Plates Plates Plates

[MoonWhisky]

I'd like to start a topic strictly for plates.
Post pics of your plates.
Talk about new ideas & designs.
I have a different design that I don't know if it's been done before but its basically a marble or stainless steel ball resting over the incoming tube then once the plate is loaded it will bubble.

[Bob Loblaw]

Interesting idea - but what keeps the ball in place? Seems like the plate action would make it roll out of the opening. I think it would need some sort of cage over it.

[MoonWhisky]

I believe if a marble or stainless steel ball rested far enough in the tube gravity would keep it down. Like a 1/2 tube and a 5/8 ball. And the more you have the less pressure on the balls. It would look like a Chinese checkers game.

[skow69]

Interesting idea Moon. You want the vapor to come thru the ring of holoes, right? So why a marble instead of a cap on the pipe? For pressure relief? But any vapor entering thru the top of the pipe would miss the liquid bed. What if you cut the pipe shorter so the marble was like half submerged? Or eliminate the pipe and let the marble seat into the hole in the plate? Need heavy marbles. SS ball bearings? If the holes were stamped from the top side they would probably be depressed enough to guarantee the marbles return. It might clatter like hell.

[woodshed]

While I like the out of box thinking I see no practical reason to do so. Hoping you can enlighten me. Always open to a different approach.

[skow69]

Economy and ease of assembly? Drill holes and pour in bearings for a valved plate, sort of. Just spitballing, here. This had never occured to me till I saw Moon's drawing.

[thatguy1313]

I just like that its different. I've yet to see moonwhiskey build anything that's same old same ol. Every one of his threads is creative and thought provoking. Appreciate the innovation MW.

[skow69]

Might need bars to protect the sight glass, depending on how active the stainless ball bearings become. Har!

[MoonWhisky]

Yeah like a Chinese checkers game board. That way would make a lot of noise but having it rest on the tubes with ring holes underneath there shouldn't be any noise other than the bubbles. And yes end caps would work as well I'm just trying to be unique and different.
And woodshed. I never ran a plated column. That's why I'm starting this tread so ppl like myself can learn and see what ppl are using and what works. I know the sieve plate, bubble caps, and "J" bend plates are all very effective. I'm making a bubble cap plate as we speak. And I'll most likely going to try my marble or SS ball method on one other plates. My Bubble Bowl Build will have 4 plates and would like to have a different plates.

[woodshed]

Love it.

[bellybuster]

If a marble just happened to be displaced wouldn't you instantly lose the entire fluid bed?
Cool idea

[MoonWhisky]

If a marble just happened to be displaced wouldn't you instantly lose the entire fluid bed?
Cool idea

Yes you would. It would have to be designed to where this couldn't happen. The tube would have to cradle the ball making it hard to roll or pop off. Take a ballpoint hammer to the pipe so it makes a ball cradle.

[MoonWhisky]

Or like skow said. Make the plate with indents and make them close enough together so the balls are touching leaving no room for the balls to move to. They should stay stationery. It would be like a flap plate but will balls instead of silicone.

[Bob Loblaw]

A plate still needs little bubbles that are scrubbed through a bed of fluid. And I don't think you would get either small bubbles or a deep enough fluid bed for this idea to work. If the marbles stayed in your depression, I think at best you'd be getting big burpy bubbles that would rock the marble, and fluid would drip down when the marble was displaced from the hole.

[MoonWhisky]

This is true if the marble bed or SS balls fail then end caps can be used

[Hound Dog]

Yes, the marble would need to be in a cage of some sort to keep it centered over the hole. The rising vapors would just knock it aside otherwise.

Who here did plates with old copper pennies on rods to act as vents to each of the holes? That was pretty cool.

[googe]

Here's some more info relating to the idea moonwhiskey, looks like it could work with some changes. Good luck. http://www.artisan-distiller.net/phpBB3 ... =61&t=6055" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" rel="nofollow

[Brutal]

I think the main advantage to using a weighted ball like this would be versatility. On a sieve plate the velocity of the upcoming vapor and the size of the holes is a constant. Using a "normal" bubble cap the change in vapor speed is masked by the pool being higher than the slots in the cap. Using a weighted ball the vapor path becomes variable to the vapor speed/pressure. If there is little vapor passing it would all be routed through the distillate pool (assuming it is above the opening.) As the amount of vapor increases the ball will just float a little higher in direct response to vapor pressure. It will be only as high as the vapor forces it to be. This means that in a variable range of vapor speeds (heat input) the vapor path through the plate is automatically adjusted to the power being pushed. This could equalize the vapor speed during a wider range than a fixed orifice could do.

I like that it could be designed to be below the liquid level in the plate and remain so even at low power levels.

Another expansion on another great idea brother Moon.

[Brutal]

To add to this if I may.. If the downcomers you use for this were the kind to allow flow from the bottom of the liquid bath you could potentially run at high heat and cause so many multiple distillations while returning the heaviest components to the next lower plate as to make a spirit run out of a stripping run.

Picture in your mind a mushroom shaped cap atop an inner downcomer. The top of the mushroom would be sealed with air like a float in a carburetor. When it floats it raises the whole mushroom cross sectional assembly and allows fluid to flow down to the next lower plate.

[googe]

Do you mean having the ball inside a I've floating up and down with pressure brutal?. Even with a flange/cone shape on the top of a tube with the ball sitting on it, the vapor will dislodge the ball easy unless it weighs a ton!.

[Brutal]

Do you mean having the ball inside a I've floating up and down with pressure brutal?. Even with a flange/cone shape on the top of a tube with the ball sitting on it, the vapor will dislodge the ball easy unless it weighs a ton!.

If you turn it up a ton sure.

I'm just saying with a fixed orifice (sieve plate/bubble cap) you have a target to blindly shoot at. With a variable orifice created by a weighted ball the target becomes easier to hit.

Have you ever balanced a balloon on top of a fan that's aiming upward? It centers itself quite well and will remain on top of the fan. The ss/copper/whatever metal ball will be affected by the same forces and stay the same way.

I think in a normal application the forced bubbling could be like a "typical" bubble plate, and unmodified it could keep up with a high amount of power being applied. With downcomers this system could make a very real plate cut very quickly. Higher power would mean multiple quick distillations and with the fluid being bypassed it could equalize pretty quickly and while under power as long as the take off rate is controlled.

Look at this balloon. It is centered because of airflow. These ss/copper balls would act the same way.
http://www.instructables.com/id/Control ... d-Balloon/

[bearriver]

Economy and ease of assembly?

That would make it a hobby win if I have ever seen one.

Anyone can make the simple complicated. Creativity is making the complicated simple...

[MoonWhisky]

Okay guys what about using like 20 or more 3/8" to 1/4" reducers and each one will holed a SS ball bearing (all types of sizes on ebay and can buy the 100's) or whatever size you desire

[skow69]

To add to this if I may.. If the downcomers you use for this were the kind to allow flow from the bottom of the liquid bath you could potentially run at high heat and cause so many multiple distillations while returning the heaviest components to the next lower plate as to make a spirit run out of a stripping run.

Picture in your mind a mushroom shaped cap atop an inner downcomer. The top of the mushroom would be sealed with air like a float in a carburetor. When it floats it raises the whole mushroom cross sectional assembly and allows fluid to flow down to the next lower plate.

I'm afraid there is far too much turbulence in an active plate for the fluid bed to stratify. You will get the same mixture regardless of the elevation where the fluid enters the downcomer. Or did I misinterpret your reason for taking liquid from the bottom of the bath?

[skow69]

Do you mean having the ball inside a I've floating up and down with pressure brutal?. Even with a flange/cone shape on the top of a tube with the ball sitting on it, the vapor will dislodge the ball easy unless it weighs a ton!.

If you turn it up a ton sure.

I'm just saying with a fixed orifice (sieve plate/bubble cap) you have a target to blindly shoot at. With a variable orifice created by a weighted ball the target becomes easier to hit.

Have you ever balanced a balloon on top of a fan that's aiming upward? It centers itself quite well and will remain on top of the fan. The ss/copper/whatever metal ball will be affected by the same forces and stay the same way.

Uhhh, I dunno, man. I'm thinking the ball bearing is more like a boulder shot out of a volcano than a balloon on a fan. It will want to go in any direction except up.

[skow69]

Okay guys what about using like 20 or more 3/8" to 1/4" reducers and each one will holed a SS ball bearing (all types of sizes on ebay and can buy the 100's) or whatever size you desire

IMG_20140710_235144.jpg

That would keep the balls in place but it sure raised the level where vapor enters the bath.

[MoonWhisky]

Then cut the reducer down till its just a cup shape soldered on the plate. I believe I will be trying this method out.

[Hound Dog]

I like the idea Moon but you will still need some uprights or a cage to hold that ball. Like Skow said, there is a lot of turbulance going on in there. A heavy 1" stainless ball would just get tossed to the side if you don't have something to hold it in place. Rock from a volcano is a good analogy.

[MoonWhisky]

Solder a copper washer over the top of the reducer

[googe]

Do you mean having the ball inside a I've floating up and down with pressure brutal?. Even with a flange/cone shape on the top of a tube with the ball sitting on it, the vapor will dislodge the ball easy unless it weighs a ton!.

If you turn it up a ton sure.

I'm just saying with a fixed orifice (sieve plate/bubble cap) you have a target to blindly shoot at. With a variable orifice created by a weighted ball the target becomes easier to hit.

Have you ever balanced a balloon on top of a fan that's aiming upward? It centers itself quite well and will remain on top of the fan. The ss/copper/whatever metal ball will be affected by the same forces and stay the same way.

I think in a normal application the forced bubbling could be like a "typical" bubble plate, and unmodified it could keep up with a high amount of power being applied. With downcomers this system could make a very real plate cut very quickly. Higher power would mean multiple quick distillations and with the fluid being bypassed it could equalize pretty quickly and while under power as long as the take off rate is controlled.

Look at this balloon. It is centered because of airflow. These ss/copper balls would act the same way.
http://www.instructables.com/id/Control ... d-Balloon/

I see what your saying, but a ballon dancing on air compared to a ball bearing dancing on vapor are two totally different worlds. Rising vapor will push the ball to a point it will move, slow vapor will make it plop with slow plop movements, and risk falling off the tube it's sitting on, high vapor does will just blow it off the tube, if it's set in a cradle or has a retainer to hold it in place I could see it bouncing around/up and down. You would have to do some.serious maths to work out, vapor pressures for low to high power settings, ball weight, tube size, pressures from one plate to the next, the amount of reflux. Everything would need to be uniform because basic principles are that, vapor takes less resistant path. The mushroom thing your describe is like larrys humper thumper.