I have one of these lab stills, made for distilled water:
http://www.jenconsusa.com/10-Water-Stil ... -110V.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
It is not new, but it is functional. (I also didn't pay $1000 for it either, which is what they cost new. Mine was free.)
The pot holds about a gallon and has an 240V coil in it. I put a 110V plug on and used a router speed controller to set the heat - works fine that way. The condenser has an inner tube, about 10" long, that brings the vapor up to the top of the condenser, so that the vapor is going down over the coils. The coils are about 1/4" diameter and are set up in a double layer. When it is simmering in the pot and the distillate is flowing the top of the dome is hot, but the outside of the condenser is cold about half-way down.
I know the thing works. My question is will it work like a pot-still or a reflux still? I'm wondering if I should count on always doing a double pass through the still or can I get away with doing just one slow run.
Maybe I should get some cheap stuff from the liquor store and dilute it down to a known concentration, say 10%, and try that as an experiment. If it can go from 10% to 80% in one pass it is working like a reflux still, isn't it? Or is that not the only consideration?
how well will this work?
Moderator: Site Moderator
-
HolyBear
- Site Donor
- Posts: 1600
- Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2012 3:23 am
- Location: Prolly diggin through Dnders posts
Re: how well will this work?
How much reading have you done here on the site? It appears to have lots of plastics... Also, from one gallon of wash/mash, after cuts, you'll be lucky to have a shot glass full...
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin
Re: how well will this work?
The boiler pot is stainless steel and the condenser is glass.
I've read the FAQ, the wiki, and some of the threads. Just downloaded a bunch of e-books, too. Total noob to the hobby. On the other hand, my degree is in chemistry, so I get how distillation works.
I've read the FAQ, the wiki, and some of the threads. Just downloaded a bunch of e-books, too. Total noob to the hobby. On the other hand, my degree is in chemistry, so I get how distillation works.
Re: how well will this work?
Looks like a penis pump mounted to a crock pot. make sure you buy new !
seriously though, looks like the take off tubes are plastic. Glass is generally stayed away from due to breakability with high proof alcohol. And it looks kind of small for anything but a water rig. Probably get you a couple days of h2o in an emergency....If you have power.benton wrote:The boiler pot is stainless steel and the condenser is glass.
Anything i do or say here is purely hypothetical and for information gathering and sharing purposes only.
Re: how well will this work?
Will it work? Yes.
Will it be safe to consume the product? Possibly not. That looks super cool, but those tubes look like vinyl, or some other flexible tubing. You can use your chemistry knowledge, I'm sure, to figure out if the interaction between hot alcohol vapor will break down the materials in the hoses.
Additionally, as already mentioned, you would get a very small amount of product from it.
Will it be safe to consume the product? Possibly not. That looks super cool, but those tubes look like vinyl, or some other flexible tubing. You can use your chemistry knowledge, I'm sure, to figure out if the interaction between hot alcohol vapor will break down the materials in the hoses.
Additionally, as already mentioned, you would get a very small amount of product from it.
Re: how well will this work?
I see what you mean now. The hoses are silicone rubber. They are rigged up to continuously feed fresh water into the pot so that you don't have to keep refilling it - that is probably how they get an output of 60L/hour with a 4L pot.
I took all the hoses off of the pot so that I can fill it batch-wise. The cooling water flows through silicone hoses, but that is certainly not a problem. I am still using a silicone hose to direct the distillate into a jar, so that might be a concern. It is room temperature coming out of the column, which helps prevent leaching bad stuff.
I'll look into what happens to silicone rubber in contact with alcohol.
I took all the hoses off of the pot so that I can fill it batch-wise. The cooling water flows through silicone hoses, but that is certainly not a problem. I am still using a silicone hose to direct the distillate into a jar, so that might be a concern. It is room temperature coming out of the column, which helps prevent leaching bad stuff.
I'll look into what happens to silicone rubber in contact with alcohol.
Re: how well will this work?
Here is what Cole-Parmer has to say about chemical compatability: http://www.coleparmer.com/Chemical-Resi ... OgodITwAZA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow
Silicone rubber is listed as a good choice with alcohol - not excellent, because it might discolor, but good. Breweries use silicone to move hot wort around, so it can't be that bad. Of course wort has no alcohol. Maybe I will just rig up a piece of copper with a flare on the end of it. That way the condenser will just drip from glass into copper.
At any rate, I did run some tests this weekend -- the results were pretty good. On the other hand the pot turned out to be just 3 qts filled to overflowing, smaller than I thought. I don't have a hydrometer, but I do have an balance that is good to 0.01 g and a 50.00 mL pipet good to 0.05 mL. I just weighed a 50 mL sample, calculated the density, and looked up the wt % and ABV in a table.
Test 1 -- Charge: Geogia Moon (cheap white whiskey) diluted to 10% ABV, total volume 2 quarts. First several ounces were in the 63-60% range. I don't know what tails taste like, but someone posted that GM tastes like tails. The "GM flavor" was missing from the first several samples I took. In all I collected six cuts and the last two were 25 and 15 ABV - they had the GM taste, or worse. The stuff left in the pot smelled strange - like jasmine or honeysuckle, some sort of flower.
Test 2 -- Charge: GM diluted to 35% ABV, 2 quarts. First two ounces, 83% ABV. Next eighteen ounces were near 80%, then two ounces of 70%. I turned up the heat from medium to full power after this to collect the last 12 oz, but I didn't measure the ABV. The final result was 20 oz of 76.4% stuff that tasted mostly sweet to me. I diluted it to 119 proof with distilled water and put it up to age. The last 12 oz didn't taste all that bad up front, but it left a gross aftertaste.
It seems like it works pretty good. What do you think?
Silicone rubber is listed as a good choice with alcohol - not excellent, because it might discolor, but good. Breweries use silicone to move hot wort around, so it can't be that bad. Of course wort has no alcohol. Maybe I will just rig up a piece of copper with a flare on the end of it. That way the condenser will just drip from glass into copper.
At any rate, I did run some tests this weekend -- the results were pretty good. On the other hand the pot turned out to be just 3 qts filled to overflowing, smaller than I thought. I don't have a hydrometer, but I do have an balance that is good to 0.01 g and a 50.00 mL pipet good to 0.05 mL. I just weighed a 50 mL sample, calculated the density, and looked up the wt % and ABV in a table.
Test 1 -- Charge: Geogia Moon (cheap white whiskey) diluted to 10% ABV, total volume 2 quarts. First several ounces were in the 63-60% range. I don't know what tails taste like, but someone posted that GM tastes like tails. The "GM flavor" was missing from the first several samples I took. In all I collected six cuts and the last two were 25 and 15 ABV - they had the GM taste, or worse. The stuff left in the pot smelled strange - like jasmine or honeysuckle, some sort of flower.
Test 2 -- Charge: GM diluted to 35% ABV, 2 quarts. First two ounces, 83% ABV. Next eighteen ounces were near 80%, then two ounces of 70%. I turned up the heat from medium to full power after this to collect the last 12 oz, but I didn't measure the ABV. The final result was 20 oz of 76.4% stuff that tasted mostly sweet to me. I diluted it to 119 proof with distilled water and put it up to age. The last 12 oz didn't taste all that bad up front, but it left a gross aftertaste.
It seems like it works pretty good. What do you think?
-
newbyprepper1970
- Novice
- Posts: 57
- Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2013 8:56 am
- Location: approx, 40.14 79.0?
Re: how well will this work?
Mr.Brown wrote:Looks like a penis pump mounted to a crock pot. make sure you buy new !
seriously though, looks like the take off tubes are plastic. Glass is generally stayed away from due to breakability with high proof alcohol. And it looks kind of small for anything but a water rig. Probably get you a couple days of h2o in an emergency....If you have power.benton wrote:The boiler pot is stainless steel and the condenser is glass.
BAHAHAHAHAHahahahaha penis pump .... that is funny i never saw a penis pump i heard of that of course but you are kinda giving a rather personal bit of detail to where your perspectives come from arent you? hahahah
however it apears to have plastics in it and i agree thats not gonna give you safe or tasty booze.... WOW
If it smells like fish Wash it!!!
Re: how well will this work?
I honestly don't think anyone here is going to agree with your idea that this piece of equipment is worthy of making potable spirits... I'd scrap it if you have already purchased it and get serious about the hobby... We take the hobby and safety seriously and expect every new member to do the same... You can, and should, do better... 
I will refer you to The Rules We Live By, linked in the forum header, and suggest paying special attention to Rule #8...
I will refer you to The Rules We Live By, linked in the forum header, and suggest paying special attention to Rule #8...
Re: how well will this work?
What's the big deal? He said it's stainless steel and glass. The only silicone part is the take-off tube, which can be replaced with a funnel made with safe materials (copper).
It obviously works, it just makes small batches. Good for refining a recipe, then move on up and build a bigger still that makes more than 20 oz.
It obviously works, it just makes small batches. Good for refining a recipe, then move on up and build a bigger still that makes more than 20 oz.
Re: how well will this work?
Rule #8 -- avoid religious flame war
Got it. Sorry I started the topic.
On the other hand, my original question was about the performance of the condenser. Will it have the separation characteristics of a simple pot still or would you expect enough reflux to improve the separation noticeably?
I hoped that someone would look at the two experiments and tell me if that is what you would expect to get out of a pot still. The first experiment was supposed to be similar to a stripping run, the second was like a spirit run.
Honestly, I'm not that interested in the distillation part of the process. As I understand it, most of the flavor in bourbon comes from the oaking. I want to see if I can do the aging process right if that is the most important step. I've already got a full set of gear for making all-grain beer in five gallon batches, so that is not a problem if it comes to that. I want to get to the part that I'm not sure I can do yet. If I could buy good quality 120 corn/malt white whiskey at the ABC store I would, then I could age it myself to see how it comes out.
Got it. Sorry I started the topic.
On the other hand, my original question was about the performance of the condenser. Will it have the separation characteristics of a simple pot still or would you expect enough reflux to improve the separation noticeably?
I hoped that someone would look at the two experiments and tell me if that is what you would expect to get out of a pot still. The first experiment was supposed to be similar to a stripping run, the second was like a spirit run.
Honestly, I'm not that interested in the distillation part of the process. As I understand it, most of the flavor in bourbon comes from the oaking. I want to see if I can do the aging process right if that is the most important step. I've already got a full set of gear for making all-grain beer in five gallon batches, so that is not a problem if it comes to that. I want to get to the part that I'm not sure I can do yet. If I could buy good quality 120 corn/malt white whiskey at the ABC store I would, then I could age it myself to see how it comes out.
-
ohyeahyeah
- Swill Maker
- Posts: 163
- Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2012 7:53 pm
Re: how well will this work?
Judging by the picture it will function as a pot still.
The saying about bourbon getting most of its flavour from oak aging is a bit of a misnomer. If you make all grain following a bourbon mash grain bill you will experience a full flavoured distilate with many of bourbons flavours recognizable. I think its more fair to say what distinguishes bourbon from other whiskey types is its oak flavours. Bourbon requires aging in NEW full char barrels. Most quality bourbon is aged between 6-10 years. Other whiskeys such as Canadian, Irish and Scotch all age in oak barrels, but no specific toast is required and new barrels are not specified. Canadian for example will age flavouring whiskeys(bourbon type and rye) in new oak barrels or once used bourbon barrels. Base whiskeys(usually corn but can be wheat or rye) are aged in once used bourbon barrels or refill used barrels. Barrels get retired after about 20 years of use.
A new full char barrel is going to give the greatest amount of oak impact to the finished product and part of what makes bourbon, bourbon. But its certainly not the majority of the flavour of the end product. Otherwise they wouldnt limit new make to come off the still under 80%.
For me aging is the most difficult part. I have tried oak staves with a few different distillates. It seemed to improve my malt whisky but i didn't like what it did to my bourbon. Too many missing elements that i beleive can only be accomplished through true aging.
I know some people claim micro aging speeds things up through increase surface contact but from what i have read their are chemical reactions involved including the break down of certain esters that simply takes years to happen. So argueably the increased surface contact of micro aging could distort the balance of flavours by leading to a distilate that has absorbed too much of some flavours before others are able to be produced.
Just some rambling thoughts.
The saying about bourbon getting most of its flavour from oak aging is a bit of a misnomer. If you make all grain following a bourbon mash grain bill you will experience a full flavoured distilate with many of bourbons flavours recognizable. I think its more fair to say what distinguishes bourbon from other whiskey types is its oak flavours. Bourbon requires aging in NEW full char barrels. Most quality bourbon is aged between 6-10 years. Other whiskeys such as Canadian, Irish and Scotch all age in oak barrels, but no specific toast is required and new barrels are not specified. Canadian for example will age flavouring whiskeys(bourbon type and rye) in new oak barrels or once used bourbon barrels. Base whiskeys(usually corn but can be wheat or rye) are aged in once used bourbon barrels or refill used barrels. Barrels get retired after about 20 years of use.
A new full char barrel is going to give the greatest amount of oak impact to the finished product and part of what makes bourbon, bourbon. But its certainly not the majority of the flavour of the end product. Otherwise they wouldnt limit new make to come off the still under 80%.
For me aging is the most difficult part. I have tried oak staves with a few different distillates. It seemed to improve my malt whisky but i didn't like what it did to my bourbon. Too many missing elements that i beleive can only be accomplished through true aging.
I know some people claim micro aging speeds things up through increase surface contact but from what i have read their are chemical reactions involved including the break down of certain esters that simply takes years to happen. So argueably the increased surface contact of micro aging could distort the balance of flavours by leading to a distilate that has absorbed too much of some flavours before others are able to be produced.
Just some rambling thoughts.