FLUTE TALK

Vapor, Liquid or Cooling Management. Flutes, plates, etc.

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Swedish Pride
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Re: FLUTE TALK

Post by Swedish Pride » Wed May 18, 2016 11:33 pm

Jimbo wrote: But vodka producers still use plates. :wave: :wink: :lol: I know I know, they do it with 30 plates. But still interesting. If a different type of refractionating column was better for neutral, then why dont they just build a bigass one of them, CM, VM or whatever. Plated flutes are damned expensive. Must be a reason?
EG and many of the aussie crew reckons 6 plates + 2' of column packed with lava stone ( should be easy to find in Iceland :P) is the bees knees for vodka.
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Re: FLUTE TALK

Post by thecroweater » Thu May 19, 2016 2:48 am

4 plates works 5 plates let's ya go a bit quicker
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Re: FLUTE TALK

Post by cranky » Thu May 19, 2016 4:27 am

I knew I'd catch shit for that, of course I don't think you get the best vodka in a single run and if you are going to add 2ft of packed section above the plates, you might as well add an additional 3ft instead of the plates and just run a full packed CM. In my opinion trying to make a neutral with a flute is like trying to drive a nail with a crescent wrench, sure you can do it but a hammer will do it better. Course like everybody else I'm making what I like and some like their vodkas with flavor, much like Jimbo's friend I think it should have little to no flavor.

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Re: FLUTE TALK

Post by thecroweater » Thu May 19, 2016 4:53 am

Well Cranky on that we disagree and not by a bit, plate rectified spirit feed to a packed section makes an excellent neutral. That is to say it produces a far superior product in a fraction of the time. A better analogy might be a nail gun compared with ya ye ole reflux hammer, call it cheating if ya like but a growing number of commercial ginger makers are taking this path here :thumbup:
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Re: FLUTE TALK

Post by raketemensch » Thu May 19, 2016 12:51 pm

Hound Dog wrote:I was going to ask, how tall of a packed section do you think you would need over three plates for neutral vodka?
From what I've read (i.e. not personal experience), 24" packed section will do it. I'll hopefully get around to trying it this winter.

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Re: FLUTE TALK

Post by bentstick » Thu May 19, 2016 1:57 pm

raketemensch wrote:
Hound Dog wrote:I was going to ask, how tall of a packed section do you think you would need over three plates for neutral vodka?
From what I've read (i.e. not personal experience), 24" packed section will do it. I'll hopefully get around to trying it this winter.

Works awesome over 5 plates :thumbup: and thats my experince,hope you do rake I do not think you will be disappointed!!! Cheers
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Re: FLUTE TALK

Post by cranky » Thu May 19, 2016 2:18 pm

thecroweater wrote:Well Cranky on that we disagree and not by a bit, plate rectified spirit feed to a packed section makes an excellent neutral. That is to say it produces a far superior product in a fraction of the time. A better analogy might be a nail gun compared with ya ye ole reflux hammer, call it cheating if ya like but a growing number of commercial ginger makers are taking this path here :thumbup:
Far superior to what?
If I wanted to do it in one run I'm sure my CM would do it every bit as fast as a flute with packed section. I don't like to screw around only to get a few bottles of neutral, I like getting 16 drinkable bottles in a single run. 6-7 hours from switch on to switch off is plenty fast for me, any faster and I couldn't keep up. I personally think of the CM as the nail gun and the flute as the hammer if you want that analogy. And we can certainly agree to disagree on this one, as I said it is my own opinion your welcome to believe whatever you want.

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Re: FLUTE TALK

Post by Hound Dog » Thu May 19, 2016 2:54 pm

Didn't mean to get you guys riled up! I used to run a single plate bubble ball under my column. When I did a rebuild I removed that and put in an 18 inch section of column. I don't believe it ran as well as it did with the bubbler. Now theory will say that you have more plates in the packed section I added but I don't follow the science, just my personal results. Now I have built a three plate section that I am not even sure I have enough boiler or power to run properly, but wondered if I used a piece of 24 - 30 inch pipe I have and soldered on some flanges if it would make a good neutral when I wanted. Just experimenting.
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Re: FLUTE TALK

Post by googe » Thu May 19, 2016 3:01 pm

I've always struggled with the wanting super clean neutral, I thought vodka had to have some body to it, not sure that's the right word. Ive found no difference in using super clean neutral to a not so clean neutral, in the use of flavoring, infusing etc etc. do people drink it as is?, thats why they want it clean?. I find packed column neutral kind of boring, no complexity. Were as run through plates and packed I get a more complex and versatile, I can use it for flavoring/infusing etc or drink it was a mixer. We're all.different.
It's well known that a plate or so will help a packed section run sweet hound dog :thumbup: . Give it a go if you have the gear, only way you'll satisfy your self :thumbup:
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Re: FLUTE TALK

Post by stony2289 » Thu May 19, 2016 3:35 pm

Well this thread convinced me, I am going to make eight plates and a 600mm packed section in 4" :)

Got parts turning up today fingers crossed !!!!

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Re: FLUTE TALK

Post by cranky » Thu May 19, 2016 3:51 pm

I like my neutral neutral because when I flavor something it is not covering up or competing with an existing flavor. My wife has a very sensitive palate.

Hound Dog, Getting people riled up is something I seem to do far too often :roll: I know the majority of flute people are pretty fanatical about their flutes and my personal opinion is not shared by them, but what can you expect by people who think a crescent wrench is really a nail gun? :moresarcasm: In truth if you have the pipe, put it on top and see how you like it you can always make another section to make a full packed CM at another time if what it produces is too flavorful for your liking.

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Re: FLUTE TALK

Post by stony2289 » Thu May 19, 2016 3:59 pm

cranky wrote:I like my neutral neutral because when I flavor something it is not covering up or competing with an existing flavor. My wife has a very sensitive palate.

Hound Dog, Getting people riled up is something I seem to do far too often :roll: I know the majority of flute people are pretty fanatical about their flutes and my personal opinion is not shared by them, but what can you expect by people who think a crescent wrench is really a nail gun? :moresarcasm: In truth if you have the pipe, put it on top and see how you like it you can always make another section to make a full packed CM at another time if what it produces is too flavorful for your liking.
Live and let live I say, you are the one drinking your product so it only has to please one person eh?

Oh, and the other half :)

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Re: FLUTE TALK

Post by Hound Dog » Thu May 19, 2016 4:45 pm

Swedish Pride wrote:EG and many of the aussie crew reckons 6 plates + 2' of column packed with lava stone ( should be easy to find in Iceland :P) is the bees knees for vodka.
thecroweater wrote:plate rectified spirit feed to a packed section makes an excellent neutral.
bentstick wrote:Works awesome over 5 plates :thumbup: and thats my experince,hope you do rake I do not think you will be disappointed!!! Cheers
googe wrote:It's well known that a plate or so will help a packed section run sweet hound dog :thumbup: . Give it a go if you have the gear, only way you'll satisfy your self :thumbup:
cranky wrote: In truth if you have the pipe, put it on top and see how you like it you can always make another section to make a full packed CM at another time if what it produces is too flavorful for your liking.
Well looks like a flood of good advice. I have a couple of ferrules I can throw on a section of pipe calling my name in the garage. I'll fill it with marbles and give her a go. I appreciate the input! :thumbup:
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Re: FLUTE TALK

Post by thecroweater » Thu May 19, 2016 5:54 pm

C'Mon Crank difference of opinion is not "riled up" fully respect your right to be wrong even if I do feel compelled to correct you :twisted:
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Re: FLUTE TALK

Post by cranky » Thu May 19, 2016 6:10 pm

thecroweater wrote:C'Mon Crank difference of opinion is not "riled up" fully respect your right to be wrong even if I do feel compelled to correct you :twisted:
And I respect your right to be wrong as well :thumbup:

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Re: FLUTE TALK

Post by frodo » Fri May 20, 2016 4:26 am

Kentucky shinner wrote:
myles wrote:OR you could just fit a drain with a valve onto each plate, so that you can disable the ones that you don't want to use on that run.

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I have been thinking about this exact set up. My problem is How would you seal the hole around your handle for disabling the plates. ( the stem from the plate through the tube) I have not come up with a good way to do this.. Maybe you have some ideas.
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Re: FLUTE TALK

Post by stony2289 » Fri May 20, 2016 5:23 am

frodo wrote:
Kentucky shinner wrote:
myles wrote:OR you could just fit a drain with a valve onto each plate, so that you can disable the ones that you don't want to use on that run.

Image
I have been thinking about this exact set up. My problem is How would you seal the hole around your handle for disabling the plates. ( the stem from the plate through the tube) I have not come up with a good way to do this.. Maybe you have some ideas.
Honestly? Why would you bother? You could just make a moular plate config that would do all those things.

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Re: FLUTE TALK

Post by stony2289 » Fri May 20, 2016 5:24 am

+ if you are changing shit half run, then you will not find it easy to do again. Opps....

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Re: FLUTE TALK

Post by frodo » Fri May 20, 2016 6:31 am

stony2289 wrote:+ if you are changing shit half run, then you will not find it easy to do again. Opps....
LOL Not me,,,,I just saw a solution to a question,

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Re: FLUTE TALK

Post by raketemensch » Wed Jun 15, 2016 6:20 pm

So, how do y'all do all-feints runs? Obviously, I won't bother with reflux, but should I pare down to one plate? Maybe 2 or 3?

I've got a boiler's worth of UJ, SF, AG and banana brandy leftovers that I'm dying to run.

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Re: FLUTE TALK

Post by googe » Wed Jun 15, 2016 6:53 pm

Why wouldn't you bother with reflux rake?.
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FLUTE TALK

Post by raketemensch » Wed Jun 15, 2016 6:59 pm

googe wrote:Why wouldn't you bother with reflux rake?.
Well, starting at 40%, pretty much everything will be at aging strength.

Then again, compression would still be nice, I guess.

I guess the real answer would be "I dunno." :)

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Re: FLUTE TALK

Post by FullySilenced » Thu Jun 16, 2016 6:21 am

If your making neutral... put all your plates in refux it hard take it off at moderate speeds in fairly small jars...

You may want to bring it down to 30% or maybe 20% if you want to a cleaner product.
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Re: FLUTE TALK

Post by raketemensch » Thu Jun 16, 2016 6:58 am

I'm treating it more like a spirit run, I want to hang onto as much flavor as possible.

So I guess fewer plates, and I'll do the usual run method (RC turned up enough to collect fores in slow drops, then turned down to collect my steadiest stream).

I was just picturing the commercial setup, where (from what I understand) they don't use reflux and do strip/spirit runs through plated columns.

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Re: FLUTE TALK

Post by FullySilenced » Thu Jun 16, 2016 8:41 am

All those different types of booze mixed together and you want flavor... ?

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Re: FLUTE TALK

Post by raketemensch » Thu Jun 16, 2016 10:04 am

FullySilenced wrote:All those different types of booze mixed together and you want flavor... ?
Yes, I want a shot of sweet feed banana corn barley wheat.

If it sucks, I can always re-run it, but I have yet to hear a story of someone who didn't love the weird blend from an all-feints run.

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Re: FLUTE TALK

Post by WTD » Thu Sep 29, 2016 12:20 am

Soo many pages i couldnt possibly go through the mall right now. :shock:

Im making a 4" flute with 4 plates already made and i dont want to use a packed section like some people push here in Australia so im going for 10 plates (have material to make 6 more plates) for my vodka. This is all over an 8" inline thumper also.
I will run two elements with control over it up to 4800w

My question is what do people think about speed for a vodka run with 10 plates (forgetting the thumper for now) with 4.8kW at my disposal on a 50L keg. What speed do you guys think i can achieve without smearing. People use 5 plates here in Aus and a packed section for vodka/nuetral and go 2.5L hour but im hoping to go much faster with more plates and i will most likely always use low wines for vodka.

would 10 plates out do a 5 plate flute and 500mm packed section? I figure commercial guys use plates so why not me too.

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Re: FLUTE TALK

Post by thecroweater » Thu Sep 29, 2016 2:25 am

A friend of mine tried that, there is a thread around here on it. The short answer is no 10 plates makes a kind of vodka but not a nuetral. Someone brighter than me could probably chime in and say how many theoretical plates a 4" 5 or 600 mom packed section is likely to be, I can tell ya its more than 5 by a lot :thumbup:
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Re: FLUTE TALK

Post by sparky marky » Thu Sep 29, 2016 2:52 am

I run a modular 4 inch 6 plate column. When I want vodka I do it from all grain barley/wheat mix that gets stripped.

Then the low wines go through 6 plates quite fast and I cut the tails and dump them in feints container since the tails are where all the big flavours are.

I then re run the heads and hearts slower (3 liters per hour)

The result is something vodka - ish but honestly it's got way too much flavour.

If I was running 10 plates plus thumper like you intend I'd expect a strip and 2 runs at 4 liters per hour to get me where I want to be... just my 2 pence.

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Re: FLUTE TALK

Post by WTD » Thu Sep 29, 2016 12:51 pm

Cheerrs guys.

Yea all of them will be stripped first and it will be 10 plus the thumper.

I have seen a few commercial guys in aus use 10 plates on single runs. i guess i can always add 150mm of packing on top just to.remove the last bit of flavour. i read someone say 500mm of packing was worth 3-4 plates. this true?
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