Critique my hybrid still plan

[BigSwede]

Having a tough time deciding whether to pursue basic liquid management or vapor management, I thought, "Why not have both?" This near exact still has probably already been done - there's little new in this hobby.

Please excuse my crude drawing. The basics - 1 meter 2" copper column packed with something, haven't decided yet. Probably copper scrubs to start. Topping that are assemblies that can be included or excluded at whim. Each assembly is fitted with a typical 2" sankey, so the thing can be put together and taken apart with ease.

Section 'B' is a vapor management assembly, using a 2" Tee through a big stainless gate valve, with vapors routed to a product condenser. Section 'A' is a Bok-style slant plate rig, which can be made very short, probably 8" or so. It will have a collection needle valve and probably a small liebig to cool the condensate.

Topping it all is a shotgun condenser for reflux.

With all the components in place, I should have a VM still with the slant plates being used to draw foreshots. Or, with the gate valve closed, the entire still is basically a slant plate Bok. Can I pack section 'B' with scrubs and still retain VM when desired?

And of course, by removing section 'A', I have a pure VM rig.

Am I blowing smoke with this one? It's going to take a lot of soldering of sankey ferrules, but I like the notion of being able to play with differing configurations.

[DAD300]

Well, yes and no...with the removable sections you could try either LM or VM by exchanging sections.

Why you would want to is the question. You can collect at drops per second with the proper VM if neutral is your goal.

If you pack section "B" you'll have to remove it and unpack it for VM operation.

I'd say build both if you need to try both...use "A" and "B" interchangeably, but not together.

The modular design is a great idea...wanting to use both in a single run is a cluster.

[BigSwede]

Thanks Dad - I read somewhere on this forum that a couple of guys had installed slant plates in an otherwise pure VM setup and used them to collect foreshots. If they are in there, I couldn't see any reason why the whole apparatus couldn't be used in an LM fashion.

I started like most noobs with the thought that "I'll build a Bok and be done." But VM appeals to me.

My goals are a little of everything. I like neutrals, adore a good rum - there's very little on the U.S. market that compares to what I've found in Central America and the Caribbean, via smaller niche distilleries - and want to experiment with grains as well. Somewhere in this journey, I'll set up for pot stilling, which could be used with the VM section so long as it's capped with a pressure relief valve... otherwise, valve closed = BOOM. But I suspect I'll create a dedicated pot still section for rums and whiskies.

Anyway, being modular, I can eliminate portions of it. Any other suggestions or criticisms, I'd love to hear.

[DAD300]

Get rid of the valve and no chance of boom! No chance of pooling/smearing behind the valve and no expensive valve! Some people have spent more on a valve for a VM or LM than the rest of the rig.

I cap the top of mine for a pot still and change nothing else. Take cap off and stick reflux coil in, 95% at will. jarheadshiner has the most recent CCVM build.

Condenser Controlled Vapor Management... http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... controlled

[Cardinalbags]

Having a tough time deciding whether to pursue basic liquid management or vapor management, I thought, "Why not have both?" This near exact still has probably already been done - there's little new in this hobby.

Please excuse my crude drawing. The basics - 1 meter 2" copper column packed with something, haven't decided yet. Probably copper scrubs to start. Topping that are assemblies that can be included or excluded at whim. Each assembly is fitted with a typical 2" sankey, so the thing can be put together and taken apart with ease.

Section 'B' is a vapor management assembly, using a 2" Tee through a big stainless gate valve, with vapors routed to a product condenser. Section 'A' is a Bok-style slant plate rig, which can be made very short, probably 8" or so. It will have a collection needle valve and probably a small liebig to cool the condensate.

Topping it all is a shotgun condenser for reflux.

With all the components in place, I should have a VM still with the slant plates being used to draw foreshots. Or, with the gate valve closed, the entire still is basically a slant plate Bok. Can I pack section 'B' with scrubs and still retain VM when desired?

And of course, by removing section 'A', I have a pure VM rig.

Am I blowing smoke with this one? It's going to take a lot of soldering of sankey ferrules, but I like the notion of being able to play with differing configurations.

You've drawn exactly what I run, for exactly the purpose you've described above.

[BigSwede]

Haha, Cardinalbags, honestly, I had not seen your "new still" thread before I drew that thing. I'm looking forward to reading about what you've done to it, how it works, etc. And of course any input you have for my build would be appreciated. As in, "What would you have done differently?"

Dad - As always, great advice, thanks. I have been reading almost non-stop since I joined the forum, and have just now started to actually build. I'm very glad I did not immediately start cutting and soldering copper.

[Brutal]

http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 60&t=26460

Check out Samohan's illustration in post 3. I've been considering building something like this too.

[bearriver]

Read this pdf here > http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... =1&t=18873

These are the best drawings of a vm/Lm rig I have seen. The vapor lock on the LM side, referenced in the drawings, is for pot stilling. It makes a very nice choice if you don't already have a pot still.

[BigSwede]

I didn't think for a minute that I had anything original with this - but I definitely wanted to see if it was viable. I'm leaning more and more towards VM. It seems to be the easiest of the three reflux methodologies to manage, and hopefully get repeatable results.

I'm playing right now with spinning copper to get some of the shapes I want. For example, the end plates for a shotgun condenser/dephlagmator are almost identical to the ends of small multi-tube boilers for steam engines and the like, and the copper is formed as a 3-dimensional cup rather than a plate. Here's a good picture:



These are riveted as well as soldered in the steam engine hobby, but since condensers don't see pressure, solder alone is adequate for us. Anyway, the 3-D cup is much easier to affix and solder, vs. a flat plate.

I'm looking forward to this build. Thanks for the advice.

[bearriver]

Will not work if the tubing is not big enough. 1/2" is just big enough to allow vapor and liquid to exist in the same space.

So 1/2" condensing tubes in that dephlagmator should be your minimum.

[BigSwede]

I do realize that, TY. I really could not find the picture I wanted, and ended up with endplates fom a model boiler.

My shotgun condenser which is about 80 percent complete will have seven 1/2 inch tubes each a foot long. That should be adequate for 5500 watts. Hope so!

[manu de hanoi]

you can use a smaller VM output arm and therefore cheaper valve if you put the VM output between the boka slants like this:

[BigJay00]

bearriver, could you explain further? I built a shotgun consisting of 12 (ish?) 1/4" pipes with a 1/2" pipe in the center. It is just a little under a foot long and can handle right around 4500W at maximum water flow. It's not the most efficient and while I will be doing another shotgun build with multiple 1/2"s in a 3" pipe soon, it works well for my purposes. Strips fast for such a short condenser. Just curious as to where you've gotten your info.

BigSwede, seen quite a bit of your posts and work lately, looking great! I envy your craftsmanship.

BigJ

[coastershiner]

BigSwede, I have built a very similar rig to your drawing, however, on mine i put the VM takeoff over the boka slant plates. the way i had originally built my boka with a graham condenser, it would have been a pain to put the VM below the plates. mine is 2'' column, with the VM being 1'' and a 1 inch stainless gate valve, going into a 2 inch leibig. i haven't got to run it yet... i will post some pics soon, i'm in the final stages of rigging a 10 gallon milk can into a kettle with 120v and 240v capability.

[BigSwede]

Hi Coaster... Thanks for the input. My still is 90% complete, just waiting for my daughter to be home - she wants to be there - and I am finishing an SPP machine. That said, I did install ferrules for each section, so I can set it up LM over VM, or the other way around.

Couple of thoughts... With the LM beneath the VM take off Tee, you get some nice turbulence to coax the vapors into the VM piping. On the other hand, LM on top creates back pressure, also perhaps forcing flow into the VM. But with mine at least it's all moot, because I executed a slide valve arrangement which forces the vapor into whatever path I desire.

Initially, I'll try in LM on top, see how it goes.

I've read a few accounts of guys with VM setups that have very low flow even with the valve wide open, I'm guessing due to zero turbulence or pressure change areas in the rig. The vapor simply doesn't make that turn, instead goes up and gets refluxed.