CM build

Vapor, Liquid or Cooling Management. Flutes, plates, etc.

Moderator: Site Moderator

Post Reply
Dan P.
Distiller
Posts: 1085
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2010 7:24 am
Location: The Islands

CM build

Post by Dan P. »

I'm in the preliminary stages of planning a post-Christmas present to myself, to whit, a CM column.
I've been a pot stiller for 5-6 years now, and while I wouldn't say that I've "mastered" pot stilling, I've certainly reached my plateau, for now.
I've also found my groove as to what I like to make; I like to make white AG rye. It's a great spirit, I treat it like an eau de vie, and there are really no commercial versions available which frees up my imagination and aspirations from trying to msake it "like something else".

Okay, that said, the nitty gritty;

I want to go CM. It makes the most sense to me; an open system with variables. To me it seems the next step up from pot-stilling.
I have access to 3" copper tube. It is sold in 1.5 metre lengths. Some of that will go to the product condenser. Coolant will be seperate for dephleg and product condenser, controlled by needle valves. The dephleg will be essentially as per Husker's boka instructions, scaled up to 3" column.

What I am thinking about, questions;
How tall should I make the column. I want to preserve some flavour, but limit/eliminate heads, limit tails, and make a "clean" product for minimal ageing (1-2 months).
Of that length, how much, if any, should be packed w. scrubbers/mesh?
What size tube for the dephleg coil? That's mostly a question of what is the largest diameter that can be easily coiled, I'm guessing?
My boiler charge is 25 liters-ish wash, with 3-4 imperial gallons-ish (i.e. 12-16 liters) of low 25-30% wines on a spirit run.
My burner is 5.5 kw LPG 2 ring burner.

Further question;
Any use in using the dephleg/reflux in the strip run? Does any body bother?

Any pointers/thoughts most appreciated!
User avatar
Bushman
Admin
Posts: 17988
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 5:29 am
Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: CM build

Post by Bushman »

With a CM you can probably bypass the stripping run.

As far as a coil goes you might look up PP's build as I think he used a coil for his RC. For me I can get 100% reflux with my dephlagmater. I have 5 tubes 3/4" diameter. I also like the idea that I have two valves to control water flow (one to the dephlagmater and the other to the shotgun condenser). I believe this gives me better control over my run.

My tower was regulated by using an existing pipe for the dairy industry that has ferrules already built it. Mine is 50" tall but my dephlagmater drops in from the top thus it is probably almost a foot shorter to the bottom of the dephlagmater. I feel that I get a lot of flavor that comes through depending on how I run the still.

I have scrubbers/copper mesh almost up to the bottom of the dephlagmater.

Here is a link to my build:
http://homedistiller.org/forum/viewtopi ... 50&t=28241
Dan P.
Distiller
Posts: 1085
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2010 7:24 am
Location: The Islands

Re: CM build

Post by Dan P. »

That's a great design for the dephlegmator, Bushman. I'd seen the shotgun style before during my research, but never realized you could just sort of pop it in the top. IOt makes a lot of sense, thank you.
May I ask how long your dephlegmator is? Did you say a foot?
Also, do the input and outlet pipe both simply attach to the top? To overthink this a little I might be inclined to push the outlet pipe down to the bottom of the dephlegmator, to give more of a "cold in, hot out" effect. Probably overthinking it, right?
User avatar
shadylane
Master of Distillation
Posts: 10363
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 11:54 pm
Location: Hiding In the Boiler room of the Insane asylum

Re: CM build

Post by shadylane »

Dan P. wrote:How tall should I make the column. I want to preserve some flavour
How much copper tubing and head room do you have? :lol:
One of the good things about a CM is you can control or even shut off the reflux.
In other words if you want a pot-still turn the dephlegamator cooling water off.
If you want flavor, turn the cooling water down to a trickle or drip.
If neutral spirits is what you want, turn the reflux up until the liquor is coming out at a trickle.
Dan P.
Distiller
Posts: 1085
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2010 7:24 am
Location: The Islands

Re: CM build

Post by Dan P. »

shadylane wrote:
Dan P. wrote:How tall should I make the column. I want to preserve some flavour
How much copper tubing and head room do you have? :lol:
One of the good things about a CM is you can control or even shut off the reflux.
In other words if you want a pot-still turn the dephlegamator cooling water off.
If you want flavor, turn the cooling water down to a trickle or drip.
If neutral spirits is what you want, turn the reflux up until the liquor is coming out at a trickle.
As I mentioned in my first post, I can get the 3" in 1.5m (59") lengths, so I will go with that.
Given that I'm not especially interested in neutral, I thought 1m would suffice for the column, and the remaining 0.5m for the condenser.
It's perhaps a waste to use it for a condenser but I can't get it in shorter lengths and so it works out to use what I've got for both. It also gives the set-up a certain symmetry.
User avatar
shadylane
Master of Distillation
Posts: 10363
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 11:54 pm
Location: Hiding In the Boiler room of the Insane asylum

Re: CM build

Post by shadylane »

Sounds like a good game plan to me :thumbup:
User avatar
Bushman
Admin
Posts: 17988
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 5:29 am
Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: CM build

Post by Bushman »

Dan P. wrote:That's a great design for the dephlegmator, Bushman. I'd seen the shotgun style before during my research, but never realized you could just sort of pop it in the top. IOt makes a lot of sense, thank you.
May I ask how long your dephlegmator is? Did you say a foot?
Also, do the input and outlet pipe both simply attach to the top? To overthink this a little I might be inclined to push the outlet pipe down to the bottom of the dephlegmator, to give more of a "cold in, hot out" effect. Probably overthinking it, right?
6", it drops down about a foot into the column. I didn't just pop it in as it was the same diameter as my stainless steel column. What I did was take a 4" pipe and cut it down the length then brought it together so it was a slightly smaller diameter. This also allows the vapor to go up the outside when I slow the cooling to the dephlagmater.
User avatar
shadylane
Master of Distillation
Posts: 10363
Joined: Sat Oct 27, 2007 11:54 pm
Location: Hiding In the Boiler room of the Insane asylum

Re: CM build

Post by shadylane »

Bushman, could you post a link to your defleg ? I couldn't find it.
It's a good enough idea the OP might be interested.
User avatar
firewater69
Site Donor
Site Donor
Posts: 1332
Joined: Tue Feb 04, 2014 9:55 am

Re: CM build

Post by firewater69 »

you'll love that CM Dan, they are such a versatile still. I have a 0.375 x 0.028 wall external rc coil on mine, when I rebuild it it will be 0.500 x 0.028 wall, I work for a company that makes AC components so I have access to different tubing than you can get at most places. I really like the idea of a shotgun but will hold off until I can upgrade from 2". I'll be watching your build.
Moonshine.... American as apple pie & it's part of our heritage, history & culture.
User avatar
Bushman
Admin
Posts: 17988
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 5:29 am
Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: CM build

Post by Bushman »

shadylane wrote:Bushman, could you post a link to your defleg ? I couldn't find it.
It's a good enough idea the OP might be interested.
It's on my link on my first post on this thread.
Dan P.
Distiller
Posts: 1085
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2010 7:24 am
Location: The Islands

Re: CM build

Post by Dan P. »

Bushman, on your plan at the beginning of that thread, I looked a little closer, and see that one of the water tubes to the dephleg cannister does go to the bottom. Common sense tells me that this is actually the input tube, contrary to what I thought before. Unfortunately the plan is too small for me to read the notation.
Cutting and closing the 4" pipe is also a very good idea, though I think that I might have some 2" squirreled away somewhere which should do the job. Or maybe I'll just sacrifice a little of the 3", do the cut and close, and have a snugger fit. I'll see what makes best sense when I get down to it.
User avatar
Bushman
Admin
Posts: 17988
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 5:29 am
Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: CM build

Post by Bushman »

Dan P. wrote:Bushman, on your plan at the beginning of that thread, I looked a little closer, and see that one of the water tubes to the dephleg cannister does go to the bottom. Common sense tells me that this is actually the input tube, contrary to what I thought before. Unfortunately the plan is too small for me to read the notation.
Cutting and closing the 4" pipe is also a very good idea, though I think that I might have some 2" squirreled away somewhere which should do the job. Or maybe I'll just sacrifice a little of the 3", do the cut and close, and have a snugger fit. I'll see what makes best sense when I get down to it.
You are absolutely right about the water lines. Also I made my own plates not only for the dephlagmater but also to connect the tubes leaving with a nice groove that fits the 4" ferrule gasket for sealing.
Dan P.
Distiller
Posts: 1085
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2010 7:24 am
Location: The Islands

Re: CM build

Post by Dan P. »

I'm still working up to pulling the trigger on what is for me quite an expensive splurge.
I plan to make the cannister style dephleg out of 2" pipe, with end caps. That will save me farting around with making end caps out of plate/sheet, and the bought end caps are a little thicker and I believe work hardened, making them easier to drill for the through tubes.
I'll post up my "working diagram" (when I've drawn it!!), but I'm being pretty conservative with my design, the only notable places of interest being two seperate valves for the condenser and dephleg, as advised, and a thermometer on the dephleg outlet to make my life a bit easier.

The real reason I'm posting is because I wanted to ask about what you guys using CMs get as output from a single pass;
Bushman wrote:With a CM you can probably bypass the stripping run.
My wash is usually around 6%, my stripping runs yield usually around 30-35% low wines. I usually triple distill for a really clean, crisp taste, and I'm trying to imagine how that will translate into a single CM run. I know I'll ultimately have to work it out myself, but just as a very general proposition, do you think it's really possible to get a clean crisp spirit from a single CM run? Or more specifically, what would you personally expect in terms of %ABV from a single CM run of 6%ABV AG? Is that possible running a CM still at a reasonable speed? (I run a 25 litre still)
Thoughts appreciated!
Ramble over.
Prairiepiss
retired
Posts: 16571
Joined: Sat Dec 18, 2010 7:42 am
Location: Somewhere in the Ozarks

Re: CM build

Post by Prairiepiss »

You can get 95% out of a 6% charge with a CM still. If you got it tuned right. And you know how to drive it.

And yes you can make a good single run anything with a CM still. Again if you got it tuned right. And you know how to drive it.

How do you tune it and learn to drive it like that? You ask. Practice practice practice with some experimentation.
It'snotsocoldnow.

Advice For newbies by a newbie.
CM Still Mods
My Stuffs
Fu Man

Mr. Piss
That's Princess Piss to the haters.
User avatar
Bushman
Admin
Posts: 17988
Joined: Tue Mar 30, 2010 5:29 am
Location: Pacific Northwest

Re: CM build

Post by Bushman »

As PP stated depends on how you run it. I am usually not shooting for 95% as I want the flavor to come through. When I do an all feints run or a neutral then I (drive) it slower to raise the abv. This is mainly for my wife as she likes vodka and my liqueurs.
Dan P.
Distiller
Posts: 1085
Joined: Thu Jul 29, 2010 7:24 am
Location: The Islands

Re: CM build

Post by Dan P. »

Thank you for your replies, I look forward to seeing what I can do with this system.
Post Reply