubes and use either an external reflux coil or an internal coldfinger both of which can be seen in my sig link thread.

tp

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Re: CM Still Output Improvement Mods Mile High / Brewhaus PS

Post by Lairdy83 » Wed Oct 07, 2015 10:59 pm

Cheers T-Pee,

Why do the external reflux coils work better then the through tubes? wouldnt vapour escape up the centre of the column without getting condensed?
A cold finger is just a peice of pipe with water flowing through it that hangs down the middle of the column is that right?? so with a 2" column what size cold finger would you recommend?

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Re: CM Still Output Improvement Mods Mile High / Brewhaus PS

Post by firewater69 » Thu Oct 08, 2015 8:17 am

T-Pee wrote:Since you are in the planning process, forget the cross tubes and use either an external reflux coil or an internal coldfinger both of which can be seen in my sig link thread.

tp
+1, my coil is 3/8, but eventually I'll make a 1/2 coil
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Re: CM Still Output Improvement Mods Mile High / Brewhaus PS

Post by rad14701 » Thu Oct 08, 2015 1:19 pm

Check out torpedoes as well... That's what Lairdy83 was referring to... At least one vendor offers CM's that utilize a torpedo reflux condenser...

Another option is the external jacket which works the same as an external coil... Kinda like a mid-column liebig configuration...

Through tubes of any configuration would be my last choice...

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Re: CM Still Output Improvement Mods Mile High / Brewhaus PS

Post by T-Pee » Fri Oct 09, 2015 8:49 am

Lairdy83 wrote:Cheers T-Pee,

Why do the external reflux coils work better then the through tubes? wouldnt vapour escape up the centre of the column without getting condensed?
Not if there is packing of some sort where the coil is.
A cold finger is just a peice of pipe with water flowing through it that hangs down the middle of the column is that right?? so with a 2" column what size cold finger would you recommend?
I'd make it 1.5" giving the vapor 1/4" around to pass by. My column is 1.5" and I use a 1" finger. Stops vapors cold in their tracks. (Pun intended.)

tp

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Re: CM Still Output Improvement Mods Mile High / Brewhaus PS

Post by raketemensch » Tue Oct 13, 2015 3:37 pm

Also do a search for dad300's corrugated gas line coil -- it's far faster and easier to build than a copper one, and very effective.

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Re: CM Still Output Improvement Mods Mile High / Brewhaus PS

Post by Patching246 » Wed Oct 14, 2015 4:56 pm

I'm getting ready to make ALL of these modifications to my CM still. My first few months of running have been done with little more than some insulation. Time to upgrade...so I returned to this thread and read all 11 pages in detail.

It has raised a couple of questions:

1. In the UK, they don't seem to have heard of needle valves. All I can find is ball valves, check valves and gate valves. Which will offer me the fine tuning I need for reflux? If you want to take a look at the standard options, http://screwfix.co.uk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow will give you an idea of what I'm working with.

2. I also am not sure what size reducer I need for the collection tubing. I was planning on using a brass reducer and then hooking it up to some flexible copper pipe. Again, can anyone point me to equivalent connector here in the UK?

3. Finally, I was going to use this as a reducer http://www.nero.co.uk/catalogue/product ... c146eb5951" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow It says it is stainless steel (although in the image it looks more like concrete!) With a 2" column is it easier to go for the 2" reducer and force it in or go for the 1.5" and bend it out?

I think those are all my questions. Thanks guys. You really are the most generous founts of knowledge (and occasionally... much needed discipline). Appreciate the help.
John 2:1-11. Jesus saith unto them, 'Fill the waterpots with water, some sugar & tomato paste'. And they filled them up to the brim and Jesus transformed them into low wines and this manifested forth his glory; and his disciples believed on him.

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Re: CM Still Output Improvement Mods Mile High / Brewhaus PS

Post by still_stirrin » Wed Oct 14, 2015 7:59 pm

Patching246 wrote:I'm getting ready to make ALL of these modifications to my CM still. My first few months of running have been done with little more than some insulation. Time to upgrade...so I returned to this thread and read all 11 pages in detail.

It has raised a couple of questions:

1. In the UK, they don't seem to have heard of needle valves. All I can find is ball valves, check valves and gate valves. Which will offer me the fine tuning I need for reflux? If you want to take a look at the standard options, http://screwfix.co.uk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow will give you an idea of what I'm working with.
I think this one would work... http://www.thehosemaster.co.uk/needle-valves-stainless" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow Pricey though.
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Re: CM Still Output Improvement Mods Mile High / Brewhaus PS

Post by still_stirrin » Wed Oct 14, 2015 8:08 pm

Here's a valve a bit more reasonably priced: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Nickel-Plated ... 0789376853" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

The bottomline is that they do exist...and you can find them...if you look.
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Re: CM Still Output Improvement Mods Mile High / Brewhaus PS

Post by Patching246 » Thu Oct 15, 2015 2:00 am

still_stirrin wrote: I think this one would work... http://www.thehosemaster.co.uk/needle-valves-stainless" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow Pricey though.
Thanks still_stirin - that's crazy money for a valve.
still_stirrin wrote:...and you can find them...if you look.
ss
That's a Chinese manufacturer and they don't ship to the UK. I did look... and found very little, which is why I thought perhaps they just existed under a different name here.
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Re: CM Still Output Improvement Mods Mile High / Brewhaus PS

Post by Patching246 » Thu Oct 15, 2015 7:38 am

Also, reading about the differences between the two CM models... and it occurred to me that it would be quite straight forward to add a reflux jacket to my brewhaus still, in the form of a coiled copper pipe on the outside of the column. Is there a reason why this wouldn't help with reflux? I find it quite hard to achieve total reflux, although I have not split my water inlets yet so this may change. Just a thought.
John 2:1-11. Jesus saith unto them, 'Fill the waterpots with water, some sugar & tomato paste'. And they filled them up to the brim and Jesus transformed them into low wines and this manifested forth his glory; and his disciples believed on him.

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Re: CM Still Output Improvement Mods Mile High / Brewhaus PS

Post by firewater69 » Thu Oct 15, 2015 8:22 am

the external coil works well depending on the size of it and of course water temps also play a big roll. mine is made from 3/8" and when I build another it will be made from 1/2" for more knock down power. and I run separate water tanks for my pc and rc.
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Re: CM Still Output Improvement Mods Mile High / Brewhaus PS

Post by Patching246 » Thu Oct 15, 2015 11:28 am

That's awesome firewater. I have an old wort chiller knocking around that could easily be repurposed for this. The only problem is, that because I have a column with the tubes that also pass through the vapour, I'll have twice as many valves to control. However, it might be helpful just to help me get up to total reflux and then I can power the jacket down.
John 2:1-11. Jesus saith unto them, 'Fill the waterpots with water, some sugar & tomato paste'. And they filled them up to the brim and Jesus transformed them into low wines and this manifested forth his glory; and his disciples believed on him.

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Re: CM Still Output Improvement Mods Mile High / Brewhaus PS

Post by T-Pee » Thu Oct 15, 2015 3:23 pm

Just vacate the pass though tubes and use an external coil. You won't need them.

tp

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Re: CM Still Output Improvement Mods Mile High / Brewhaus PS

Post by rad14701 » Fri Oct 16, 2015 6:32 am

Patching246, some members here would recommend not adding centering rings... You might want to consider skipping that modification, leaving it as a "potential" future modification once you see how much improvement the other modifications provide...

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Re: CM Still Output Improvement Mods Mile High / Brewhaus PS

Post by Patching246 » Fri Oct 16, 2015 1:26 pm

rad14701 wrote:Patching246, some members here would recommend not adding centering rings... You might want to consider skipping that modification, leaving it as a "potential" future modification once you see how much improvement the other modifications provide...
Thanks for the suggestion. I may well do that. I've got a chap building me a 12" extension to get it up to 60". I have the brewhaus gin series. It comes with an extra 6" column for packing with botanicals, however I was just going to use it to extend the column a bit more why I'm waiting on my mod. I assume I put it below the reflux condensers?
John 2:1-11. Jesus saith unto them, 'Fill the waterpots with water, some sugar & tomato paste'. And they filled them up to the brim and Jesus transformed them into low wines and this manifested forth his glory; and his disciples believed on him.

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Re: CM Still Output Improvement Mods Mile High / Brewhaus PS

Post by Patching246 » Mon Oct 19, 2015 4:13 am

firewater69 wrote:the external coil works well depending on the size of it and of course water temps also play a big roll. mine is made from 3/8" and when I build another it will be made from 1/2" for more knock down power. and I run separate water tanks for my pc and rc.
The attachment IMG_20141126_214315.jpg is no longer available
I need some (more) advice. My welding pal has knocked me up a copper extension (picture attached).
DSCF2514.JPG
I was just going to use it to extend the column, but then the external cooling jacket idea came up. I can't wrap a coil where the current inlets are for the cross tubes. Not only would it look messy, but I don't think it would effective as it wouldn't cover enough surface area. So I was thinking of wrapping the coil around my shorter 6" gin column extension and putting it up top. Despite being told I can just bypass the through tubes, I want to be able to use them both (I will call this 'Reflux MAX'). I've attached a photoshop mock up of my idea.
Untitled-3.jpg
So my questions are as follows:
Will the total reflux area on a 6ft column be too long with both the tubes and the coil. The total area above and below the reflux stage will be the same - but there will be a much wider area of reflux (apologies if my terminology is all over the place)

Will 5 inches of coil have any significant impact?

With both my new extension and the gin extension, I will 6" longer than the OP's suggested height for a 2" column. Will I suffer any consequences?

Thanks.
John 2:1-11. Jesus saith unto them, 'Fill the waterpots with water, some sugar & tomato paste'. And they filled them up to the brim and Jesus transformed them into low wines and this manifested forth his glory; and his disciples believed on him.

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Re: CM Still Output Improvement Mods Mile High / Brewhaus PS

Post by firewater69 » Mon Oct 19, 2015 5:00 am

one problem you will face is wrapping the coil, the o.d. of my column is 2.125" so I wrapped my coil around a piece of 2.00 material because as you wrap copper around a pipe it will spring out and fit too loose, however if you wrap it around a smaller 2.00" diameter when it springs out it will fit tight on the 2.125" diameter and be more efficient. as far as column height, that's up to you. if your trying to make a neutral, a boka would be a better choice imo. my still head (pictured above) is 16" tall, I also have a 12" extension all fitted with tri-clamps now, and I can achieve up to 92% on a charge of low wines collecting at a medium paced drip, but it still has a ton of flavor, which is also why I love the cm. also you may find 5" of coil is on the small side depending on what size you build it from and how fast you want to run.
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Re: CM Still Output Improvement Mods Mile High / Brewhaus PS

Post by rad14701 » Tue Oct 20, 2015 1:12 pm

If you think you need more cooling there are options... You could run your coolant down through the wound section and then through the cross tubes... You could cut and grind the cross tubes flush with the column and wind copper around that section... Or . . . . :idea:

Think outside the box... :ewink:

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Re: CM Still Output Improvement Mods Mile High / Brewhaus PS

Post by Patching246 » Tue Oct 20, 2015 3:15 pm

rad14701 wrote:If you think you need more cooling there are options... You could run your coolant down through the wound section and then through the cross tubes... You could cut and grind the cross tubes flush with the column and wind copper around that section... Or . . . . :idea:

Think outside the box... :ewink:
I thought I was :problem:
John 2:1-11. Jesus saith unto them, 'Fill the waterpots with water, some sugar & tomato paste'. And they filled them up to the brim and Jesus transformed them into low wines and this manifested forth his glory; and his disciples believed on him.

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Re: CM Still Output Improvement Mods Mile High / Brewhaus PS

Post by chickenfeed » Tue Aug 15, 2017 4:59 pm

I am so glad that I found this thread I think after nearly a year I finally got mine working the way it supposed to now I'm just going to add a couple of bubble plate sections Underneath the packed column and see how that works

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Re: CM Still Output Improvement Mods Mile High / Brewhaus PS

Post by brat » Wed Aug 16, 2017 8:25 pm

Here is what a did you my still. I got to do a cleaning run again since I welded on a ferrule to get rid of that rubber bung. I can't wait to see how it runs with the plate and packing.
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Re: CM Still Output Improvement Mods Mile High / Brewhaus PS

Post by chickenfeed » Thu Aug 17, 2017 2:22 am

Waiting on parts but that is exactly what I am doing. Except 3 plates. Let me know how it works.

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Re: CM Still Output Improvement Mods Mile High / Brewhaus PS

Post by brat » Thu Aug 17, 2017 5:45 am

3 plates wow might as well put together a whole other column lol. Yeah as soon as I run it I'll give some feedback. I bet it's going to be like driving a whole new rig.

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