FLUTE TALK

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FLUTE TALK

Postby olddog » Sun Oct 24, 2010 6:28 pm

Its now six months since I built the original Magic Flute, it has been a spectacular build for me, giving a consistant 90ABV with a single run, potstill takeoff speeds, and retaining full flavor, and once heads and forshots are taken, will retain 90ABV until all hearts are taken. It has not been a one off fluke as other builders like Kentucky Shiner report similar results.
The Idea was to take a commercial concept and scale it down to be run as a single batch production from a keg boiler, and to be built with normal handi man tools like you can find in any home workshop. I built the flute using a hacksaw, 4 files, a Mapp torch, and a drill press, and I just used a cheap bending spring to form the pipework.
Since my build, other forum members have come up with new ideas which could make this column even better. I beleave the shotgun dephlagmater and valve plates just using copper rivets as KS has done is still within the capability of members with the normal home workshop tools, and could improve the design even further.
I have had thoughts about redesigning the head of the column, so the column is built in one piece with a drop in dephlagmater unit which requires a 4" tri-clamp to seal the whole assembly. The plate assembly could be attached to the base of the dephlagmater, so the whole plate assembly and dephlagmater could be removed for cleaning or changing the plate count. If this was done, the vapor takeoff would have to be moved from the top of the column as per the original Flute, to a side takeoff.
DEPHLAG ASSEMBLY.png
New design for dephlagmater assembly

I hope this idea is some use to the Flute builders out there, I am amazed how many there are now.

I have been asked by a few members if we can combine all of the Flute build posts into one thread, although this would be very hard to do, if any Flute builders out there can post a link here it will provide a reference point for any future Flute builders.



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Re: FLUTE TALK

Postby Mr.Spooky » Sun Oct 24, 2010 6:51 pm

so would the shotgun slide down lower than the "vapor out"?
also, would you need to fabricate the shotgun from sheet copper to fit inside the 4"????
thanks
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Re: FLUTE TALK

Postby Mr.Spooky » Sun Oct 24, 2010 6:58 pm

im not quite sold on the "tree" being attached to the deflag,,,, but i really like the way that the deflag slides in the 4" and then seals shut with a 4" tri clamp..
with the deflag sliding into the column,, this might save you about 10" of total heigth. (and we all know how much a inch or 2 matters))))))))))
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Re: FLUTE TALK

Postby olddog » Sun Oct 24, 2010 7:00 pm

Mr.Spooky wrote:so would the shotgun slide down lower than the "vapor out"?
That would be correct Spooky.
Mr.Spooky wrote:also, would you need to fabricate the shotgun from sheet copper to fit inside the 4"??
It would be easier just to cut a slot out of a piece of 4"tube and hard solder the edges together to make it a slide fit inside the column, making a cylinder smaller diameter to fit inside the 4"tubing.
The plate assembly does not necessarily have to be attached to the dephlagmater, it could be made to sit on stops at the base of the column.


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Re: FLUTE TALK

Postby Mr.Spooky » Sun Oct 24, 2010 7:10 pm

evolution in action!!!!!!
i regret to say that im moving slow on my flute. its like i got it built, and just hit a wall :? . deer season is here now so i guess thats my excuse,,, but im already wanting some more 4".
anyway, is this your next endevior OD or are ya just brain farting??????
those who are just gettin their feet wet in the flutes have allot of new options infrount of them with the stuff going on btween you and KY!!!
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Re: FLUTE TALK

Postby olddog » Sun Oct 24, 2010 7:15 pm

Mr.Spooky wrote: is this your next endevior OD or are ya just brain farting??????
No Just brainfarting at the moment.
I don't usually do a new build unless someone has bought my still. The original flute works great for me, but you can always think of a different way afterwards.


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Re: FLUTE TALK

Postby maheel » Sun Oct 24, 2010 7:39 pm

can anyone link to some really good diagrams on how a flute looks inside to allow a build

i have been reading some threads but still don't see it in my mind.....

i like the idea of a bit faster run but retaining the quality for neutral,

is a flute for me? will it retain neutral but be a bit faster on BW or Wineo's ?

it would be a after xmas build but if i am looking in the scrap yard i need to keep my eye's open for the right copper :)
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Re: FLUTE TALK

Postby olddog » Sun Oct 24, 2010 8:54 pm

maheel wrote:can anyone link to some really good diagrams on how a flute looks inside to allow a build
Here's the link to my build I think it shows the progress of the build with the components.viewtopic.php?p=6834790#p6834790
maheel wrote:is a flute for me? will it retain neutral but be a bit faster on BW or Wineo's ?
The Flute was designed to give a high ABV and full flavor from spirits like whisky/rum/bourbon etc, it will do neutral, but a Bok or a VM will be cleaner.



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Re: FLUTE TALK

Postby Austin Nichols » Mon Oct 25, 2010 1:59 am

Well here is one of the ideas I had.

4 incher.jpg


This one has a pre condenser in the 3" after the elbows, the column is too long cuz I havnt cut anything from the 4" yet.

Another Idea I'm leaning towards is having an S bend straight off the 4" boiler connection then reducing to a 2" U after the dephlag, this would then send the vapor down into a 12" x 12" graham condenser with a 1/2 inch distillate tube inside, I would mount the bottom of the condenser to the 4" S off the boiler.

I would like to have the dephlag removable with tri clamps so I can use this rig as a big stripping rig for my rum.

I wish I could draw pretty pictures because I'm not sure I'm making much sense :?

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Re: FLUTE TALK

Postby Kentucky shinner » Mon Oct 25, 2010 4:50 am

I will add a link to the threads I have on my Hillbilly flute also, and the threads I have on the shotgun dephlag and the valved plate I am currently working on.

Vavled plate-- viewtopic.php?f=17&t=17939&start=0

Shotgun dephlag ---- viewtopic.php?f=17&t=17943&start=0

My flute build ----- viewtopic.php?f=17&t=16816&start=0

Great Idea on this new thread OD
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Re: FLUTE TALK

Postby Kentucky shinner » Mon Oct 25, 2010 5:06 am

olddog wrote:Its now six months since I built the original Magic Flute, it has been a spectacular build for me, giving a consistant 90ABV with a single run, potstill takeoff speeds, and retaining full flavor, and once heads and forshots are taken, will retain 90ABV until all hearts are taken. It has not been a one off fluke as other builders like Kentucky Shiner report similar results.
The Idea was to take a commercial concept and scale it down to be run as a single batch production from a keg boiler, and to be built with normal handi man tools like you can find in any home workshop. I built the flute using a hacksaw, 4 files, a Mapp torch, and a drill press, and I just used a cheap bending spring to form the pipework.
Since my build, other forum members have come up with new ideas which could make this column even better. I beleave the shotgun dephlagmater and valve plates just using copper rivets as KS has done is still within the capability of members with the normal home workshop tools, and could improve the design even further.
I have had thoughts about redesigning the head of the column, so the column is built in one piece with a drop in dephlagmater unit which requires a 4" tri-clamp to seal the whole assembly. The plate assembly could be attached to the base of the dephlagmater, so the whole plate assembly and dephlagmater could be removed for cleaning or changing the plate count. If this was done, the vapor takeoff would have to be moved from the top of the column as per the original Flute, to a side takeoff.
DEPHLAG ASSEMBLY.png

I hope this idea is some use to the Flute builders out there, I am amazed how many there are now.



OD


I love the way that when the hearts are finished your stream ( distillate ) will slow to only a few drops and if you wait it will just stop. Then like you said when you start pulling you tails in pot still mode, they are so compressed you actually get very little tails. These flutes do a wonderful job of separating the tails from your hearts.
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Re: FLUTE TALK

Postby Mr.Spooky » Mon Oct 25, 2010 5:33 am

here is how i mount and remove my "plate tree"... viewtopic.php?f=17&t=16805&start=180
also, within the "penny whistle" thread, i made a few mistakes as i went. i hope anyone doing this build can avoid making these same mistakes,,, such as this for example : viewtopic.php?f=17&t=16805&start=210
(first post applies here)
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Re: FLUTE TALK

Postby Kentucky shinner » Mon Oct 25, 2010 6:09 am

I think I like the idea of the removable dephlag. I just wonder what would be the best way to seal it up on the bottom when is slides in?
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Re: FLUTE TALK

Postby kenfyoozed » Mon Oct 25, 2010 7:44 am

I was thinking about the 4" tri clamps. What would keep you from having each plate as a seperate "unit", and attach each "unit" with tricalmps. This would make the column multiple parts so configuration could go from one plate"unit" to as many as you see fit. As long as you lined up each plate unit properly with the plat below it, it could work. It would add cost but would allow dissasemby for cleaning and also storage or hiding!
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Re: FLUTE TALK

Postby Kentucky shinner » Mon Oct 25, 2010 8:19 am

you could absolutely do that. It would be quite a bit more cost and the thing I personally don't like, it the much increased chances of leaks. But yes it would work and it might be what some would choose to do.
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Re: FLUTE TALK

Postby kenfyoozed » Mon Oct 25, 2010 8:39 am

Why would it increase the chance of leaks? the tri clamps?
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Re: FLUTE TALK

Postby Kentucky shinner » Mon Oct 25, 2010 8:54 am

Just more connections. I am sure if you used Teflon gaskets it would be fine... I just like few connections as possible.
Just my Opinion.
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Re: FLUTE TALK

Postby kenfyoozed » Mon Oct 25, 2010 9:06 am

oh ok, I think you would have to use the gaskets. My pot still is all tri clamp 2" untill the lieberg. Makes cleaning easy, just toss all parts in the dish washer!
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Re: FLUTE TALK

Postby olddog » Mon Oct 25, 2010 3:00 pm

Kentucky shinner wrote:I just wonder what would be the best way to seal it up on the bottom when is slides in?

You would not need to seal it at the bottom of the dephlagmater, if any vapor tried to bypass it by the slight gap between the wall of the dephlagmater and the column wall, it would automatically be condensed.



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Re: FLUTE TALK

Postby squidd » Mon Oct 25, 2010 5:31 pm

kenfyoozed wrote:I was thinking about the 4" tri clamps. What would keep you from having each plate as a seperate "unit", and attach each "unit" with tricalmps. This would make the column multiple parts so configuration could go from one plate"unit" to as many as you see fit. As long as you lined up each plate unit properly with the plat below it, it could work. It would add cost but would allow dissasemby for cleaning and also storage or hiding!


I had the same idea (RedDog thread, next page) although I initially I was going to use bolted flanges to assemble the sections. Tri Clamps would certainly be faster.

No seepage between plates and column walls, option to mix and match different types of plates.

I hope you build it first so I can copy.

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Re: FLUTE TALK

Postby Mr.Spooky » Mon Oct 25, 2010 5:38 pm

if you did your sections with 2 plates in each section, it would cut the connections in 1/2,,,,,,, or do a 3 plate sectoin and 2 / 2plate sections, then you could have a 7 plate option,, a 5 plate option,, a 4 plate option,, and a 2 plate option. with still, a max of 3 connections.... uuuuuhhhh did i get that right???
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Re: FLUTE TALK

Postby olddog » Mon Oct 25, 2010 5:52 pm

You can have the plate number option with the design at the start of this thread, with one 4"tri-clamp to hold the lid on the column, the dephlagmater and plate assembly could be removed from the top of the column. If you have the plates mounted on threaded rod(s) it would be simple to add or remove plates, yet keeping the integrity of the column with just one tri-clamp.



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Re: FLUTE TALK

Postby Mr.Spooky » Mon Oct 25, 2010 5:59 pm

olddog wrote:You can have the plate number option with the design at the start of this thread, with one 4"tri-clamp to hold the lid on the column, the dephlagmater and plate assembly could be removed from the top of the column. If you have the plates mounted on threaded rod(s) it would be simple to add or remove plates, yet keeping the integrity of the column with just one tri-clamp.



OD

thats true about the integraty,,, and keeping the thing plumb as well. on mine, between the 4" triclamp, and a few souldered joints, it was all i could do to keep the thing from looking as crooked as a coons dick.
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Re: FLUTE TALK

Postby myles » Tue Oct 26, 2010 3:39 am

OR you could just fit a drain with a valve onto each plate, so that you can disable the ones that you don't want to use on that run.

Image
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Re: FLUTE TALK

Postby ScottishBoy » Tue Oct 26, 2010 3:55 am

Just out of curiosity and such...

How much pressure gets generated inside the column, particulary toward the base? Im working on a modular version of this and need to know about the pressure.
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Re: FLUTE TALK

Postby Kentucky shinner » Tue Oct 26, 2010 4:31 am

myles wrote:OR you could just fit a drain with a valve onto each plate, so that you can disable the ones that you don't want to use on that run.

Image


I have been thinking about this exact set up. My problem is How would you seal the hole around your handle for disabling the plates. ( the stem from the plate through the tube) I have not come up with a good way to do this.. Maybe you have some ideas.
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Re: FLUTE TALK

Postby olddog » Tue Oct 26, 2010 4:58 am

You could use a needle valve, like used on a Bok.


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Re: FLUTE TALK

Postby myles » Tue Oct 26, 2010 5:23 am

Kentucky shinner wrote:I have been thinking about this exact set up. My problem is How would you seal the hole around your handle for disabling the plates. ( the stem from the plate through the tube) I have not come up with a good way to do this.. Maybe you have some ideas.


:? It is probably my drawing. It is suposed to represent a drain tube soldered to the plate. The drain passes through the column wall, soldered again, then to a gate valve and back into the column through the wall.

For a small column 1/2" tube and valve would probably be OK, both to bypass the plate and to use when flushing out the column from top to bottom.

It would be easiest to do with fixed plates, but with a screw connection between the drain and plate you COULD make the plates removeable.
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Re: FLUTE TALK

Postby Usge » Tue Oct 26, 2010 6:49 am

I would assume that if it was to function as a plate drain...it would not need the fine, continuous control of a needle valve....it would just need to be fully open, or closed. Unless you wanted to use it to control how much liquid remained on the plate. But, you already have things inherent in the plate that does that....i think?
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Re: FLUTE TALK

Postby myles » Tue Oct 26, 2010 7:30 am

Usge wrote:I would assume that if it was to function as a plate drain...it would not need the fine, continuous control of a needle valve....it would just need to be fully open, or closed. Unless you wanted to use it to control how much liquid remained on the plate. But, you already have things inherent in the plate that does that....i think?


This is correct, the drain is either open or closed. As for the depth on the plate, there is usually an overflow down to the next plate that should sort the maximum depth on the plate.
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