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Well finally got this started.

Originally I was going to start with a pot and go stovetop, but a quality pot was ALOT more than I expected. So I went the keg route as the price was right.

I picked up a 15g sanke keg off the local swap/fs site for $40

First challenge was to remove the Valve. First I layed it on its side and depressurized it. This was one the newer style (Miller) I think it was. It did not have the clip in the slot. It was screwed in. Took a bit but get it loosened up, then after some fun/trouble I got the safty catch and and able to totally get it out.

I picked up 2 2" tri clamps (one extra for later), and a 2" tri to 2" ntp (I know I could have done an easy flange but was being lazy and did not have a 2 1/8" bit to make it easier)

I then wet and got 6' of 2" copper (DVW) and cut 2" off the end to use for the Boka plates and a top piece for the condenser.

Marked and cut my slots (used a dremel). Was perfect fit blade was exactly the same with as the flattened out tube. Got everything Cleaned and soldered.

I used 1/4" soft copper for the thermometer port and 3/8" for the exit port.

I did a messy job soldering.. This non lead for water pipes a bit more of a pain than normal solder but safety is important (used water soluble flux also)

Everything was sealed up so I went to the condenser. I made a double helix to fit in the tube. Its a 9" double so should be good for this boka. There is still salt in the tube need to get the hose connection parts and tube yet to help wash it all free... Hi pressure air helped but did not get it all either. I had read it was hit and miss but I was hopeful it would work

at about 5' 10" of column I am debating to cut it down. Originally I have planned for 48" below the plates. I left 10" above the plates for my 9" coil.

I have a lead free brass with ptfe seals needle valve (was surprised to find it at the local hardware store) Still trying to find a reasonably priced 3/8" compression stainless needle valve. I will pickle the existing valve to use for my cleaning runs till I can get a good stainless valve.

So the decision is do I cut the column or not. I need to cut it if I am goign to run things were I wanted to when I convert to electric. For right now using a 30,000 but propane burner to heat the keg. I am tempted to cut the column so I have 48" plus a little under the plates. I see references of 20-30 X column width so that puts me in the middle of the 40-60".. Should fit.

Packing is another place I need to make a decision. I can get the copper Slug stuff at about $50 for 100 feet. Based on some discussions I read one fellow mention 7 lengths of that stuff and them wrapp it so he used at least 7 x 4 or 28 feet just to start and then wrapped around that after rolled fairly tight, so I expet about 50 feet mayeb more time will tell. I might go this route but also looked as a bunch of SPP, it sounds lie a better option but not sure were to get it here in Canada so going with pure copper slug stuff I think.

Need cleaning run and sacrificial run yet... once I ge the rest together will have to get er done! Then I can start learning the art of cuts.

First I want to make some nice neutral to turn into gin.

I for see a pot still head in my future for the keg

Charging camera to take some pics too... once I get everything together.

B

I think 20 to 30x column width is a bit high. What I usually see stated is 12 to 24x width. Going by that your column at 48" should be about perfect. As for packing you will get as many opinions as there are choices. That is what makes this forum and hobby so exciting. Close your eyes and envision a marble packed column.
Sounds like a nice build. Post some pics.

Thanks. I have read that 60" was the max really needed for a 2" boa and after that made no real difference. I'm not chasing Absoulute zero but want to make a nice neutral and thing this should do it. I am goign to cut things down so I have about 48" of packing... should make for a nice compromise.... and will leave me with just under a foot.... Thinking pot still head... with a 90 and 45 to end cap... and then cut hole to solder a 1/2" connector into the endcap to put a union to a liebeg condenser..... Be great for stripping runs and allow for a nice whiskey too. Can always get an extension later if I need also.

B

I added a pic of the build. I need to clean up my messy solder. I sanded the column with 600 wet dry to remove the ink on the copper... and make it look more uniform. Sorta the brushed look. I have just over 48" from the bottom plat to the bottom of the column, then a gain about 1 1/2" or so with the 2" triclamp to 2" NPT piece so lots tall.

Once I go electric will work inside for the winter.

B

ben stiller wrote:I think 20 to 30x column width is a bit high. What I usually see stated is 12 to 24x width. Going by that your column at 48" should be about perfect. As for packing you will get as many opinions as there are choices. That is what makes this forum and hobby so exciting. Close your eyes and envision a marble packed column.
Sounds like a nice build. Post some pics.

+1 Ben stiller
from about 25 to 30 times column diameter, would be overkill and not do much for you.
You 48" is more than adequate...btw..looks good..
The copperline coming from your needlevalve, is a bit long.
There would be a looooong time before you notice any settings on the valve.
You might want to shorten it,making a coil or better....build a little Liebig...

Edit: There is no need for any salt to make a coil..but now you have done it, i hope it will work out fine.

Thanks!
Yes the copper out for the needle valve was just what was left and I did not want to cut a piece yet. I an planning on some 1/2" over 3/8" liebege to cool the output. That is why I purchased the extra.

The salt was maybe a bad call. Seen some say you need it other say no need. The copper even though was suppose to be soft.. was actually pretty hard compared to soft Copper I have used in the past. Because it seamed so hard I figured use salt to be safe (I started without salt and it would not bend without distorting bad unless I heated and aneiled it).. hind-site is 20/20 even after reading a lot and learning from other mistakes.. you always make some yourself ... lol This site has saved me a TON of mistakes!!!!!!!!!!!

Using propane for now 30,000 btu burned way more than I need though... its what I have.

B

K spent 20 minutes and got the salt out just took a little water and some compressed air... 15 of the minutes was soaking in water....

Here is what is looks like. not the purdies coil... but should work I hope. Heck can always make another if needed the right way.

B

It will do fine, bitter.
As long as you got sufficient flow through it, you are golden..it's no beautycontest..
If you some day decide to make another, here is a tutorial: http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 7&t=52290¨
That way you can wind single or double coils without salt, heat or fancy rigs.
I have seen folks that build a entire setup just to wind a coppercoil...it probably would be sufficient for 1/4" stainless steel.

Thanks,
Nice tutorial!

B

Well, decided to go with the copper blocker as SPP looks to be a pain to get and will hold up the schedule.

I see directions from another user that is getting 3-4l/h with a 2" boka that us using this.. so going to give things a go with a nice tight packing. The roll one up for the core really tight and then use 6-7 lengths of this stuff... After that they wrap the outside like you do electrical tap on wire or a pipe to build up to the right size.

I have a 100' roll so will be more than I need, but determines a 25' roll would not be enough...

B

The 3-4 L/h, would probably be a stripping run with a 2" Boka.
It sounds indeed very high for a 2" column....do you have a link to the thread, Bitter..?
I would expect more in the ballpark of 1-2 L/h, to be more realistic if quality should be maintained.

I thought that was high also and am expecting the 1-2l/h range.. at least that is my expectations.

http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 17&t=47886
the post was by Cardinalbags

Cardinalbags wrote:additional height would not necessarily equate to faster run, bigger diameter and more power equates to a faster run for the same efficiency factor of packing. In general terms taller equates to better quality at the same flow rates, but can translate to a bit faster with no increase in quality, i.e drive it faster and allow the additional packing compensate for a bit of quality.

On my 2" rig, boka and VM arm, i am pulling 3.3L / hour at 95% from a 40% low wines charge. Guys running even higher efficiency packings like SPP are pulling similar rates to 95% direct from 12% washes.

I run my 80l washes in two batches through my 15.5 gal keg and can strip both runs in 3 hrs each from cold start to packed away. I turn around the next day and do spirit runs at rates as above, cold start to finished in less than 4.5 hours.

There is a big difference in time for 95% to azeo but I consider it not time well spent when the 95% for me is neutral.

Packing makes a big difference, and not just what type but how densely packed it gets..... I've been using a very densely packed copper mesh and attribute the rates i am getting off the still to the sweet spot of packing density I've landed on.

My packed section is 2"x36".

And this is the disruption of how it was packed

Cardinalbags wrote:It is definitely tighter than pushing copper scrubbers up the tube.

I take a length of the material and lay it out to equal the length of the packed section and try to roll that up into as tight a core say around a pencil diameter or just a bit bigger. I find that helps to keep the center closed in a bit and eliminate any voids at the center. Then I lay out about 6 lengths of the material the length of the packed section, folding it back onto itself as I go. This then gets wrapped around the "pencil core" to form my main core. Then I take the mesh and wrap it around the core with a generous overlap to build up the diameter (just like wrapping electrical tape around something) to be just a bit greater than the inside diameter of the tube. I take care to wrap with the same spiral so that I can twist it to make it tighter or twist the opposite direction to expand it.

I leave a bit of excess at one end and clamp the excess to a piece of 1/2" copper tube which I then use to pull the roll into the tube, twisting as I go. Once set in place, I twist the opposite direction to set it. Then the loose ends get stuffed in the tube and if any voids are left at the end of the tube, then I ram some additional mesh in the voids. It was a really dense piece that got stuffed in the end that sits at the boiler....

I do the "breath test" and get a fair resistance to it, labored one might say if you had to breathe through that all day.. The other side of the argument here is am I at risk of choking off the column with so much packing... I did a run one time at 4+L/hr, 95% and tasted good(6mins and 20 seconds per 450 ml mason jar) and didn't flood, but was just prior to my heating element going kablooey and since I replaced the heating element, I haven't seemed to dial back to the same sweet spot. When I try to replicate I start to flood out the column... back it down to 3.3L/hr (8 minutes and 15 seconds per jar or so) and works just fine.

As far as weight or square footage, I wish I had measured the length of the roll before and after, but I did not. When I go to replace the packing sometime, I am going to measure the total weight of packing.

I've heard of people using so many scrubbies per foot of column, but when I see that and try to compare in my head to what I think I have in my column, I am sure I have three times the density, but that is just a WA guess.

B

Looking good. You are on track, 48" will be fine. If you are using copper, pack it tight and watch for flooding. I would suggest small dime sized lava rocks. Next best thing to SPP. Never tried marbles yet but many here praise them too. Good luck.

Hound Dog wrote:Looking good. You are on track, 48" will be fine. If you are using copper, pack it tight and watch for flooding. I would suggest small dime sized lava rocks. Next best thing to SPP. Never tried marbles yet but many here praise them too. Good luck.

Thanks, I was think lava rock would be pretty heavy, also seem marbles as an option but the kids would not be happy if they disappeared ...

B

Rad has done a study on marbles and reckoned they were pretty good. You should have a search for it.

Yeah that was the thread I was reading http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... =1&t=49735

B

Marbles would add more weight to a column than lava rock... Still need to finish my comparison between marbles and SPP... At some point I'd like to try comparing lava rock to both of those as well...

rad14701 wrote:Marbles would add more weight to a column than lava rock... Still need to finish my comparison between marbles and SPP... At some point I'd like to try comparing lava rock to both of those as well...

I'd love to see that would be great for any newbie trying to determine what packing to use!!!

For now I have the copper blocker from Lee Valley. I expect will do fine as lots of people have success... would really like SPP but not in the cards right now.

B

Lava rock is not very heavy. When the column loads with liquid it will be hefty no matter what.

+1 Hound Dog

You can get some stainless steel scrubbies, just for a start...they perform fine.
Ready coppermesh can be bought online from one of the many shops that deliver accessories for distilling.
SSP would be the top packing to use, unfortunatly the price is also in the top.
Now there are a few people in here making their own SSP...
One that comes to my mind is Big Swede, he has a hand for metalwork as Mozart had for playing piano...impressive.

Edit:Here is the thread: http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 50&t=49704

Thanks!

I purchased the copper blocker from lee valley (For gardening) and its 100% pure copper mesh.

I did pm BigSwede but he has not been on the site it looks like... as his pm is still in my outbox. I read his whole thread and also seen the youtube vids of his machine very very nice work!

I will run with the copper and maybe order SPP at some point in the future to copare. I figure I need 2-3l of SPP for my column.

Just trying to get the connector for the garden hose to 3/8" barb locally so I can connect to my cooling condenser. Going to use 3/8" ID / 1/2" od hose for in and out to decrease the weight the hose puts on the column also.

Almost there, I have some wine for a sacraficial run.. and also a 19l wash of bran that has settled out nice.

Got the stuff to do a Winoes Sugar wash ( http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 14&t=47480 ) so that's next on the list. with do 2 buckets full @ 1.080 to make some gin. Already got the juniper berries and coriander to do Odin's Easy Gin http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 14&t=48668

I figure start with a really clean neutral and this will also help me learn to run the boka in refulux.

I found some olive barrels locally fro $17 might pickup one just todo UJSM with a mix of Rye and Corn. Will most likely strip and then do finish run when enough to charge the keg with 23-46l of 35-40% to do spirit run. Going to use gallon jugs and age/oak using t-pee style roasted white oak in gallon jugs till I can get a used barrel to use.

B

Cut 7 pieces of copper blocker 46" long and rolled them together, Then wraped around them like electrical tap till was about 10% bigger diameter than inside the pipe. I did not measure but I think I used about 55-65 feet total. Time will tell if its packed too tight. I can breath through it... but not super easy.

Also washed the column out first and screwed the triclamp to column using PTFE tap for the seal.

Could not get the parts for the water of the coil so could not get vinegar/water run and sacrificial runs done today like I hoped.

B

Almost there! Got the parts to feed water to the condenser... If weather permits tomorrow will do the vinegar cleaning run and then next sacrificial run!

B

Yesterday the weather man did not cooperate. Today I got my vinager/water cleaning run done, but can't move forward to the sacrificial run.

I used several wraps of PTFE tap around the tri-clamp areas for a seal as I have read other people doing. Well, this was not a good enough seal. Had a small leak so need a different sealing method before I move forward.

I am going to try to find a PTFE triclamp seal to order in Canada and use it. I will not use other materials/ orings that are not PTFE.... as want to ensure things are safe.

Other than that things went well. Put 5 gallons in the keg (25% vinegar) turned the burner on full and got to a rolling boil in 20 minutes. After about 1/2 of running at 212 up top and steam comming out.... (Adjusted heat such that did not boil dry) I turning on the water to the condenser. Turned back to full and I could keep down with no escape of vapor the 30,000 btu burn running at full. Column stayed at almost a perfect 212F (It id hit 212.5 at one point when I shut down the cooling again to see and let some more steam escape) then turned the cooling back on and let it reflux for some time... I also after the initial steaming out the vapor trail closed the valve and also in the last bit tested to see if I could get 1-2 drips per second and was easily obtainable. So once leak is fixed time for sacrificial run.

All in all a successful test and showed me were I need to make a change. No other leaks were detected and things were smooth other than the triclamp leak.

Without this forum and guidance I would not be going down this road as safety is important.

For the seal I can just make an everlast seal but would like 100% ptfe seal. I guess flour and water would also work. Just wanted to avoid the mess of the flour and water.

B

Finally was able to get a cleaning run done. I used the all bran wash I had sitting here. It was about 15l of 12%

Was nice how fast things heated up. Took about 20-25 minutes and column was at 173 (I think my thermometer is not perfect) after about 1 hour of stabilization it was rock solid at 172.8-178.9 flipping back and forth every so little bit. I used this as a practice run as I know will be tossed/used for future cleaning.

Things were rock solid. Over about 1h 45m I collected about 1.75l of product (cleaner now as will be tossed).

after what I though were the compressed fores I gave it a light smell .. smelt sweet etc and burnt my eyes... I got about 500ml of combined heads/fores till things seams to smell much cleaner. I then got just under 1l of hearts (I expect some heads/tails were in this... but was not worried as a cleaning run... all garbage for cleaning again.)

I took 2 measurements heads and hearts. Looks to be about 95% after temperature correction as product was about 80f and showing 100%. Its now cooling so I can take a proper measurement.

The first 125-250ml was really dirty and some blue.. so tossed it. I have about 1.5l in jar to measure later after it slows down. The rest of the product after the first bit is perfectly clean.... the hearts smell pretty clean... but did not taste.. will have to see how things smell to determine if I do a second cleaning run of move onto my UJSSM that is just about ready to run.

B

Hey...congrats Bitter...!
A second cleaningrun shouldn't be necessary, but as you had blue distillate..it couldn't harm to do so.
She will produce a fine drop once you got dialed in on the sweet spot.

Danespirit wrote:Hey...congrats Bitter...!
A second cleaningrun shouldn't be necessary, but as you had blue distillate..it couldn't harm to do so.
She will produce a fine drop once you got dialed in on the sweet spot.

Thanks,

The blue was in the first like 125-250 ml max after that was perfectly clear.

I had put the distillate in the fridge to cool and then measured the % Think I hit abzero on my first run wow was not expecting that.

Attached pic was measured at 57F I measured the hearts.... not the head/tails jar. This was running at about 1L/Hour so I'm pretty happy.... was not expecting to be able to hit that % at that rate. Will have to play to see how fast I can run it and still get abzero.

I have 10 gallons of UJSSM ready to run... but that will be different as need to run in potstill mode. I think I will run in Boka mode and take the foreshot and then open things up and change to potstill mode and see how she goes. Need propain first... so not going to be today.

I really need to find a pyrex vessel to measure in this plastic one will not cut it for drinkable stuff.

B

Glad it went well Bitter!

Thanks!

One thing I noticed that was interesting. I know every build is different, but once I started to see the temp raise a few points it shot up really fast from there, like less than 10 minute was 82f so I shut things down. I also noticed the tails smell once the temp started to rise. Things were ok till things raised .1 As soon as that happened I put everything in the heads jar... as I wanted to see how clean the heats smelt. Even though not for drinking as was cleaning run.

I need to pickup some mason jars before I do the ujssm. I want to collect in 250ml or less per jar so I can nicely blend things. Then put on oak...

So shopping list:
Mason jars
more sugar

B

Yep, that's because the boka was compressing the fractions so well. Once you see that temp budge a tenth of a degree you will know the tails are a comin' on. If you have been refluxing a neutral pretty hard they are stacked pretty strong down there and will come on strong. You are on it. When you try and run your UJ in pot mode it will smear differently and drag some of those tails into the hearts. It won't be as distinct. You'll see. It will do you good to run a few runs of All Bran to get to know how your rig runs before trying to do flavored runs but if you already have it ready to go, give her a whirl.